The 2006 New York Symposium (March 10-12) (1 Viewer)

[binder001]

Thanks Shannon, this is the summation that I've been waiting to hear.

Of course, being me, I'm, excited about a new Stuart (I'm hoping for an M5A1 light tank, or an M8 howitzer carriage) and the ambulance Jeep. Also, I'm interested to see what comes out in the BoB line for US figures. Generally, pretty good news for the WW2 line.

Thanks for the update,

Gary

 

[OzDigger]

Track detail: Considering that K & C numbers are to low for economic diecast production of an entire tank, the use of diecast metal or similar material for increased detail of tracks/road wheels appears a good compromise. I hope it occurs as I know the current lack of tank track detail has put off many of the more discerning collectors.

Packaging: Wire ties and plastic are more appropriate for cheaper products imo, and the ties are likely to cut into diecast metal pieces and rub off paint. The new packaging is unlikely to have a significant negative impact on their value. However I feel it may put off some collectors, especially those that are preparred to pay more to have their pieces well presented.

Modular Squares: These have been around for many years and are a popular method with a wide spectrum of hobby collectors, therefore their popularity as a K & C item is assured.

The Rommel-Greif set: Hmmm, he could have sold 1,500 could he. This is what I meant in my popularity v production number thread.

 

[jazzeum]

Track detail: Considering that K & C numbers are to low for economic diecast production of an entire tank, the use of diecast metal or similar material for increased detail of tracks/road wheels appears a good compromise. I hope it occurs as I know the current lack of tank track detail has put off many of the more discerning collectors.

More discerning collectors? Like who? His tanks sell out. That's rather condescending on your part. What are these so-called discerning collectors purchasing? Die-cast? You can't get more discerning collectors than the King and Country clientele. I didn't see anything to suggest the use of die cast. He has reservations about anything other than what he's using. Figarti has had trouble with their tracks and in the Honey nothing moves.

The Rommel-Greif set: Hmmm, he could have sold 1,500 could he. This is what I meant in my popularity v production number thread.

I'm not sure what you meant but as previous posts from Louis and me have made clear once he announced it at 750, he couldn't change the numbers. He didn't anticipate the demand but didn't seem that perturbed that he didn't make 1,500.

 

[OzDigger]

More discerning collectors? Like who? His tanks sell out. That's rather condescending on your part. What are these so-called discerning collectors purchasing? Die-cast? You can't get more discerning collectors than the King and Country clientele. I didn't see anything to suggest the use of die cast. He has reservations about anything other than what he's using. Figarti has had trouble with their tracks and in the Honey nothing moves.

More discerning collectors in this case, the definition varies, are those that desire accurate detail on vehicles which polystone by it's nature cannot produce alone. Like who? One example being the many thousands of plastic armoured vehicle modelers that occassionally buy the better detailed diecast tanks, such as the recent 1/35 scale Dragon Tiger. I have seen the response of modelers to a display of King and Country tanks at a hobby fair, and it wasn't positive I assure you - they were showing their discernment.

The pieces sell out because there are more people wanting them than there are made. And as I have said before this method does no favours for collectors, or King and Country. It only helps people that resell K & C products to make a quick buck. Perhaps you/they are free to do so, but don't expect to receive any praise for it, especially from the collector that missed out. I thought this forum was to assist fellow collectors obtaining their desired piece(s) at a reasonable price, sadly I mostly see the opposite

The use of metal was suggested at the bottom of post #78, were it mentioned they would consider metal if it works out for other manufacturers. Personally, I'd be satisfied with better detailed tracks/road wheels etc no matter what material they are made from, and most collectors really wouldn't expect them to move. Most people seemed happy with the honey.

I'm not sure what you meant but as previous posts from Louis and me have made clear once he announced it at 750, he couldn't change the numbers. He didn't anticipate the demand but didn't seem that perturbed that he didn't make 1,500.

Proactive research should determine the number produced, not the reactive back-stop measures such as reissues, with some changes, that has occured in the past. It worries me that K & C didn't anticipate the demand for that set. Perhaps they should pay more attention to collectors suggestions, or at least carry out more market research.

 

[panda1gen]

Ozdigger

Andy showed us photos of his new panther to come out later this year perhaps? You might not be disappointed.

 

[jazzeum]

More discerning collectors in this case, the definition varies, are those that desire accurate detail on vehicles which polystone by it's nature cannot produce alone. Like who? One example being the many thousands of plastic armoured vehicle modelers that occassionally buy the better detailed diecast tanks, such as the recent 1/35 scale Dragon Tiger. I have seen the response of modelers to a display of King and Country tanks at a hobby fair, and it wasn't positive I assure you - they were showing their discernment.

I think the detail on these are quite superb. I don't frankly think you can compare plastic to metal. Different classes. Plastic models don't necessarily appeal to metal collectors and vice versa. No offense to plastic collectors because I count some of them as my friends but as between plastic and polystone, I much prefer a polystone vehicle.

