The Increasing Cost of Toy Soldier Armor: A Different Perspective. (1 Viewer)

[katana]

The cost of Toy Soldier Armor models from all manufacturers has increased significantly over the last five years; doubling in some cases! The increasing cost of labor in China and the cost of materials are several of many factors contributing to the increase in prices.
Plastic models have also significantly increased in price during this period to the point where the cost of assembled and painted models from Dragon and Forces of Valor are competitive. I recently researched the cost of professionally built 1/35 scale Styrene Armor models commercially available and I found the prices of the best examples to be closely equivalent to the best Polystone examples. Thus interestingly the cost increases span all types of Armor models currently in production; not just the products of the Toy Soldier genera! The only way for a collector to reduce cost is to remove the costly labor element and learn to build and paint their own models from the superb range of model kits currently available or accept the cost of the excellent finished models.

 

[mr colt 45]

No matter what Your hobby is there will always be prices going up never going down. Take a look around You and see all the price increases. No matter what.{eek3}

 

[uksubs]

The cost of Toy Soldier Armor models from all manufacturers has increased significantly over the last five years; doubling in some cases! The increasing cost of labor in China and the cost of materials are several of many factors contributing to the increase in prices.
Plastic models have also significantly increased in price during this period to the point where the cost of assembled and painted models from Dragon and Forces of Valor are competitive. I recently researched the cost of professionally built 1/35 scale Styrene Armor models commercially available and I found the prices of the best examples to be closely equivalent to the best Polystone examples. Thus interestingly the cost increases span all types of Armor models currently in production; not just the products of the Toy Soldier genera! The only way for a collector to reduce cost is to remove the costly labor element and learn to build and paint their own models from the superb range of model kits currently available or accept the cost of the excellent finished models.

Thing is the reason I collect toy soldiers is I don't have the time or the skill to make model these days ,also there some great detail stuff coming out from Figarti which are to a high standard

 

[katana]

Thing is the reason I collect toy soldiers is I don't have the time or the skill to make model these days ,also there some great detail stuff coming out from Figarti which are to a high standard

I agree; my aging eyes have reduced my ability to build models to my satisfaction. Figarti, First Legion and John Jenkins are setting new standards in the quality of 1/30 scale Toy Soldiers.I find that my Figarti Panther and Jagdpanzer IV are the equal of my best effort in 1/35 scale models of the same subjects. Other than metal tracks and interior detail Figarti, FL and JJ are equal to Professional Built 1/35 and Dragons line of built 1/35 in accuracy of detail and paint quality. Costly but you get what you pay for. As far as interior detail is concerned I thik Collectors Showcase did a fine model with the Stug III; totally unique, Figarti's 1/32 Tiger I with interior set a totally new standard for detail in the Toy Soldier area. Regards

 

[Mitch]

To have plastic model kits built to a high standard and painted has always been very expensive. The difference with these kits is that it often takes many months sometimes years to finish.

None of the things in this hobby will take the production line large or small very long at all to make and paint. Also when we hear of this high labour costs we automatically think of western wages and the comparison is a misnomer. Look at the average wages in China and similar places and its still really very, very low. Only the manufacturers complain about high wages and increases as that is what manufacturers do.

In some case as you say prices have doubled but, in some cases it is as true that detail has either stayed what it was five years ago or, has actually or visibly declined.
Mitch

 

[katana]

To have plastic model kits built to a high standard and painted has always been very expensive. The difference with these kits is that it often takes many months sometimes years to finish.

None of the things in this hobby will take the production line large or small very long at all to make and paint. Also when we hear of this high labour costs we automatically think of western wages and the comparison is a misnomer. Look at the average wages in China and similar places and its still really very, very low. Only the manufacturers complain about high wages and increases as that is what manufacturers do.

