There's an Old Tribe of Injuns - in Dorset! (1 Viewer)

[johnnybach]

I'm getting these completed fairly quickly now, as they have been mostly been painted up to near completion over the past couple of evenings. Here are two more Injuns.

The mounted chief is from Johillco. ( You may be able to make out the word "ENGLAND" embossed along the horse's left hand side - which is not that helpful - but helps identify him. Quite a simple one-piece moulding, and when found, he was in quite a poor state - and I almost rejected him. However, I knew that I didn't have that pose from this maker - so happily decided to keep him too. After a lot of milliput filler work for several largish holes - and then a few coats of paint - he got better! I gave him a new knife too - as a present! [Note: these come from Dorset Soldiers, on a sprue. For 40p you get a knife, bayonet and bullet pouch - which can be used and/or adapted for several purposes].

My dismounted Injun with bow and arrow is a Timpo (says so on his rear pod-foot). Unfortunately, due to warping of the foot - he remained unbalanced. As he's quite old - I didn't trust trying to bend the foot straight again - old metal can tend to snap unexpectedly. So I just made him a larger stand to make him stand up firmly.
I also tried out a new technique for his bowstring, which was just a rather nasty twisted piece of bent wire. I replaced each span of string with a piece of paper-clip - cut to fit. Worked a treat, and doesn't sag at all now - and keeps each span of the bow in position nicely.
He has also turned out better than I first expected - and I particularly like his sculpted physique, face and overall appearance. He originally had a rather floppy single feather in his hair - which was missing on my example, when found - so I gave him a new one - which stands up much better than the original in my opinion! A slash of war-paint across his face, finished him off nicely. Some views of both sides below.

Hope to finish off this round of Western repairs later on this evening - then I can show all of my new finds together. jb

 

[johnnybach]

My last mounted cowboy and standing Injun have now been completed. I've paired them up below, with others recently completed - to show similarities and differences between them.

The cowboys first - were both the same casting originally - made by Johillco. I didn't have the correct horse for either - but picked up a rather nice Charbens horse for Blue Shirt - and then found a Timpo for my latest version. The Charbens "fits" best - and for this reason, I have NOT pinned the Green Shirt cowboy to his Timpo horse. If I ever find another similar mount that he fits onto better - I can then change him over. Note that the repairs to the rifle have been made for both figures - but I made them look slightly different to each other. In fact, the rifle butt on Green Shirt is an original ( found separated whilst rummaging) - whilst the other is a replacement.

Next is my latest repair to a Crescent piece - next to the Timpo warrior previously finished. The Crescent had a large hole in his back when found, which was firstly filled with Milliput - then, when set, sanded back to blend in with the rest of his torso. His bow required some small repairs too - as it had parted at the top from the cast-in bow-string. Simple bending and glueing effected that repair. A simple casting, lacking much detail - as many of the earlier pieces do - I gave him a hunting knife - and added some beadwork to his pants by painting. The Timpo warrior is a much more detailed casting - so did not need much more enhancement (for me).

So that's all of my original 22 "spare parts" - when picked up - now repaired, paired up with horses where appropriate, repaired, repainted and restored. Not perhaps to their original state - but now looking complete and nice and shiny once more. I now have eleven more mounted figures: ( One ACW, eight cowboys and two Injuns), and two more dismounted Injuns for my collection. I've also added a few of the "more difficult to find" examples to the collection too. I now have some makers and/or examples that I never had before - so especially pleasing for me.

I'll pose all of my new finds up, and take a few more pics later today - to show how nice they all look together. jb

 

[johnnybach]

Here's a couple of views of all of my latest Cowboys and Injuns - altogether for the first time (minus the AXCW figure - which doesn't really fit with these).

My four Injuns seem to be surrounded by cowboys on this occasion. The two monted figures are from Johillco - whilst the two on foot are from Timpo and Crescent.

My Cowboys - reading from L to R at the back - are the pair of Johillco twins - on Charbens and Timpo horses respectively. Then comes a Johillco and a Britains cowboy - with a Cherillea rider alongside. Lastly - there are a couple of Timpo riders - The Outlaw toting two six-guns - and his rather weary companion, mopping his brow. The outlaw is also partly obscuring a smaller B&T Cowboy at the back. Just look back through the thread for details of them all - but hope you can see from my pictures, what a nice colourful group these make - once again - after a few repairs and a lick or two of paint.

