Toy Soldier Pricing.....How Much Is Too Much ? (1 Viewer)

[ddchan]

Louis' thought is quite reasonable, I agree with him. I may think those who paid the high prices for some retired items are:

1. who speculates in toy soldiers and want to make a quick profit on it.
2. who are willing to pay a high price on an item that he/she wants most.
3. who are just entering into this hobby but missed out some recent items.

If manufacturers are rising their prices due to people are willing pay huge prices on retired items, I will blame to first catergory but not the second and third.

Chan

 

[Currahee Chris]

Chris,

Sorry for jumping your idea. I did not realize you had already made this point. I guess great (or demented, depending on your point of view) minds think alike.

You are wise for avoiding the secondary market insanity. I used to pay a fortune for things on the secondary market, especially when I was still trying to be a K&C completist. Once I was priced out of that delusional quest (and had obtained all but a handful of the figures K&C produced pre-2000), I reassessed my position on the secondary market, and now try to always pay retail or less.

Between you and I, I'd wager we are both slightly off our nut {sm4} No worries bud, I certainly don't think I was forward thinking enough to have mentioned it first or whatever anyway.

I did actually pay over retail quite recently, so perhaps I am a slight exaggerator {sm4} as I purchased a KC Tiger off a very kind individuals who owns a wonderful Chinese restaurant in your neck of the woods- ever since I have gotten to know him, my two new favorite words in the English language is PEKING DUCK!! {sm4}{sm4}

 

[uksubs]

I don't want to cause a tempest in a teacup, but did it occur to anyone other than myself that we collectors may be in large part responsible for price of toy soldiers trippling from 1995 to 2011?

We routinely spend a fortune (often 10 times retail) to obtain retired sets on the secondary market (sometimes a set which is only retired for a year or two goes for double or tripple retail). I certainly am guilty of this, and I am not even close to the biggest spender. I imagine that the manufacturers, who might otherwise have tried to hold prices close to level, see the crazy prices paid on a daily basis on ebay for retired K&C and Trophy, and think "the collectors can afford the increase".

I for one believe that the manufacturers will not consider cutting their profit margines to hold prices level as long as they see collectors willing to pay a premium for sets they produced only a couple of years ago.

I think you make a very good point people selling item just to sell on ebay for a big profit has not helped the hobby

 

[thebritfarmer]

I have also noticed that certain prices do not neccessarily match

for example :-

a gun set with four figures in two different campaigns has a difference of $10 between the two sets yet the figures separately are the same price^&confuse

a single camel and a sperate figure are cheaper than buying them joined together ^&confuse

There are others and over a couple of makers but those are examples, anyone know why??

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I have also noticed that certain prices do not neccessarily match

for example :-

a gun set with four figures in two different campaigns has a difference of $10 between the two sets yet the figures separately are the same price^&confuse

a single camel and a sperate figure are cheaper than buying them joined together ^&confuse

There are others and over a couple of makers but those are examples, anyone know why??

I think if collectors are willing to buy complete sets at one time of a new release
would a discounted set price versus individual piece price be a possibility ? Dealers
would most likely sell more in volume and the collectors get some what of a price
break.

 

[skeeterbuck]

Great post, Michael. Glossies are still far below the matte price point and as I too see them as TS, regardless of semantics, I still will purchase glossies. I have been, as I have said, priced out of the matte figure market, except for aircraft and vehicles on a limited basis (until more price increases push me out of those, as well). Glossies are still quite affordable and have become much more attractive, to me, as a result. -- Al

I'm not so sure about that anymore Al. I wanted to get the new Britains Scots Greys 3 mounted figure set, but at $170 and with dealers not being able to discount Britains anymore, it just too rich for me.

I guess that making it a limited edition set lets them justify costing more. :rolleyes2:

 

[skeeterbuck]

Great topic for a thread PanzerAce1944!

This is one of the main reasons that I'm always pushing for members here to try their hand at making and painting their own figures. It helps to keep the costs down. It supports more busisness in Europe and North America. And for me, it adds unique figures to my collection. ^&grin

 

[Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio]

This can result from factory pricing, which occasionally comes back with little rhyme or reason. The various design houses must factor in the pricing from the factories depending on their distribution model.

In some cases the price can also vary a bit depending on the comparison.

An example might be trying to compare one 4 man gun crew with another...
One crew might have more parts and as a result there may be more costs associated with casting and assembly.

The gun itself may have more parts or more colors. Compare a AZW British gun with an ACW gun.
In other cases the painting may be more time consuming. A price differential of few dollars is normal.

At the end of the day all of the costs are increasing with everything we buy.

I hope this helps a bit.
Ken

I have also noticed that certain prices do not neccessarily match

for example :-

a gun set with four figures in two different campaigns has a difference of $10 between the two sets yet the figures separately are the same price^&confuse

a single camel and a sperate figure are cheaper than buying them joined together ^&confuse

There are others and over a couple of makers but those are examples, anyone know why??

 

[lancer]

I'm not so sure about that anymore Al. I wanted to get the new Britains Scots Greys 3 mounted figure set, but at $170 and with dealers not being able to discount Britains anymore, it just too rich for me.

I guess that making it a limited edition set lets them justify costing more. :rolleyes2:

I know what you mean. I kinda meant affordable when compared to matte. For glossies, $55 for a single horseman is getting expensive but still, in comparison, far cheaper than a single matte horseman at $80-$90. Glossies such as Somerset are far beyond affordable but I find Regal's SOW and Britains still within a range I will pay. The hobby has just gotten very expensive, just like everything else these days.:rolleyes2: -- Al

 

[Partner]

To quote Oscar Wilde " What is a cynic ? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing "
We all see the same price but each determine the value of an item .