In some case as you say prices have doubled but, in some cases it is as true that detail has either stayed what it was five years ago or, has actually or visibly declined.
Mitch

I agree with all you have said except for product improvements. Some manufacturers have improved considerably i.e. Figarti. A relativly new manufacturer; First Legion has established a new standard in Toy Soldier quality; but at a steep price. John Jenkins makes exceptional armor; the equal of First Legion but at a very fair price. Thomas Gunn shows promise; their Hetzer is excellent except for the lack of hatches and it being too small for contemporary figure sizes of 68MM (1/27 Scale) The rest of the manufacturers are slipping backwards to preserve profit margins i.e. the K&C Jagdpanther is a very well done vehicle, but as others have observed the figures are (Horrible)! This from a manufacturer noted for figure quality! I have one of the Panzer Komander half figure sets and they are excellent; every bit as good as First Legion figures IMHO. What I really like about them most is they are sufficiently oversize that they work very well with my 1/24 scale plastic models which I prefer to polystone because the have individual track links and working suspensions, plus all the hatches open and close. Ultimate flexibility for dioramas! I moved to 1/24 scale from 1/35 because of my aging eyes and hand eye co-ordination. I would prefer to just buy the finished polystone or resin models; which I do in some cases ala the CS Jagdpanther and the Figarti Panther and T34-85 both exceptional models. Well that was a lot of hot air. BTW do you have an Honor Bound Sturmtiger? I asked on another thread but did not see a reply. Regards

 

[Mitch]

Well, I must have missed it. No HB sturmtiger but, I do know a person in the UK that has one as there were 12 made according to Ana. I have tried without success to buy it from him but, it is stunning.
Mitch

I agree with all you have said except for product improvements. Some manufacturers have improved considerably i.e. Figarti. A relativly new manufacturer; First Legion has established a new standard in Toy Soldier quality; but at a steep price. John Jenkins makes exceptional armor; the equal of First Legion but at a very fair price. Thomas Gunn shows promise; their Hetzer is excellent except for the lack of hatches and it being too small for contemporary figure sizes of 68MM (1/27 Scale) The rest of the manufacturers are slipping backwards to preserve profit margins i.e. the K&C Jagdpanther is a very well done vehicle, but as others have observed the figures are (Horrible)! This from a manufacturer noted for figure quality! I have one of the Panzer Komander half figure sets and they are excellent; every bit as good as First Legion figures IMHO. What I really like about them most is they are sufficiently oversize that they work very well with my 1/24 scale plastic models which I prefer to polystone because the have individual track links and working suspensions, plus all the hatches open and close. Ultimate flexibility for dioramas! I moved to 1/24 scale from 1/35 because of my aging eyes and hand eye co-ordination. I would prefer to just buy the finished polystone or resin models; which I do in some cases ala the CS Jagdpanther and the Figarti Panther and T34-85 both exceptional models. Well that was a lot of hot air. BTW do you have an Honor Bound Sturmtiger? I asked on another thread but did not see a reply. Regards

 

[ivanmoe]

To have plastic model kits built to a high standard and painted has always been very expensive. The difference with these kits is that it often takes many months sometimes years to finish.

Hi Mitch,

There's another difficulty with styrene kit-builds; The best ones are extraordinarily fragile. The newer/better kits have very finely molded parts which are ultra-vulnerable to breakage. Slap some photo-etch on the exterior of the model, and things get even hairier. The result is a product that's simply not amenable to being handled. As you mentioned, kits can take months to build. To preserve them, however, requires that the model be stored in such a way that it's safe from contact with anything else, including human hands. While that's no large issue for me, it's a killer for fellas who like to use their models in dioramas. Same deal for those who display their pieces on open shelves. A finely detailed model is simply too vulnerable to dust and damage sitting out in the open like that. Sorry, though, don't mean to ramble. I just felt like I ought to comment, as much of what I've stated rarely gets mentioned in these "plastic-kit vs TS" discussions. Regardless of cost, the intended use of a piece should be central to one's decision as to what it's made out of.

