The Irishman by Scorsese (1 Viewer)

Combat said:
I agree. The scope of this movie is so vast that there is little or no character development even at nearly 4 hours. Figures just come and go into the narrative. It is more a homage to the gangster epic than an epic itself. I thought Pacino was a particularly bad choice for Hoffa. Jack Nicholson was vastly superior in that role. The storyline with the daughter was particularly weird. When all is said and done, this is another nostalgia trip down memory road for older folks who watched the great gangster epics of the 70s. It's like going to a Van Halen concert in 2019. The songs are familiar but the artists are fat, over-the-hill has beens trying to recreate the glory days for people who don't want to grow up.
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Yeah; the whole daughter thing...……..so she was annoyed at him for whacking Hoffa because she liked him?

Maybe he should have whacked the Pesci character as she wasn't as fond of him.
 
Yeah the daughter/Pesci character was really weird.I thought maybe he tried something with her.This movie was worth looking at but not a second time.Show on Fox tonight at 10pm about the Hoffa case.
Mark
 
I didn't exactly follow the scenario where they knocked off Hoffa. What was with the fish story and sitting in the backseat? Why was Hoffa's foster son involved? The other guy in the car didn't exactly provide any useful purpose.
 
Combat said:
I didn't exactly follow the scenario where they knocked off Hoffa. What was with the fish story and sitting in the backseat? Why was Hoffa's foster son involved? The other guy in the car didn't exactly provide any useful purpose.
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That whole scene whistled over my head...………..no clue what was going on there.
 
Combat said:
I didn't exactly follow the scenario where they knocked off Hoffa. What was with the fish story and sitting in the backseat? Why was Hoffa's foster son involved? The other guy in the car didn't exactly provide any useful purpose.
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Sheeran was connected to Hoffa but it was his close association with Russell Bufalino that saved him from being hit. Sally Bugs, who was a loan shark for Tony Pro (not exactly Hoffa’s friend), was also a hit man, as shown in the movie. Sheeran was leery of sitting in the front seat because Sally had garroted someone like that as shown in the movie and he was worried that he was being set up. That’s why you have the fish story.
 
jazzeum said:
Sheeran was connected to Hoffa but it was his close association with Russell Bufalino that saved him from being hit. Sally Bugs, who was a loan shark for Tony Pro (not exactly Hoffa’s friend), was also a hit man, as shown in the movie. Sheeran was leery of sitting in the front seat because Sally had garroted someone like that as shown in the movie and he was worried that he was being set up. That’s why you have the fish story.
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So Sheeran and the guy who was Hoffa's foster son concocted that story to allow Sheeran to sit in the back? That seems like a lot of quick planning given that Sheeran didn't even know he was going to be there until the last minute in the movie. And what was the role of the foster son in this? Was he in on the hit or just thinking he was driving Sheeran to the meeting? It wasn't clear to me what his role was. And if he was acting against Hoffa, why did he turn on him? Regardless, I assume that entire scenario is mostly speculation.
 
Combat said:
So Sheeran and the guy who was Hoffa's foster son concocted that story to allow Sheeran to sit in the back? That seems like a lot of quick planning given that Sheeran didn't even know he was going to be there until the last minute in the movie. And what was the role of the foster son in this? Was he in on the hit or just thinking he was driving Sheeran to the meeting? It wasn't clear to me what his role was. And if he was acting against Hoffa, why did he turn on him? Regardless, I assume that entire scenario is mostly speculation.
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I poked around a little more and found this article that explains the basis of the fish story (at least sort of).

https://heavy.com/entertainment/2019/11/chuckie-obrien-fish/
 
As I alluded earlier in the thread, this is all based on a book that Frank basically dictated to the author in his last year(s). The book is actually a good read and the story flows quite well. I have not sat down and watched the movie yet, but intend on doing so. Again, my whole thought on the story from the book is that Frank sounds plausible and the facts of how Hoffa was killed are plausible, but was he really there and was he a part of it or did he learn about it after the fact when they were not going to whack him. It is well documented that he was very close to Hoffa, that is not in doubt. The book seemingly was well researched and substantiated wherever possible.

TD
 
tdubel said:
As I alluded earlier in the thread, this is all based on a book that Frank basically dictated to the author in his last year(s). The book is actually a good read and the story flows quite well. I have not sat down and watched the movie yet, but intend on doing so. Again, my whole thought on the story from the book is that Frank sounds plausible and the facts of how Hoffa was killed are plausible, but was he really there and was he a part of it or did he learn about it after the fact when they were not going to whack him. It is well documented that he was very close to Hoffa, that is not in doubt. The book seemingly was well researched and substantiated wherever possible.

