Tariffs - The Elephant in the Room (1 Viewer)

[Terp152]

"Do you feel that MFR's like us or dealers should just try to absorb the costs, which realistically probably isn't 100% possible?"

Reaching back many decades to my Econ 101 class, you'll charge what the market will bear. When people stop buying you'll know you've reached that point.

 

[Warrior]

Well, the good news is toy soldiers are a 100% discretionary item. We don’t eat, drive or take them as medicine. Nobody must have them. Therefore if tariffs drive prices to unaffordable levels, would be buyers can freely choose to abstain. If then there is a resulting significant slow down in demand, the makers / re-sellers will adjust and seek a new equilibrium price / value relationship that earns a return and is acceptable to the customer.

As a full time dealer for close to 30 years, I hear this every time there is an economic downturn or a toy soldier price increase "I can't eat these or heat my house with them, I don't "need" them, they are not food, clothing or shelter, so I will stop buying."

And yet, the hobby continues, people for the most part keep buying.

How many matte finish manufacturers have gone under in the past 20 years? How many dealers who have not retired on their own free will or sadly passed away have "gone out of business"...........................

The hobby is a great source of comfort for people, for most of them, it's something they did in their childhood and continue into adulthood, when times are tough/life gets bumpy, we turn to our soldiers for comfort and to take our mind off of our troubles, when my Dad died in 2017 and my Mom died in 2024, thank God I had the hobby to turn to in order to keep what's left of my sanity.

We are a small community, but me having skin in the game since childhood has allowed/blessed me to meet literally thousands of people that aside from the toy soldier hobby, I never would have met, I have dealer friends and customer friends that I will remain in touch with long after I retire from the business (which God willing, won't be anytime soon, I'm having **** tons of fun with this, I love every second of it).

I'm having lunch on Saturday with a local customer of mine here in MA; all we do while having lunch is laugh our asses off, I consider him much more than a customer, he's a friend and I am honored that he calls me one as well, I also have another local customer who comes here once a month, buys toy soldiers from me and then we go to dinner and have a great time, he's a former educator and a veteran of the Vietnam War and he knows a lot about many things and is a pleasure to listen to. Another member here is a person I consider a second Father/mentor, he scrapes me off the ceiling when I need it, a true friend.

I could go on and on about others, but I digress.

Also, good to know in your opinion, if there is a slowdown in demand, dealers and manufacturers will then have to set new prices/profit levels that are "acceptable" to the customer.

I think I'll try that at the Porsche dealership tomorrow; "Here's my card, shoot me an email when you come to your senses and price these at an acceptable level to me."


That's some solid thinking, it's worth a shot.

 

[Rutledge]

As a full time dealer for close to 30 years, I hear this every time there is an economic downturn or a toy soldier price increase "I can't eat these or heat my house with them, I don't "need" them, they are not food, clothing or shelter, so I will stop buying."

And yet, the hobby continues, people for the most part keep buying.

How many matte finish manufacturers have gone under in the past 20 years? How many dealers who have not retired on their own free will or sadly passed away have "gone out of business"...........................

The hobby is a great source of comfort for people, for most of them, it's something they did in their childhood and continue into adulthood, when times are tough/life gets bumpy, we turn to our soldiers for comfort and to take our mind off of our troubles, when my Dad died in 2017 and my Mom died in 2024, thank God I had the hobby to turn to in order to keep what's left of my sanity.

We are a small community, but me having skin in the game since childhood has allowed/blessed me to meet literally thousands of people that aside from the toy soldier hobby, I never would have met, I have dealer friends and customer friends that I will remain in touch with long after I retire from the business (which God willing, won't be anytime soon, I'm having **** tons of fun with this, I love every second of it).

I'm having lunch on Saturday with a local customer of mine here in MA; all we do while having lunch is laugh our asses off, I consider him much more than a customer, he's a friend and I am honored that he calls me one as well, I also have another local customer who comes here once a month, buys toy soldiers from me and then we go to dinner and have a great time, he's a former educator and a veteran of the Vietnam War and he knows a lot about many things and is a pleasure to listen to. Another member here is a person I consider a second Father/mentor, he scrapes me off the ceiling when I need it, a true friend.

I could go on and on about others, but I digress.

Also, good to know in your opinion, if there is a slowdown in demand, dealers and manufacturers will then have to set new prices/profit levels that are "acceptable" to the customer.

I think I'll try that at the Porsche dealership tomorrow; "Here's my card, shoot me an email when you come to your senses and price these at an acceptable level to me."


That's some solid thinking, it's worth a shot.