-Moe

 

[katana]

Hi Mitch,

There's another difficulty with styrene kit-builds; The best ones are extraordinarily fragile. The newer/better kits have very finely molded parts which are ultra-vulnerable to breakage. Slap some photo-etch on the exterior of the model, and things get even hairier. The result is a product that's simply not amenable to being handled. As you mentioned, kits can take months to build. To preserve them, however, requires that the model be stored in such a way that it's safe from contact with anything else, including human hands. While that's no large issue for me, it's a killer for fellas who like to use their models in dioramas. Same deal for those who display their pieces on open shelves. A finely detailed model is simply too vulnerable to dust and damage sitting out in the open like that. Sorry, though, don't mean to ramble. I just felt like I ought to comment, as much of what I've stated rarely gets mentioned in these "plastic-kit vs TS" discussions. Regardless of cost, the intended use of a piece should be central to one's decision as to what it's made out of.

-Moe

I concur with the fragility concern regarding 1/35 scale models; which is one of several reasons I moved to 1/24 scale models. The 1/24 scale models are far more robust than 1/35. The increase in size of the nominal 60MM figures to 68MM in many cases allows them to be used with the 1/24 and 1/25 scale model vehicles. A 68 MM figure in 1/25 scale is equivalent to a 5'8" tall man which is correct for the WW II period. WW II photos show the top of the head of Panzer crew below the deck height of vehicles like the Tiger and Panther with a deck height of 6 feet. Combing the fine Toy Soldier figures with the excellent and accurate 1/24 scale model is the best combination for those collectors interested in accuracy. I included photos in the post 60MM figures with 1/24 Panzers.
German Tin Toys military vehicles and artillery from Hausser and Lineol in the 1930's were traditionally 1/25-1/24 scale with figure height typically 70MM. I believe Toy Soldiers have increased in size from the traditional 54MM (1/32 Scale) to the current 68MM (1/25 Scale) for several reasons. Greater detail is one factor another factor is to create a distinct new scale 60MM (1/30 Scale) to reduce competition from traditional 54MM manufacturers i.e. Britains and new armor manufacturers i.e. Forces of Valor. The proble arises when the figures continue to increase in size and the armor does not; the result is unrealistic combinations of figures and vehicles. Collectors seeking realism over style are left to find better alternatives such as 1/25-1/24 scale models. Tamiya has recently re-released its fine line of 1/25 scale armor; the figures included are 70MM. Tasca has several superb 1/24 armor models and the range is increasing. Fun Times!

 

[Mitch]

I am not so sure that I would concur that the kit built models are as fragile as has been commented upon. I have built lots over a few years now and the modern kits are very robust. It would depend upon what you do with it after its built but, they are easily dusted and, able to be used in diorama's with ease. Photo etch was originally intended not only as a facet to increase detail but, to overcome the lightweight issue. This has diminished the need to place weight inside of AFV hulls a common feature of models. I would think that a plastic kit is no more fragile than a polystone one and, many of the models I see in this 1/30th hobby are what could easily be described as fragile.

I have handled many and had to do a myriad of repairs on these ''strong'' polystone but, have had less than a handful of plastic kits to repair. I have done many upgrades to old existing kits adding many after market bits to them and they were ones from the early Tamiya releases from the 70's that have aged very well

Weight equating to value and sturdiness as has often been stated for this hobby does not work for me.
Mitch

 

[uksubs]

Weight equating to value and sturdiness as has often been stated for this hobby does not work for me.
Mitch

Got to agree that for all the weight polystone is a very brittle material and lack detail for the money being charged

 

[Jack]

I only have a few pieces of armour but the price discussion is always an interesting read.

When I started in the hobby a bit over two years ago I went with Naps, then AZW and ALH. I took one look at all the beautiful vehicles and thought that WW 2 would be better avoided given the cost and the seemingly endless variety of tanks on offer. Yet I then went and started two ranges with a heavy cavalry component so it shows that finance is not my strength. I know that armour collectors probably collect the associated figures but with the increases in the cost of painting, I look at the vehicles and think they represent good value (although the very notion of 'good value' is really a private one and is not as easily and universally applied as people think). A release of 8 Nap cavalry would represent the better part of a thousand dollars. Is that the equivalent of four of five large tanks?