Bye for now - pardners - jb

 

[johnnybach]

Well - howdy-doody time once again pardners - as this ol' hoss has returned yet again, from hitting the trail down to Dorset. Another lovely day out - incorporating a visit to just about my favourite Toy Soldier shop ( are there any others left??) - which ended with yet another rummage under the stairs - to see what Western treasures could be unearthed.

Some more goodies uncovered this time - with just a few repairs required to make 'em as good as new once again.

Not to keep you in suspendies pardners - this is what I found - this time. I've even thought to keep them mostly in alphabetical order by manufacturer below. I've added a picture below - which will help identify them.

Top left, is a Benbros Bandit Cowboy crouching with Mailbag - just missing a pistol from his right hand, so an easy repair. Next right, is a Fylde cowboy - with missing left arm - and also missing his horse! Giles will be keeping an eye out for a suitable mount for him - so I will await full restoration until I can see what I've got - and then find a suitable left arm for him. To end the top row - I have a Betal crawling Native American with a missing tomahawk in his right hand. I'll make one - and fix him too - even though from the weight of him - I think he's an old re-cast.

Next row starts with an old favourite; a Britains Mounted cowboy who appears to have lost his lassoo. Don't worry pard - I have a length of copper wire which will fix you up, once I've fixed a few cracks - and the grotty paint-job. Next two are both Britains cowboys - one who lost his arm carrying a rifle ( see replacement arm in white metal) and Cowboy with pistol in hand. Again, you can see the replacement arm next to him - which I'll fix in place after the old paint has been removed. Lastly in this row - is another old favourite - a mounted Native American with tomahawk. A few cracks and re-modeled hoof and a base will fix him up to "as new" too.

Third row shows a scarce Harvey running Native American Chief, running with shield and tomahawk. I was delighted to find him - all but intact - but without his right foot and base. As he stands on one leg - this is easy to snap off. As you can see - it's an easy repair - although I've used a spare base and foot from an old Britains figure - that I had in my stash from somewhere. This might cause some future owner some head scratching sometime in the future - so I may file the Britains marks off!!
Centre is a mounted Mountie is from Johillco - and has seen some action in the past. Two legs are broken off and missing, his end of rifle is missing - and the horse's head has been snapped off completely. He is covered in some old grunge bits - where a past repairer has tried to fix him - and has multiple coats of paint over various parts. A complete strip will help me decide how I'm going to eventually fix him - although the more modern repair materials we have nowadays, will help enormously. In fairness, old repairers did their best with the pretty poor materials they had available to work with. I'm just grateful that he survived - for me to have him now.
Last figure in the row is another Johillco - a walking cowboy with rifle at the ready. He was missing a head - which is a straight replacement part from Dorset Soldiers - so again, an easy fix. Next to him are a few more useful bits and pieces - sprue with holsters, an arm holding a cowboy hat, a six-gun and a saddle. They will go in my stash - awaiting a suitable donor.



Bottom row centre - is a Timpo cowboy with head bandage - holding a rifle above his head - and a Timpo horse. Wrong horse for this figure - but they all fit - so I'll paint both and wait until I find him the correct Timpo mount at some future date. There's some work to do on his rifle - which has had a past repair that wasn't wholly successful. The last two flanking castings are originals from Dorset Soldiers - and just looked fun - so I bought them too.

I'm currently stripping off the old paint form all the old figures - so will show another pic later on, once they are all cleaned off again - ready to receive another splash or two of paint. Some very nice old figures found this time - from some famous old names - which will fill out some of the more neglected areas of my developing collection. And all for a pound or two at the most.

Outstanding value - thanks again Giles, who did the donkey work in finding them at various shows and swap-meets or from other dealers. He sells complete original and restored figures too - though he keeps some restoration figures back, as projects for a few of us - who like repairing and restoring. Any that are just beyond repair - eventually end up back in the pot!