Oh please. You ever heard of sales cuts / incentives, bargaining, “no interest loans”, etc etc? That’s how Porsche deals with slow sales/inventory backlogs. It’s business 101, not my opinion.

Look, I have customers and yes we’re friendly/friends. Again, business 101. I understand you’ve got a lot more skin in the toy soldier business than I. Duh. But the fact is it’s not a critical need for 99.8% of people. Thus there is high elasticity in demand ( at least presumably- I haven’t seen studies) - but price increases will impact demand. What changes that brings about, if any, on the dealer / manufacturer side, who knows? But if demand is severely impacted the supply side will eventually adjust.

 

[Warrior]

Oh please. You ever heard of sales cuts / incentives, bargaining, “no interest loans”, etc etc? That’s how Porsche deals with slow sales/inventory backlogs. It’s business 101, not my opinion.

Look, I have customers and yes we’re friendly/friends. Again, business 101. I understand you’ve got a lot more skin in the toy soldier business than I. Duh. But the fact is it’s not a critical need for 99.8% of people. Thus there is high elasticity in demand ( at least presumably- I haven’t seen studies) - but price increases will impact demand. What changes that brings about, if any, on the dealer / manufacturer side, who knows? But if demand is severely impacted the supply side will eventually adjust.

Aside from food, clothing, shelter and prescription drugs, nothing is a critical need.

The prices on the goods we import from China are going to rise dramatically thanks to this idiotic, totally misguided tariff.

And that includes food, clothing, shelter and prescription drugs.

Unlike other industries, toy soldier dealers do not have the option of cutting prices; any price cuts have to come from the manufacturers.

As time has gone on and this hobby has seen contraction, manufacturers have adjusted production levels/dealers have adjusted stock levels.

Price cuts have not been on the table, as in ever.

 

[Rutledge]

Aside from food, clothing, shelter and prescription drugs, nothing is a critical need.

The prices on the goods we import from China are going to rise dramatically thanks to this idiotic, totally misguided tariff.

And that includes food, clothing, shelter and prescription drugs.

Unlike other industries, toy soldier dealers do not have the option of cutting prices; any price cuts have to come from the manufacturers.

As time has gone on and this hobby has seen contraction, manufacturers have adjusted production levels/dealers have adjusted stock levels.

Price cuts have not been on the table, as in ever.

I’m not arguing for price reductions. I just think they can be in the mix, as with any business. Heck, we offer them in certain situations.

Besides, FL conducted a massive sale on overstocks not long ago. KC has had sales. So we know they’re possible.

 

[Warrior]

I’m not arguing for price reductions. I just think they can be in the mix, as with any business. Heck, we offer them in certain situations.

Besides, FL conducted a massive sale on overstocks not long ago. KC has had sales. So we know they’re possible.

The First Legion sale had nothing to do with overstocks; not my place to state the reason, but it had nothing to do with that.

And yes, K & C runs sales, but that came from the manufacturer, not the retailers.

 

[kingbabymeat]

Is First Legion planning on another sale?

 

[Rutledge]

I understand that TS manufacturers do not permit discounting among their dealers. Many businesses impose similar constraints to maintain dealer fairness/competitiveness, as well financial stability and brand name/image.

And let’s be clear. Most of the manufacturing is outsourced to third parties by the larger distributors, adding yet another wrinkle.

That said, they don’t control the secondary matket, nor can they prohibit the entrance of new competitors or the emergence of new technologies. The toy soldier business has its particular features, as any business segment does. But ultimately its subject to the same basic laws of supply and demand that apply to any all businesses within a free market.

 

[Warrior]

That said, they don’t control the secondary matket, nor can they prohibit the entrance of new competitors or the emergence of new technologies. The toy soldier business has its particular features, as any business segment does. But ultimately its subject to the same basic laws of supply and demand that apply to any all businesses within a free market.

Without getting into specifics, there is some control by manufacturers on the secondary market, there are also "issues" that come up when a dealer of "Brand A" starts to carry "Brand B" product.

Again, no disrespect, but you really don't know how this business actually works, just like I could not speak to the specifics of the restaurant business, the car business, the clothing business or any other business aside from the one I am in, the toy soldier business.

I used to be in the fitness industry prior to getting into the toy soldier business; things that applied to that ****show of a business do not apply in the toy soldier business, I had to reinvent myself when I got into this business.

Rules/procedures/concepts that work for one business do not work for others, you can't paint with a broad brush.

I've had dinner/drinks with my accountant and my attorney and we've discussed this business; both are always intrigued by the ins and outs of this business.

This is all I'm saying on this matter, let's get back to discussing the tariffs.

