The M113 at work (1 Viewer)

The architect or engineer of the bridge sure gets around Robin! :wink2:^&grin

Nice scene mate.

Tom
 
Looks good Robin, especially the medic providing help to the young lady,

well done,

John
 
We never patroled sleeves up so wish more figures be made sleeves down.
I was a SOP Cam and concealment plus fire and moving in contact was more painful sleeves up.
 
wayne556517 said:
We never patroled sleeves up so wish more figures be made sleeves down.
I was a SOP Cam and concealment plus fire and moving in contact was more painful sleeves up.
Click to expand...

Wayne,
When Andy put out his images of the first set of 4 I sought comment from a number of Vietnam veterans. Sleeves up or down was one of the issues discussed. It could go either way depending on who I asked. However the best response was from Brigadier Mike Harris MC (a Coy Cdr in a Vietnam with 6 RAR and later it's CO). He said the regulations stated sleeves down. However he said the reality was if he tried to enforce that regulation he would have been doing it daily and he gave up as it would have caused too much friction with his men. If you go on Google images you will see many pics of guys with sleeves up including the famous photo of 7 RAR waiting for the Hueys to come in.

You can do the same for slings on or off.

More recently I saw a comment by somebody saying no Owens at Long Tan. However there is a pic of Lt Dave Sabben of D Coy 6 RAR the day after the battle carrying an Owen. One of the soldiers from HQ delivered a radio to 10 platoon during the battle and the account of what he did mentions he killed two with his Owen.

Vietnam was pretty much a 10 year involvement for the Australians and my feedback showed you could not be accurate on every figure for every Vietnam veteran as the Veterans themselves had different recollections as to things like sleeves or slings. This could be due to which tour they were on or who their boss was.

"Never" patrolled sleeves up is not 100% correct for all who served in Vietnam. As the Brigadier said 100% correct that is what the regulations stated.

Initially I passed a lot of feedback to Andy but gave up as it varied depending on who I spoke to.
 
wayne556517 said:
We never patroled sleeves up so wish more figures be made sleeves down.
I was a SOP Cam and concealment plus fire and moving in contact was more painful sleeves up.
Click to expand...


Totally agree with Brett on this one Wayne...
What uniform regulations state is one thing...What guys actually do while out in the 'boonies' is often something completely different!
Speaking from my own military experience I always personally altered, adapted and sometimes changed items of uniform, kit and webbing to suit best the needs of the mission...and my own personal comfort in the field.
All the best,
Andy.
 
King & Country said:
Totally agree with Brett on this one Wayne...
What uniform regulations state is one thing...What guys actually do while out in the 'boonies' is often something completely different!
Speaking from my own military experience I always personally altered, adapted and sometimes changed items of uniform, kit and webbing to suit best the needs of the mission...and my own personal comfort in the field.
All the best,
Andy.
Click to expand...

So very true and much to the chagrin or Sergeant Majors everywhere!

Brendan
 
The do look great with their sleeves rolled up, typical Aussies. However I reckon some of those guys will soon roll them back down when they go off trail into the Bush. I've been torn up enough when hunting in Australian vegetation and understand Vietnam has more thorny stuff than here.
 
King & Country said:
Totally agree with Brett on this one Wayne...
What uniform regulations state is one thing...What guys actually do while out in the 'boonies' is often something completely different!
Speaking from my own military experience I always personally altered, adapted and sometimes changed items of uniform, kit and webbing to suit best the needs of the mission...and my own personal comfort in the field.
All the best,
Andy.
Click to expand...

Sorry I disagree after the patrol waiting for a chopper I would roll my sleeves up as well,but actually out on patrol through the jungle your arms would get scratched,biten and once you go to ground under contact crawling across a jungle floor sleeves up I don't think so.
Maybe one or two blokes would but in your patrol they all have except the Machine gunner.
Maybe down and unbuttoned all rolled up a bit yeah but like you are going out on a Saturday night I don't think so.
I to know Alot of Vietnam vets dads mates and drinking buddies at my RSL I to asked the question and 80% sleeves down no matter the weather.
As for field dressing on a MG bipod I doubt that very much from a Aussie soldier like to see the picture it was in.
Field dressing was always same place for every soldier so in the middle of contact under pressure we all knew where it was.
I to altered my webbing etc but some things where their for a reason.
I like the figures mate but a few more sleeves down would of been better, I hope the future SASR patrol have sleeves down as they would never patrol sleeves up.
 
I'm with Wayne on sleeves down. The grass would cut you up, plus insects and leeches. I can see sleeves up on a firebase though.
 
The sleeve thing isn't an issue for me, adds a bit of variety imo.

Interesting to note that Long sleeve shirts and Long pants/trousers are now mandatory in most outdoor occupations in Australia. Employers are too wary about being sued for Skin Cancer issues which are very common in our climate. I've had several suspect growths cut off my back etc, not fun but better than dying.
 
The Military Workshop said:
Wayne,
When Andy put out his images of the first set of 4 I sought comment from a number of Vietnam veterans. Sleeves up or down was one of the issues discussed. It could go either way depending on who I asked. However the best response was from Brigadier Mike Harris MC (a Coy Cdr in a Vietnam with 6 RAR and later it's CO). He said the regulations stated sleeves down. However he said the reality was if he tried to enforce that regulation he would have been doing it daily and he gave up as it would have caused too much friction with his men. If you go on Google images you will see many pics of guys with sleeves up including the famous photo of 7 RAR waiting for the Hueys to come in.