Icidentally, there's a free Car Park opposite the Dorset Soldiers shop, next to The British Legion - and Jackson's Gallery is fifty metres away - for an excellent lunch. La Commandante recommends it - so it must be good. I had Smoked Salmon and Scrambled eggs with a pot of tea. A Grand Day out!! jb

 

[nmrocks]

Really like your style of paint treatment on these figs JB looking forward to seeing what you do with the latest batch of fixer uppers!
Ray

Here's a couple of views of all of my latest Cowboys and Injuns - altogether for the first time (minus the AXCW figure - which doesn't really fit with these).

My four Injuns seem to be surrounded by cowboys on this occasion. The two monted figures are from Johillco - whilst the two on foot are from Timpo and Crescent.

My Cowboys - reading from L to R at the back - are the pair of Johillco twins - on Charbens and Timpo horses respectively. Then comes a Johillco and a Britains cowboy - with a Cherillea rider alongside. Lastly - there are a couple of Timpo riders - The Outlaw toting two six-guns - and his rather weary companion, mopping his brow. The outlaw is also partly obscuring a smaller B&T Cowboy at the back. Just look back through the thread for details of them all - but hope you can see from my pictures, what a nice colourful group these make - once again - after a few repairs and a lick or two of paint.

Bye for now - pardners - jb

 

[johnnybach]

Really like your style of paint treatment on these figs JB looking forward to seeing what you do with the latest batch of fixer uppers!
Ray

Thank you Ray - glad you like 'em. I'm still at the "finding out what's to fix" stage at the moment. You can usually see the missing bits straight away - but it's only when you get the paint off - that you sometimes find that legs'n'things begin to fall off from previous repairs with all sorts of stuff.

My Mountie, for example, had the horse's head stuck on with plaster to a core of cardboard pieces!!! The two horse legs were some form of plaster with no metal core! They just fell off when trying to file down the joint with the body!! Aaaargh!!!

I have now stripped him of all paint - and done a more permanent repair with the aid of some metal paper-clips (inside the head/body as an armature) epoxy putty (Milliput) - and Super-Glue ( Crazy-glue to you).

I'm thinking of firstly basing the horse - and then using a metal core for the legs ( which connect into the base) - and then building them up with Milliput. It's a really nice figure - so I will spend some time to get it as close to the original as possible. Most of the rest are far easier to restore - but all will be great fun. jb

 

[johnnybach]

Each of my Westerner finds has now had a bath of oven cleaner - which removes much of the previous covering. Most of them, as you can see are now (mostly) back to castings once again. Some more faults and broken pieces have now been exposed - so can now be repaired.

Note in the top row - my Benbros bandit now holds a pistol - once again. I used my spare pistol casting - with some milliput for his hand - which will be sanded to shape once dried completely. My crawling Chief has had his hand drilled to accept a tomahawk handle ( paper clip) with a Milliput head - again to be sanded to shape once dried.

Second row - Britains - exposed some minor cracks to the horse ( just run some fluid glue into the cracks - and fix on his very loose arm. I don't like these moveable arms - so always set mine in place permanently - and cover the joint with milliput - to be painted in permanently later. The same will go for the two cowboys on foot - with pistol and new rifle respectively.

My third row - Harvey Chief - lost his tomahawk in the bath!! There was only paint holding it on - so a new one has been made by the drilling and fabrication method. I've included my Mountie Trooper - just to show progress. I was lucky enough to find an illustration of him - so made the new horses legs to match the photo. Some work to do on him yet - note also the beginnings of a new end to his rifle. Next to him, the Johillco cowboy with rifle at the ready is now clean of paint - and it is now virtually impossible to tell that he has a new head. Once painted it will be even more difficult to tell that he was ever broken.

My Timpo piece is now uncovered - with some work to do on his rifle - the horse is in very good condition - so this pair should repair and paint up well. jb

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[johnnybach]

Well pardners, here's the first batch of Cowboys now repaired and repainted. Looks like a posse have the Benbros bandito cornered here - who is trying to make off with a Mail bag. Now we know where Ray's last batch of flats went missing!!!^&grin

I'm very pleased with the way the bandito turned out - and replacing a missing pistol from his hand was all that was required for him. The Britains cowboy in the light blue shirt was also missing a pistol from his outstretched right hand. Another easy repair by drilling into the stump - and pinning one on cut from a spare arm ( bought from Dorset Soldiers for a princely 40 pence!) His left hand was just flapping around at his rear - so I gave him another pistol for that hand too. This meant another gun-belt and holster was required - so I made one up with a few scraps of milliput. I just love the two-gun version - and one that Britains never made like this.