The pieces sell out because there are more people wanting them than there are made. And as I have said before this method does no favours for collectors, or King and Country. It only helps people that resell K & C products to make a quick buck. Perhaps you/they are free to do so, but don't expect to receive any praise for it, especially from the collector that missed out. I thought this forum was to assist fellow collectors obtaining their desired piece(s) at a reasonable price, sadly I mostly see the opposite

That is not necessarily so. WS 43, the Wittman Tiger, was made in profuse amounts, almost 2,000. And the runs on the other tanks have been quite high. It's only the Strictly Limited pieces that fit your statement. The other tanks don't. There are profits to be made on the earlier pieces because the collector base was quite small then. The AK Tigers are out there in plentiful supply and when retired will not fetch inordinately high prices. The Wittman Tiger, for example, breaks a bit over a $100 but that's it.

The use of metal was suggested at the bottom of post #78, were it mentioned they would consider metal if it works out for other manufacturers. Personally, I'd be satisfied with better detailed tracks/road wheels etc no matter what material they are made from, and most collectors really wouldn't expect them to move. Most people seemed happy with the honey.

Andy believes in the tried and true. These tracks have been good to him and unless the other manufacturers can show consistent success, why change?

Proactive research should determine the number produced, not the reactive back-stop measures such as reissues, with some changes, that has occured in the past. It worries me that K & C didn't anticipate the demand for that set. Perhaps they should pay more attention to collectors suggestions, or at least carry out more market research.

You could be right here but you're not talking about huge companies here that can go out and do market research. That costs money and that would have to be factored into the ultimate price of an item (i.e., overhead).

 

[UK_BOD]

Hi,

Was very interested in Shannon's comment about there being about 2-4,000 collectors in the US alone and would applaud K&C's intent to increase advertising. Not only would this bring in more collectors for K&C but in the long run filter down into the smaller companies, making the whole hobby much more vibrant.

So if there are 2-4000 in the US, that would probably mean 400-800 in the UK. With the UK show in December attracting over a 1,000 people and possibly more next week? The hobby seems to be in an excellent state.

Interested in the "metal" cycle-combo, will this be something thet K&C are looking to in the future?

Anything yet on the possibility of doing single/double figure sets for the DD and WS seies?

I collected all the AK, and said I wasn't going to collect the 8th Army, but I was wrong. I have the breaking strain of a KitKat.

Whose going to London next week? See you there - I'll be the one with a rucksack, a cricket bag and multiple carrier bags. Can't stand this internet shopping - love to buy on the day.

I do hope that the two new series are not going to be one's that I'm interested in.

Rgds

Andy

 

[desk11desk12]

I own probably about 90%+ of the WWII figures, artillery and vehicles that KC has produced over the last 2-3 years. I will continue to happily buy more of them because you can’t beat the overall value you get with KC as measured by aesthetic beauty, resale value and they just look cooool.

With few exceptions, (Winter Tiger, Priest, Grille, STUG Limited Edition), I don’t own most of the KC tanks. I like the detail offered by the FOV and the recent Figarti tanks more than the KC tanks and tracked vehicles; specifically the tracks themselves and some other minor details as well.

Andy has said recently that he is concerned with the durability of the new track manufacturing process offered by other companies lately. He may be right, if he isn’t, he’ll change or figure out something better to “leap frog’ his competition eventually.

Let the market (buyers and collectors) dictate their future releases. Until then, I will enjoy my KC WWII soldiers, vehicles and artillery along side my FOV and Figarti tanks in dioramas.

Keep collecting and having fun,

Carlos

 

[Louis Badolato]

Guys,

First of all, as much as I love King & Country, I agree with the comments about their armored vehicles, particularly the trouble with the detail of the tracks. K&C used to produce beautiful hand carved wood and metal armor, with hinged opening hatches which, unfortunately, retailed for around $380 per vehicle. Andy decided to change to polystone (over my repeated vigorous objections) because he (correctly) believed that he could produce a tank with a crew for less than $100, and that this would substantially increase his collector base.

At the time, there were competitors such as Heco (tin) and Trophy (die cast) producing vehicles in the $500+ range, and Andy believed the more affordable polystone vehicles in combination with superiorly sculpted matt painted figures would capture more of the collector's dollars and dramatically increase the relative popularity of K&C. I (incorrectly) argued that the discerning toy soldier collector would always prefer to spend more money on the better product. The dramatic increase in K&C sales worldwide which occurred virtually immediately upon the advent of the polystone vehicles proved Andy right.

However, I agree that Figarti and (assuming they can solve the breakage in shipping problems) Honour Bound make a much better looking armored vehicle in the the same price range as K&C's present polystone production, and I hope that Andy will respond by adopting some of the elements of their production to make tank which is both superior in appearance and affordable. With the increase in the advertising budget, such an improvement could only assist in again substantially increasing K&C's collector base.