 

[Davout71]

Due to cost factors I recently took up plastic kit building. So far I have only built a Tamiya DAK Kubelwagen and BMW motorcycle with sidecar. I also have plans for a Steyr truck, a 251/17 half track and a couple of armoured cars. I really wanted to purchase some K&C armour but the price is becoming too much for me. For the price of 1 of the new figures ($49) I can get 3-5 boxes of Tristar or Tamiya figures. Is my quality as good as the pre-painted K&C stuff? Absolutely not but price comparatively I am pretty happy with what I have produced, not too mention it's fun. I still love my toy soldiers but with the current trend in prices I cannot see myself making another toy soldier purchase.

 

[johnnybach]

I I just did a quick check with two (British) Toy Soldier Manufacturers - both of which I know well. One is at the more "Model" end of the Toy Soldier spectrum - whilst the other is more Classic Toy Soldier - whose pieces fit in very well with earlier Britains, in both size and look.

One earlier contributor to this thread - mentioned Napoleonic Cavalry. I Checked out what an "unpainted casting" of a Napoleonic Cavalry piece would cost from each supplier.

Alexanders Toy Soldiers (ATS) will sell you one French Mounted Cavalry piece for £22.50.

Dorset Soldiers will sell you a British Mounted Hussar for just £9.

(Note: I have just used those two examples - off the top of my head - as I have recently bought figures from them. There are MANY others.) Both will also mix and match parts for you - so you can often make up unique pieces - and they also don't "retire" pieces - or have limited runs of products - so you can add on pieces as funds allow, whenever you want to.

If buying online - you would have to add postage, of course - the same as any supplier of painted figures - or you can visit and collect them for free, if you're close enough.

Then - have a go at painting them yourself - or find someone to do it for you. I started out painting cheap plastic packs of soldiers - and slowly improved. I gave most of my earlier pieces away to some local kids.

REMEMBER - YOU WILL GET BETTER WITH PRACTICE.

Using the above figures, do the maths for your own currency - by using an online convertor - and compare with your own favourite supplier of painted figures.

You may find that you CAN save over half of what you may currently be spending, for Model quality - or save over 70% on the Toy variety - and have a great deal of pleasure researching and painting things yourself, along the way.

I still paint Plastic Kit Tanks - as I prefer having the pleasure of producing something for myself - than buying a metal one at a large cost increase. Once painted - it's difficult to see any difference - until you pick them up.

I may add, that if I couldn't do things this way - I wouldn't have stayed in this fascinating hobby at all.

Just a thought. johnnybach

 

[katana]

Due to cost factors I recently took up plastic kit building. So far I have only built a Tamiya DAK Kubelwagen and BMW motorcycle with sidecar. I also have plans for a Steyr truck, a 251/17 half track and a couple of armoured cars. I really wanted to purchase some K&C armour but the price is becoming too much for me. For the price of 1 of the new figures ($49) I can get 3-5 boxes of Tristar or Tamiya figures. Is my quality as good as the pre-painted K&C stuff? Absolutely not but price comparatively I am pretty happy with what I have produced, not too mention it's fun. I still love my toy soldiers but with the current trend in prices I cannot see myself making another toy soldier purchase.

My experience is similar to yours. I ave built many 1/35 models over many years. My vision is not as good as it was so I switched to 1/25 scale. Not as many models; but those available are very detailed, with articulated tracks, working suspensions and opening hatches; some with interior details. Ageing eyes find 1/25 scale a much easier build than 1/35.
I have never had a talent for figure painting so I have combined the K&C and CS figures with my 1/25 scale model vehicles successfully. The advantage is superb figures with highly detailed vehicles at modest cost. Also scale errors are not a factor. The large current production figures from certain manufacturers are within the range of human height of the 1/25 scale. Those who choose not to build models should consider some of the Radio Control tank models, which are very well done. The VS Tank models of the Tiger I, Tiger II, Sherman and KV-1 tanks are accurate display models, prepainted with great details. The Unimax M26 Pershing is also very nice. The 1/25 RC tank models cost 50% of the polystone models with superior accuracy and features. I think this approach will work for those on a budget.