Speaking of which, I'm hearing rumors Trump plans to bump the Chinese tariffs come April 2nd; if they land anywhere beyond where they are now (20%), it's goodnight Irene.

10% was bad yet somewhat tolerable, 20% is creeping into "are you ****ting me" territory; above and beyond that is..................

Not good.

 

[TSCollector]

Oh please. You ever heard of sales cuts / incentives, bargaining, “no interest loans”, etc etc? That’s how Porsche deals with slow sales/inventory backlogs. It’s business 101, not my opinion.

Look, I have customers and yes we’re friendly/friends. Again, business 101. I understand you’ve got a lot more skin in the toy soldier business than I. Duh. But the fact is it’s not a critical need for 99.8% of people. Thus there is high elasticity in demand ( at least presumably- I haven’t seen studies) - but price increases will impact demand. What changes that brings about, if any, on the dealer / manufacturer side, who knows? But if demand is severely impacted the supply side will eventually adjust.

If you know any Porsche dealers dealing with sales or inventory backlogs that’s the exception. Most can’t meet the demand. For example, getting a 911 the way you want it could take a year or longer.

 

[Rutledge]

If you know any Porsche dealers dealing with sales or inventory backlogs that’s the exception. Most can’t meet the demand. For example, getting a 911 the way you want it could take a year or longer.

Yes, a good friend works as a dealer rep for Porsche. It’s US headquarters is in Atlanta. I’m always impressed when he tells me how robust their sales are. My dad and wife recently traded up from their small SUV Macan to the bigger one Cayenne. They love it.

That said, Porsche was just a generic example of how any business might respond to slowing demand.

It’s interesting because I make my living evaluating business industries and models for invest-ability. I certainly don’t pretend to understand the Ins and Outs and nuances of all those businesses, some of which can have thousands of employees and billions in sales. However I’m fairly confident I possess enough training, education and experience to do my job in a competent and adept manner.

 

[Panzer ace]

The forum has clearly done a great job of avoiding politics in their responses to this thread.

 

[paxtoysoldier]

The forum has clearly done a great job of avoiding politics in their responses to this thread.

These are hot issues now. I thank Matt of FL and Julie for allowing a conversation. It's up to us to keep it civil.
Best Wishes for the Forum and the Hobby,
Paddy

 

[BHogan]

The current administration is unhinged with tariffs, alignment of the US with dictatorships, threats of annexation, etc. Everything will get more expensive not better for ordinary people on both sides of the border. Relations between the US and Canada are at their lowest point since the War of 1812. Look how that turned out for the Yanks...

Brendan

 

[FirstLegion]

Start to think about manufacturing in the US.....

Haha - we'd be selling $400 figures.....Believe me, as i sit in China right now incredibly jet lagged, i'd love to MFR in the USA. I would consider Russia, which i think actually has a lower wage rate than China right now, but there is that other pesky problem there.....Sigh.

Guys, no politics please.

 

[FirstLegion]

We are formulating our plan to address not only the Tariffs, but the general high price of life these days. Someone pointed out, these are 100% discretionary. That is a point not lost on us and we are planning on taking steps to address it to hopefully the benefit of all. It just takes a bit of time.....patience.

 

[Soldierboy]

If I see a figure I like, I won't let tariffs or anything else stop me from getting it!

 

[Gebhard]

Very surprising how everyone turned so quickly on the good ol USA.

Politics aside please try to remember who fought and died on foreign soil to help save the world not once but twice, it's our family members for heaven's sake.

Please have some patients and let us get our house in order, it's currently totally out of control.

I think we should all just pump the breaks a bit and let things play out, let the negotiation tactics of our current President (love him or hate him) take place and then see what happens.

If things continue as is and the US does nothing aside from being way beyond bankrupt, both we and our grandchildren will all be in the very same boat again together wondering what the hell happen after the smoke clears and the bodies are buried.

I for the record have no intension of learning Chinese and would suffer and do without a lot before I help them build the world largest Military.

Personally, I don't trust them anymore then I trust the Russians.

Their governments that is, the people of every country all want only the same things to live in peace and to be able to provide for their families.

We will get there we always do.

 

[tdubel]

Here is a comment that both sides of this issue should read and read with extreme understanding. It is one thing to talk politics in a civil matter no matter what side you are on. However, there are several threads and several posts here that go beyond that. Humor aside, the keyboard does a great job of hiding humor. Talking about the issue is one thing, bringing in outside innuendo, personal political opinions about a President or news organization or other poster is another.

Keep the lightning rod posts off this thread or you will soon see a zap of the entire discussion. I am sitting in Los Angeles with the owner of this forum and I can tell you she has better things to do than referee the sandbox.

TD