My hombre with the pink shirt (another Britains) - you might recall, was missing a left arm with rifle. Again, a straightforward replacement with another arm/rifle solved the problem. The green shirted Johillco cowboy with rifle at the ready had a new head transplanted as he'd lost his original one. Told you that you would never know it had been replaced, (though I have just noticed that I've missed out painting the toecaps of his boots!). Oops!

[My yellow shirted cowboy was from a previous batch, by the way - and just needed a repaint after yet another pistol replacement - but thought he fitted in with my posse - so let him join in the fun too].

More on their way - including a slightly more serious repair for my Mounted RCMP Mountie Trooper.

So - that's my first few of the easier repairs completed. These figures averaged around a pound apiece to buy, originally - whilst the repairs cost pennies. Cheap enough, in fact, to let the kids or Grandchildren play with them - don't you think??

 

[johnnybach]

Here's an update on repairs ( and a couple of painted castings) with a Western feel. Looks like we are straying very close to the border here though - as my Johillco Mountie has popped in to see that there's no foul play.

Very pleased that I managed to "save" the Mountie - as he was found to be in a pretty poor state, once the paint came off - which was mostly holding him together. The horse was missing two legs and he had the end of his rifle missing. The horses head was also off - but replaced and repaired with metal armature and milliput . The new horse legs were made from a wire armature, which was drilled/pinned into the body of the horse - and then built up with milliput. There is now a metal sheet base for the horse - and the new and existing legs were also pinned into it - so the whole figure is now much sturdier than before. I modelled the new legs etcetera, by comparison with a complete figure - and then painted him, from illustrations found on the Internet. Compare him before restoration/repair - and with a complete figure below, sandwiched between the pics, showing both sides of my new Johillco figure. jb



As Found during stripping back).


Standard Figure (shows position of legs to aid repair)

 

[Go for Broke]

JB, those broken toys would have probably been thrown away, if not for you. You're a credit to the toy soldier world. :salute::

 

[johnnybach]

JB, those broken toys would have probably been thrown away, if not for you. You're a credit to the toy soldier world. :salute::

Ha-ha! - Well thank you for that vote of confidence buddy - much appreciated.

I suppose it's possible that some of them may have found a way back to the melting pot - as my friend Giles Brown (Dorset Soldiers), collects them up from all sorts of places. He buys at local fairs, swap-meets and even from other dealers. Some of the figures found are getting scarcer and more difficult to find now, especially in undamaged condition - and he has clients with lists to fill - who are willing to pay reasonable sums of money for both undamaged specimens and those in slightly damaged condition. Giles also repairs and repaints some himself for such clients. He also has a small number of clients - just like me - who just love restoration and repainting themselves. The additional benefit for us - is we can often usually also save heaps of cash!

However, my passion is for the old hollowcasts in need of a a bit of TLC (Tender Loving Care). They may not look EXACTLY the same as they came from the original manufacturer after I've finished with them - but I just enjoy the challenge of making nice, new-looking glossy toys - sometimes from a very poor starting point. I also like to convert some to poses that the original manufacturer never made - which is enormous fun too.

My recently completed Johillco Mounted Mountie - is a good example. Made some time ago now - over 50 years ago - he can sometimes be found in reasonable condition on places like e-bay - but in good original condition I've seen examples of him go for around US $40-$50. Mine cost me $3 - and maybe a similar amount to repair and repaint. BUT - for me, the extra buzz from fixing him up and re-painting him perhaps a little more carefully than he was originally - is far more satisfying than JUST the price.

I'm glad that some others also seem to appreciate them too. In fact, that's why I post them here. But I can confirm - if Giles can't sell some of the more common figures, or heavily damaged pieces, who outstay their welcome "under the stairs" - they do eventually find their way back to a melting pot - to re-emerge as brand new castings. They rarely just get thrown away - I'm very happy to say.