Lets hope that Andy makes a product that can please all our rather "discerning" tastes! -Louis

 

[jazzeum]

I don't agree with the comments about the quality of the armored vehicles, except for the tracks. While the wooden vehicles are very, very nice (and I can only dream about having them), as far as detail, some of the more recent issues have made improvements. For example, the Churchill and the Sherman (US or British) are some of the nicest tanks he's ever produced and the detail is outstanding. I'm not going to comment on Heco and Trophy tanks as I don't know them that well.

It's hard to compare Honour Bound and Figarti to K & C because you can't put one tank side by side with another and say one is better. K & C did make a Stuart but certainly not up to today's standards. K & C's old Panthers can't similarly be compared to what Honour Bound has coming out and while we've all seen pictures of the HBs we need to look at them up close and personal. A truer test will be when we have both Panthers side by side and the K & C Stuart side by side with the Figarti Stuart later this year. From the photos I've seen of the new K & C Panther I don't believe we will be disappointed.

As far as the tracks, no doubt Andy may have to adapt there, assuming the durability of the Honour Bound tracks.

From the standpoint of this "discerning" collector, I'm generally rather satisfied.

 

[Combat]

Wake Island would make an interesting FOB set. The early war appearance of the Americans would be unique. I hope that Andy is correct in his assessment that a larger number of collectors would allow K&C to produce more non-traditional vehicles and sets. The tendency in most industries is to dumb down things as the market grows (eg Hollywood). Lines such as LAH might be viewed as too risky to the company's reputation in a larger market.

 

[nmrocks]

Hello all,
Did Andy mention any details about the new San Antonio shop as far as openings and possibly a grand opening ceremony. SA is reletively close geographically and I would like to check it out when it's open. If needed I would happily take many pictues to post for us all.
Ray

 

[OzDigger]

Ozdigger

Andy showed us photos of his new panther to come out later this year perhaps? You might not be disappointed.

I'm looking forward to seeing it Panda, I promise I'll convert if the detail is good enough

 

[Steven Chong]

I'm looking forward to seeing it Panda, I promise I'll convert if the detail is good enough

Dear OzDigger,
I saw Andy's pictures of the new Panther at the West Coaster. Based on your comments on various posts, I do not think you will like the tracks on the Panther. Looking at the pictures, I thought the tracks of the new K&C Panther looked like the current King Tiger tracks i.e. cannot see between the boogie wheels. These tracks had a lot of green, grass-like stalks in the boogie wheels -- as if the Panther had gone through a muddy, grass field. I am not sure if the green stalks were sculpted or simply some diorama material added to the tracks for the picture.

 

[OzDigger]

It suffers from the same old K & C vegetation camo in the boogies trick hey Steven.

I wonder if any more detailing can be done with the current polystone material. I don't know much about polystone at all other than it is made from calcium carbonate (marble dust) and resin. At first glance it doesn't look like they'd need much work to make the wheels etc entire rather than half moulded. I would guess that it would be a hard material to grind out with a small machine tool, which if possible, would just add more labor costs I guess.

 

[panda1gen]

The honor bound tanks were very very heavy though looked superb - also how robust are they? I agree the current tracks are not the best but they aren't bad either.

 

[jazzeum]

Dear OzDigger,
I saw Andy's pictures of the new Panther at the West Coaster. Based on your comments on various posts, I do not think you will like the tracks on the Panther. Looking at the pictures, I thought the tracks of the new K&C Panther looked like the current King Tiger tracks i.e. cannot see between the boogie wheels. These tracks had a lot of green, grass-like stalks in the boogie wheels -- as if the Panther had gone through a muddy, grass field. I am not sure if the green stalks were sculpted or simply some diorama material added to the tracks for the picture.

Yes, I don't think you'll like the tracks but the rest of the tank looked nice and from what I can tell, these might be the best figures ever.

 

[Joey]

Brad,

what are the poses of the panther crew? Are they standing around the tank, taking a rest, or are they leaning out the hatch?

 

[jazzeum]

Joey,

I think one of the guys is leaning out of the hatch and the commander, if I remember this right and don't hold me to it, is sort of leaning on the tank. That's all I unfortunately remember.

 

[Louis Badolato]

At the Schuetzen Park show, in addition to a very early K&C Hawker Hurricane and a set of RAF Pilots, I had made a deal to obtain a 1993 production glossy M.P., another of which was found and first obtained by our good friend Fred from K&C Paris. Well my M.P. figure arrived, and it is quite an exceptional piece which I am proud to add to my K&C collection. It was released contemporaenously with the early glossy 82nd Airborne figures (displayed on the K&C U.K. Livebid webpage) and two sets of marching free French (sets which I have never even seen in person). I am hoping that this acquisition becomes a lead from which Bill Sager, Fred, Hans, Brad and myself can find some other early pieces to add to our display at next years symposium.