TD
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I suppose anything is possible but there seems to be widespread skepticism that Frank killed Hoffa among those who are most familiar with the case. The general consensus seems to be that Frank made up this story toward the end of his life because he was broke and wanted to make some money from a book deal. It also bolstered his reputation as a tough guy. Not unlike mob figures who falsely claimed they had a role in the JFK assassination. A number of others have also confessed to the Hoffa crime. I don't think we will ever know with certainty who actually killed Hoffa. But maybe it doesn't really make that much difference since the why is obvious. And the why informs the who. Someone from among a very small group of Detroit mob types. It does make for a good story though. There is another good book called "In Hoffa's Shadow" written by Jack Goldsmith who is Chuckie O'Brien's stepson. Oddly enough Goldsmith is a former government attorney with an extensive legal background. So it is not some type of ghost written exploitation effort but a well written book on the topic.
 
Combat said:
I suppose anything is possible but there seems to be widespread skepticism that Frank killed Hoffa among those who are most familiar with the case. The general consensus seems to be that Frank made up this story toward the end of his life because he was broke and wanted to make some money from a book deal. It also bolstered his reputation as a tough guy. Not unlike mob figures who falsely claimed they had a role in the JFK assassination. A number of others have also confessed to the Hoffa crime. I don't think we will ever know with certainty who actually killed Hoffa. But maybe it doesn't really make that much difference since the why is obvious. And the why informs the who. Someone from among a very small group of Detroit mob types. It does make for a good story though. There is another good book called "In Hoffa's Shadow" written by Jack Goldsmith who is Chuckie O'Brien's stepson. Oddly enough Goldsmith is a former government attorney with an extensive legal background. So it is not some type of ghost written exploitation effort but a well written book on the topic.
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I have read that too, again my take is the events are probably close, but who was there and who did it is where there are a cast of thousands. End of day, agree it is undisputed that the Mafia/Organized Crime wanted him gone, so he was gone.

TD
 
My wife and I both enjoyed this film. I thought it was a bit drawn out. Seemed it could have been trimmed by a good 30 minutes. But overall I thought it was really well done.

I was really impressed by all the "detail" they put in to relate it to the Philadelphia area at the time. In one of the initial scenes, DeNiro's character is driving a Food Fair delivery truck. There was a Food Fair grocery store in my neighborhood that everyone went to. There were other similar details as well.

Walt
 
I thoroughly enjoyed it...
yes it was a little long...
a lot long really...3 1/2 hours was an hour too much for me...
I look at the cast...Keitel...DeNiro...Pacino...Pesci...
all in the twilight of their careers...
this will probably be their last huraah...
I wonder who will replace them when casting for Mafia movies in the future...
maybe Affleck...Hardy...Leonardo...Damon...Depp...Phoenix...
won't be the same without them...
 
I watched it last night and came away with much of the same vibes.
Half hour shorter and a little less cgi would have worked better IMO.
Interesting take on the Hoffa murder and I enjoyed the Bio pick. No sure how true it is.
Still enjoyable none the less.
 
tdubel said:
I have read that too, again my take is the events are probably close, but who was there and who did it is where there are a cast of thousands. End of day, agree it is undisputed that the Mafia/Organized Crime wanted him gone, so he was gone.

TD
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Chuckie O'Brien turns out to be the Forrest Gump or Tommy Boy of this story. I knew nothing about him other than him being mentioned as Hoffa's "stepson" in the movie and some suspicion that he might have been involved directly or indirectly in Hoffa's disappearance. Turns out he was the son of a highly connected mob mother and was a close confidant of Hoffa and most of the high ranking mobsters of the eras despite being none too bright. Mostly an errand boy for Hoffa but he is at every major event. Claims he took a million dollar bribe in a briefcase from the Teamsters to the Nixon campaign in exchange for Hoffa's pardon etc. Quite a life for an otherwise unassuming guy. He comes off as a decent fellow in Goldsmith's book. Likely had nothing to do with Hoffa's death, however, due to his loyalty to Hoffa and not being a mob guy. He also would not have lived out a long life.
 
TRIVIA---in THE IRISHMAN, Robert De Niro, 5' 10", plays mob hitman Frank "The Irishman" Sheeran, 6' 4". De Niro wore shoe lifts to make him appear taller, particularly when he was next to Al Pacino, 5' 7". De Niro said, “The guy [Sheeran] was actually much taller — about five, six inches taller than me — so [the shoes] were to show the relation to any of the other actors or characters that I’m taller.”

IRISHMAN-ELEVATOR-SHOES.png
 
I got to see this a couple of weeks ago. It was OK. I couldn't help thinking, "Oh, look! Another movie about the mob by Martin Scorcese, starring DeNiro and Pesci, with Pacino thrown in, and lots of F-bombs." At what point do we say that he's just phoning it in?

Prost!
Brad
 
theBaron said:
I got to see this a couple of weeks ago. It was OK. I couldn't help thinking, "Oh, look! Another movie about the mob by Martin Scorcese, starring DeNiro and Pesci, with Pacino thrown in, and lots of F-bombs." At what point do we say that he's just phoning it in?

Prost!
Brad
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Had the same reaction, the original Hoffa movie, Casino, Good Fellas, same plot, similar characters played by same actors. Thought it was watchable, 3 stars. Chris
 
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