Glad you like 'em too buddy - and thanks for your support^&grin - jb:salute::

 

[johnnybach]

Ha-ha! - Well thank you for that vote of confidence buddy - much appreciated.

I suppose it's possible that some of them may have found a way back to the melting pot - as my friend Giles Brown (Dorset Soldiers), collects them up from all sorts of places. He buys at local fairs, swap-meets and even from other dealers. Some of the figures found are getting scarcer and more difficult to find now, especially in undamaged condition - and he has clients with lists to fill - who are willing to pay reasonable sums of money for both undamaged specimens and those in slightly damaged condition. Giles also repairs and repaints some himself for such clients. He also has a small number of clients - just like me - who just love restoration and repainting themselves. The additional benefit for us - is we can often usually also save heaps of cash!

However, my passion is for the old hollowcasts in need of a a bit of TLC (Tender Loving Care). They may not look EXACTLY the same as they came from the original manufacturer after I've finished with them - but I just enjoy the challenge of making nice, new-looking glossy toys - sometimes from a very poor starting point. I also like to convert some to poses that the original manufacturer never made - which is enormous fun too.

My recently completed Johillco Mounted Mountie - is a good example. Made some time ago now - over 50 years ago - he can sometimes be found in reasonable condition on places like e-bay - but in good original condition I've seen examples of him go for around US $40-$50. Mine cost me $3 - and maybe a similar amount to repair and repaint. BUT - for me, the extra buzz from fixing him up and re-painting him perhaps a little more carefully than he was originally - is far more satisfying than JUST the price.

I'm glad that some others also seem to appreciate them too. In fact, that's why I post them here. But I can confirm - if Giles can't sell some of the more common figures, or heavily damaged pieces, who outstay their welcome "under the stairs" - they do eventually find their way back to a melting pot - to re-emerge as brand new castings. They rarely just get thrown away - I'm very happy to say.

Glad you like 'em too buddy - and thanks for your support^&grin - jb:salute::

I just remembered something that Giles told me when I visited the shop - which has a bit of relevance here. He is presently negotiating to purchase an old Hollowcast mould of an old Johhillco mounted figure. Don't know yet which one - but here's the interesting bit.

He's promised me that on my next visit - he will have a pot of hot metal on the go - so that he can give me a very practical lesson in hand-casting a genuine Hollowcast figure - and I get to keep it when finished!! Imagine that - I'll have a genuine figure - that I made and then painted in my cabinet!!

Tell you what - just 'cos it's you - I'll cast two, if you like - and send you the other one. How's that! jb

 

[Mike Niederman]

"... straying very close to the border here though...". Cowboys dressed the same on the Canadian prairies, so you can move the action north a touch. I've always liked Britains' Wild West figures, looking like they stepped out of a William S Hart or Tom Mix silent film. You've done a fine job of recreating the 'atmosphere' of the originals. I've got a souvenir version of the Mountie, crudely glued to a slab of Bakelite. He's an original Johillco product; the trademark "England" is on the side of the horse. The addition of a decal on the horse's rump marks him for the Ottawa tourist trade.

 

[johnnybach]

"... straying very close to the border here though...". Cowboys dressed the same on the Canadian prairies, so you can move the action north a touch. I've always liked Britains' Wild West figures, looking like they stepped out of a William S Hart or Tom Mix silent film. You've done a fine job of recreating the 'atmosphere' of the originals. I've got a souvenir version of the Mountie, crudely glued to a slab of Bakelite. He's an original Johillco product; the trademark "England" is on the side of the horse. The addition of a decal on the horse's rump marks him for the Ottawa tourist trade. View attachment 157550View attachment 157551

Hi again Mike. Yes - that's our figure okay. The word "ENGLAND" on the horse neck tells you he's a Johillco. ( and that lovely big book you have - which I'm getting for Xmas!) When I eventually stripped mine back - he's quite a nice figure underneath - although mine was missing a few bits - as you've seen. Pinning of the legs to a thin metal base avoids those "pools" of glue around the hooves a bit - and makes for a more Toy Soldier piece than the tourist trade version. As this model goes a fair way back - not surprising that someone thought to use it for the tourists though.