 

[Go for Broke]

JB, could you share with us photos of your tank collection?

 

[johnnybach]

JB, could you share with us photos of your tank collection?

I'm not currently in the same place as my tanks - but will remember to show them when I get back there. I might have to finish a Centurion first though - it's been on hold for a bit! jb

 

[Davout71]

My experience is similar to yours. I ave built many 1/35 models over many years. My vision is not as good as it was so I switched to 1/25 scale. Not as many models; but those available are very detailed, with articulated tracks, working suspensions and opening hatches; some with interior details. Ageing eyes find 1/25 scale a much easier build than 1/35.

I have just started on the 1/35 and I am pretty comfortable with it. I have been doing well with figures though admit I like the 1/32 or 1/30 of toy soldiers better. I like soft armour items like half tracks, trucks and armoured cars and I haven't seen too many of them in 1/24 etc but may try one if I spot it.

As far as figures go some makers of 1/35 plastic or resin really are outstanding these days.

The one thing I like about the kits too is that you can make it your own vehicle, reflecting the story you want it to as well as customising it as you wish.

 

[Martin Tabony]

I I just did a quick check with two (British) Toy Soldier Manufacturers - both of which I know well. One is at the more "Model" end of the Toy Soldier spectrum - whilst the other is more Classic Toy Soldier - whose pieces fit in very well with earlier Britains, in both size and look.

One earlier contributor to this thread - mentioned Napoleonic Cavalry. I Checked out what an "unpainted casting" of a Napoleonic Cavalry piece would cost from each supplier.

Alexanders Toy Soldiers (ATS) will sell you one French Mounted Cavalry piece for £22.50.

Dorset Soldiers will sell you a British Mounted Hussar for just £9.

(Note: I have just used those two examples - off the top of my head - as I have recently bought figures from them. There are MANY others.) Both will also mix and match parts for you - so you can often make up unique pieces - and they also don't "retire" pieces - or have limited runs of products - so you can add on pieces as funds allow, whenever you want to.

If buying online - you would have to add postage, of course - the same as any supplier of painted figures - or you can visit and collect them for free, if you're close enough.

Then - have a go at painting them yourself - or find someone to do it for you. I started out painting cheap plastic packs of soldiers - and slowly improved. I gave most of my earlier pieces away to some local kids.

REMEMBER - YOU WILL GET BETTER WITH PRACTICE.

Using the above figures, do the maths for your own currency - by using an online convertor - and compare with your own favourite supplier of painted figures.

You may find that you CAN save over half of what you may currently be spending, for Model quality - or save over 70% on the Toy variety - and have a great deal of pleasure researching and painting things yourself, along the way.

I still paint Plastic Kit Tanks - as I prefer having the pleasure of producing something for myself - than buying a metal one at a large cost increase. Once painted - it's difficult to see any difference - until you pick them up.

I may add, that if I couldn't do things this way - I wouldn't have stayed in this fascinating hobby at all.

Just a thought. johnnybach

Although collecting and making are two different hobbies, they don't have to be. Check out http://www.planetfigure.com/forum/ lots of people willing to share their skills, or for tanks http://www.missing-lynx.com/

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

Although collecting and making are two different hobbies, they don't have to be. Check out http://www.planetfigure.com/forum/ lots of people willing to share their skills, or for tanks http://www.missing-lynx.com/

Martin

Well........some folks may regard collecting and making as two different hobbies - but for me, it's the "normal" way of collecting something that I want. It's also far more pleasurable (for me) to do it this way - and I get the additional benefit of saving some money - which can, of course, be spent on more kits!! I tried collecting painted figures, when I first re-started the hobby - about 17 years ago - but found it very unsatisfying. Far better buying kits, for me - and making up and painting them for myself.

However, each to his/her own, though do give it a try - if ( or maybe when), you have the time. I didn't re-start until I was able to finish with work - and had lots of time to give it a go. johnnybach