I plan to collect within my means , even if I have to borrow to do it !! ^&grin

Kirk

 

[Mitch]

I don't know if I am, at all convinced at the argument that high secondary markets are the reason why manufacturers are implimenting higher prices.

I see many sets going on the secondary market for a lot less than are being sold new and at retail.
Mitch

 

[PanzerAce1944]

This can result from factory pricing, which occasionally comes back with little rhyme or reason. The various design houses must factor in the pricing from the factories depending on their distribution model.

In some cases the price can also vary a bit depending on the comparison.

An example might be trying to compare one 4 man gun crew with another...
One crew might have more parts and as a result there may be more costs associated with casting and assembly.

The gun itself may have more parts or more colors. Compare a AZW British gun with an ACW gun.
In other cases the painting may be more time consuming. A price differential of few dollars is normal.

At the end of the day all of the costs are increasing with everything we buy.

I hope this helps a bit.
Ken

Thanks for your input as it does help.That is a very good point in refering to some figures may cost more than others due to additional material used and extra time required to paint each figure.A good example of this could be a standing figure holding a sword versus a standing figure holding a flag. The one with the flag is higher in price and rightly sne positive note that I would like to end with is the detail and painting is exceptional on many of todays products....Better than in the past.For this I highly appreciate the effort that the companies put forth in giving us collectors the very best that they can.To this I say.... {bravo}}

 

[Currahee Chris]

I don't know if I am, at all convinced at the argument that high secondary markets are the reason why manufacturers are implimenting higher prices.

Certainly not saying it's the sole reason but I'm not ruling it out as having a probable chance. The drawback there (assuming this is part of your business model- a risky assumption mind you) is you start to peg your entire manufacturing process on the whims of the ebay and other secondary market. If that gets fickle, it could come back to roast you.

If this was something they were seriously monitoring, then I believe it would be smart to hire a consultant (myself perhaps{sm4}) to conduct a study to see what the effects are and properly quantify them. :smile2:

 

[uksubs]

I don't know if I am, at all convinced at the argument that high secondary markets are the reason why manufacturers are implimenting higher prices.

I see many sets going on the secondary market for a lot less than are being sold new and at retail.
Mitch

This is true of the newer sets but saying that there the ones with the higher price in the first place + there a lot of stuff still seating in the shops not moving

 

[The Military Workshop]

Just a few thoughts.

I would think manufacturer prices would be based on the factory unit cost (with something to cover sculpting and masters etc) and a particular margin added to that. That margin then has to cover the manufacturers operating expenses.

Whilst a manufacturer might be aware prices on older items are good on Ebay I would doubt it is a consideration when pricing current items. It is hard to say what makes somebody pay considerably more than retail to get something. Often it can be that they have collected all the current items in a series and then start looking for what they have missed. Or it could be that particular item has an appeal. Either way they are paying what they want to and are happy with the deal.

Some have mentioned buying for resale. One of my earliest collectors regularly bought 2 of each item (although not at the same time). One for his collection and another to sell later to fund future purchases. I think it has probably worked well for him. However amongst my collectors he would be rare in that approach. Most just collect because they like the item. However those collectors are going to feel good seeing an item they bought is selling well on Ebay (even if only to show it to the wife to point out how clever they are to buy it).

Regards
Brett

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

I wouldn't take every price you see an item sell for on eBay as gospel... I have seen examples of items being bid up high and supposedly won by someone, just to see the same item a couple of weeks later back on the auction block! {eek3} Lots of games are played on eBay... I haven't bought anything on eBay in a few years.

As far as TS sales go, I think the collector base has shrunk considerably in the last 6 months and will continue to do so with the accelerating prices. The new strategies employed by the manufacturers are a tell tale sign of that. Good luck to all of them...

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I wouldn't take every price you see an item sell for on eBay as gospel... I have seen examples of items being bid up high and supposedly won by someone, just to see the same item a couple of weeks later back on the auction block! {eek3} Lots of games are played on eBay... I haven't bought anything on eBay in a few years.

As far as TS sales go, I think the collector base has shrunk considerably in the last 6 months and will continue to do so with the accelerating prices. The new strategies employed by the manufacturers are a tell tale sign of that. Good luck to all of them...

If people are bidding up on their own items and not selling the item to real bidders then they still pay E-Bay fees to include "Final Value Fees". Hoooray for them ! {sm2}

 

[trooper]

Just to prove that there are figures out there at a reasonable price, Asset have just released a RCMP mounted gun team in either a four horse or six horse configuration. The four horse version costs £95 in kit form and £190 painted, the six horse £120 kit and £230 painted. (see entry in More Glossy Manufacturers) I think it can be said that this represents very good value for money. Trooper

 

[Mitch]

I don't think any need proof about there being figures in the market being affordable or, there being a plethora of alternatives.

This cost thing only is really applicable to those handfull of matt 1/30th scale manufacturers. Non matt is quickly overlooked by many in these price comparisons
Mitch

 

[trooper]

This cost thing only is really applicable to those handfull of matt 1/30th scale manufacturers. Non matt is quickly overlooked by many in these price comparisons
Mitch

But when Panzerace started this thread he was at pains to point out that he wasn't picking on any particular company a point he re-asserted in Post#18. If we are speaking in general terms then a wider review of prices is in order, if it is confined to two or three companies then the discussion should be moved to those appropriate threads. I appreciate that the K&C, FL, and Figarti lobby is very extensive but am fed up with every discussion degenerating into an analysis of these few companies. No one will disagree that they produce ranges of very good figures but they are not the only products on the market. This forum is supposed to be about toy or model soldier collecting in general, not just the output of a limited few. Let's have a more level playing field. Trooper