As to the Cowboys ( and Native Americans - as they now prefer to be called ) - I just love 'em. I'm straight back to being a seven year old boy when I find them - in all sorts of places. Now, this might seem a bit incongruous for a young Welsh lad, prowling the Cardiff streets with his schoolboy friends - clad with various bits and pieces of the remainders of Cowboy outfits - and maybe a Xmas six-shooter in hand - or a home-made bow and arrow made from sticks. However, we had the Saturday morning matinees, filled with Western shorts, where Hoppy, Tom Mix et al did battle with their various foes back then. We couldn't get enough of them - way back then in the early fifties. No wonder that Britains, Johillco, Crescent et al made the figures that they did - they knew just how popular they were - and sold them in their thousands. So when I find them - I'm back there right away!

Luckily for me, they don't appear to be as popular over here nowadays - so play-worn and broken pieces can sometimes be found really quite inexpensively - especially when compared to current prices for the more popular ranges of painted TS's!{eek3} I also much prefer the challenge of getting them back to something like their former glory - and because I have plenty of that precious commodity that the piece work paid painters of the past didn't have - TIME I hope I can do a slightly better job of the paintwork.

I'm still working on a couple of pieces - to complete this group of recent finds - so keep a lookout for a few more yet.

Glad you like 'em so far Mike - and nice to see a fellow collector who appreciates them too. jb

 

[johnnybach]

I'm just about there with repairs and repainting my last set of "finds" - which are mostly old hollowcasts dating from the fifties or earlier.

The two pics below show the Britains Mounted Native American with tomahawk - a Harvey Chief with Tomahawk and shield and a crawling Chief with tomahawk.

The two Cowboys are from Britains - with lassoo - made from copper wire as the original was missing - and a Timpo surrendering cowboy with head wound. He is currently on the "wrong"horse - but as most of the Timpo Western range fit all of the horses - it isn't a major problem.

I'll try for a group picture of all repaired pieces later on - as some still have "tacky" paintwork - as I've only just finished some bases etc. jb

 

[johnnybach]

Just a couple more pics for this time - which pulls together all of my recent "finds", of mostly old British Hollowcast Cowboy and Native American figures - which have been repaired or repainted - or both - over the past couple of weeks. Great fun to do - as there are few "uniform" rules which apply ( except for the Mountie) - so you can make them as colourful as you like.

Quite a few different manufacturers on display this time - so fun to see if you can identify them now. See you next time I find some more. jb

 

[nmrocks]

Looks Great JB all grouped together like that, only thing I'd say is "Too Many Chiefs and not enough Indians!"
Ray

 

[johnnybach]

Looks Great JB all grouped together like that, only thing I'd say is "Too Many Chiefs and not enough Indians!"
Ray

Ha-ha! - Isn't that the problem with many organisations Ray? I guess that the old manufacturers wanted THEIR products to sell, rather than their rivals, so made products that were highly visually appealing - which included as many feathers as possible on lots of their ranges of Native Americans. When you go hunting them out in boxes of old toys - the majority of them have the Feathered bonnet - rather than the less appealing one-or two feathers.

There is a parallel with some ranges of modern Soldiers too. Many manufacturers STILL concentrate on making Officers - rather than the frequently less spectacularly dressed OR's - for much the same reasons. The more bells and whistles they have - the more likely they are to sell.

Glad you still like 'em though - jb

 

[Buster]

Outstanding paint and repair work jb, that decapitated two legged horse never looked better. :smile2: Thanks for sharing all your toy soldier rescue missions with us, you da man johnny b.!

B. :salute::

 

[johnnybach]

Outstanding paint and repair work jb, that decapitated two legged horse never looked better. :smile2: Thanks for sharing all your toy soldier rescue missions with us, you da man johnny b.!

B. :salute::

Cheers buddy - glad you like 'em too. I agree with your views about the Mountie. I did have a few doubts - as when stripping him back, the horse head and two legs came off!! Still - at the price I paid for him - he was well worth a punt!

There's one on e-bay - right now - in fair/original condition with some slight damage on sale for a whopping £39.99. I've just cropped him out of one of my pics - and I think I'll stick with mine - he looks better!