You can do the same for slings on or off.

More recently I saw a comment by somebody saying no Owens at Long Tan. However there is a pic of Lt Dave Sabben of D Coy 6 RAR the day after the battle carrying an Owen. One of the soldiers from HQ delivered a radio to 10 platoon during the battle and the account of what he did mentions he killed two with his Owen.

Vietnam was pretty much a 10 year involvement for the Australians and my feedback showed you could not be accurate on every figure for every Vietnam veteran as the Veterans themselves had different recollections as to things like sleeves or slings. This could be due to which tour they were on or who their boss was.

"Never" patrolled sleeves up is not 100% correct for all who served in Vietnam. As the Brigadier said 100% correct that is what the regulations stated.

Initially I passed a lot of feedback to Andy but gave up as it varied depending on who I spoke to.
Click to expand...

Not many sleeves up here mate

IMG_20190806_151441.jpg
 
G’day Wayne,

In fairness to both Brett and myself this ‘sleeves up’ issue has been discussed and explained several times.

Let me reiterate once more... In Vietnam you saw blokes wearing sleeves both up and down.

Here are some more pix that prove my point.

Now, can we get back to the M113 or even the Centurion ... Enough with the fashion police!

Best Wishes,
Andy

P.S. For the record I’m sitting here in my studio hard-at-work with my sleeves rolled up... Perhaps later as the evening draws near I may roll them down.

TF_01_950.jpg

TF_03_950.jpg

TF_04_950.jpg

TF_02_650.jpg
 
Andy, the gun crew would be good without any shirts at all...….

RWDgg5N.jpg
 
It might of been discussed several times mate but that doesn't make Brett and yourself correct.
Your pics show diggers walking on roads( Aussie patrols never used roads unless in a safe zone SOP) or waiting for extraction or after a patrol,and Brett my one pic shows the point out of all those soldiers returning after a patrol how many have sleeves up ?
Andy has made the M Gunner the only figure with sleeves down and I'm afraid that would be incorrect.
Elephant grass,leeches,mozzies etc etc how many jungles have you trained in ??
Your own post Vietnam experience and thoughts do not outweigh the reality of actual images such as Andy has posted,might be correct Brett but what did you do post Vietnam that makes you a expert talk to 1 brigadier ?
I at least volunteered,and trained and got trained by ex Vietnam soldiers my CSM and RSM where all ex Vietnam soldiers not officers mate non coms.
I spoke and know soldiers mate not officers like Andy who sit in a nice office so what you do with your sleeves has nothing to do with the conversation,and that's all it is a conversation.
Don't care about hairy chested gunners {sm2}.

Its just a shame you didn't mix them up a bit but 1 digger sleeves down is wrong and when is the rest of the section coming sleeves down I hope {sm4}
Whats wrong with these soldiers being historically correct it has been discussed and changed in other eras,I like them and will grab them but mine will be altered and displayed returning from patrol not out actually doing their jobs as members of the Royal Australian Regiment.
 
Wow, if you don't like them, don't buy them. Life is all about choices.
 
wayne556517 said:
It might of been discussed several times mate but that doesn't make Brett and yourself correct.
Your pics show diggers walking on roads( Aussie patrols never used roads unless in a safe zone SOP) or waiting for extraction or after a patrol,and Brett my one pic shows the point out of all those soldiers returning after a patrol how many have sleeves up ?
Andy has made the M Gunner the only figure with sleeves down and I'm afraid that would be incorrect.
Elephant grass,leeches,mozzies etc etc how many jungles have you trained in ??
Your own post Vietnam experience and thoughts do not outweigh the reality of actual images such as Andy has posted,might be correct Brett but what did you do post Vietnam that makes you a expert talk to 1 brigadier ?
I at least volunteered,and trained and got trained by ex Vietnam soldiers my CSM and RSM where all ex Vietnam soldiers not officers mate non coms.
I spoke and know soldiers mate not officers like Andy who sit in a nice office so what you do with your sleeves has nothing to do with the conversation,and that's all it is a conversation.
Don't care about hairy chested gunners {sm2}.

Its just a shame you didn't mix them up a bit but 1 digger sleeves down is wrong and when is the rest of the section coming sleeves down I hope {sm4}
Whats wrong with these soldiers being historically correct it has been discussed and changed in other eras,I like them and will grab them but mine will be altered and displayed returning from patrol not out actually doing their jobs as members of the Royal Australian Regiment.
Click to expand...

While you have every right to your own opinions Wayne...and I respect that...you cannot deny actual photographs show a variety of different views on active service.

As for the little 'jibe' about soldiers and officers...Having spent 5 years in the Royal Marines as a humble Marine and another 15 years as a commissioned officer in the Royal Hong Kong Regiment I reckon I've done my fair share of 'soldiering' long before I sat down at my desk.

While seconded to one of the then resident Gurkha Regiments in Hong Kong I was fortunate to be sent with them down to Brunei to take part in the British Army's 'Jungle Training Course' for 3 months...So I've definitely got more than a feel about living and patrolling through the jungle.

As I remember it during daytime we went out with sleeves rolled up and at night when sleeping...sleeves rolled down.

Just my opinion of course,
All the best,
Andy.
 
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