Toy Soldier Proportions (1 Viewer)

[katana]

The six figures left to right are 60mm made by W. Britains, Patriot, Figarti, Collectors Showcase, King & Country and Del Prado. The proportions of the figures varies; but only 4 of the 6 figures has correct proportions. The proportions of a human male are determined by the ratio of the height of the head to the height of the figure. A correctly proportioned figure should fall within a ratio of 7 to 8 determined by dividing the head height into the figure height in Millimeters or Inches. The second important ratio is head width to shoulder width determined by dividing the width of the head into the width of the shoulders. A correctly proportioned figure should fall within a range of 2 to 3. A further important ratio is the length of the head and torso to the legs. Each of the two segments should be equally long divided at the crotch. A 60mm figure should be 30mm above and below to be proportional.

The figures in the photo are all proportional laterally except the Figarti figure. The Figarti figure ratio is 3.6, all the others are within 2 to 3. The Figarti figure head is too wide.

The head height to figure height ratio of 7 to 8 is met by all but TCS and K&C. The head is too long relative to the height of the figure.

The vertical symmetry criteria is met by only 2 of the 6 figures. The Del Prado, Figarti, TCS and K&C figures all have short legs and are vertically assymetrical.

The most proportional figures evaluated are the W. Britains and Patriot figures.

The number of figures evaluated is small; but serves to give examples of how a figures proportions can be evaluated. Figures from any manufacturer can vary greatly in size and proportion; but proportion is more critical in determining a good figure than is size.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

View attachment 188702

The six figures left to right are 60mm made by W. Britains, Patriot, Figarti, Collectors Showcase, King & Country and Del Prado. The proportions of the figures varies; but only 4 of the 6 figures has correct proportions. The proportions of a human male are determined by the ratio of the height of the head to the height of the figure. A correctly proportioned figure should fall within a ratio of 7 to 8 determined by dividing the head height into the figure height in Millimeters or Inches. The second important ratio is head width to shoulder width determined by dividing the width of the head into the width of the shoulders. A correctly proportioned figure should fall within a range of 2 to 3. A further important ratio is the length of the head and torso to the legs. Each of the two segments should be equally long divided at the crotch. A 60mm figure should be 30mm above and below to be proportional.

The figures in the photo are all proportional laterally except the Figarti figure. The Figarti figure ratio is 3.6, all the others are within 2 to 3. The Figarti figure head is too wide.

The head height to figure height ratio of 7 to 8 is met by all but TCS and K&C. The head is too long relative to the height of the figure.

The vertical symmetry criteria is met by only 2 of the 6 figures. The Del Prado, Figarti, TCS and K&C figures all have short legs and are vertically assymetrical.

The most proportional figures evaluated are the W. Britains and Patriot figures.

The number of figures evaluated is small; but serves to give examples of how a figures proportions can be evaluated. Figures from any manufacturer can vary greatly in size and proportion; but proportion is more critical in determining a good figure than is size.

To my eye the 1st, 2nd and 6th figures heads seem too small/narrow. The Figarti head does look too big. The only heads that look correct to me are TCS and K&C

Terry

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Not to mention that the first figure is a Robbit on the reverse....small in size and height but with an abnormal large set of hands.....:salute:::salute:::salute::To think that all these manufacturers call themselves as pros and all Market that the sets are 60mm and we see how some differ a lot...says alot on standards....
Cheers
A_C

To my eye the 1st, 2nd and 6th figures heads seem too small/narrow. The Figarti head does look too big. The only heads that look correct to me are TCS and K&C

Terry

 

[katana]

Human proportions are very subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; as they say. The ratios for correct human proportion have been standardized since Leonardo Da Vinci; their is no excuse for getting it wrong.

 

[OzDigger]

Not to mention that the first figure is a Robbit on the reverse....small in size and height but with an abnormal large set of hands.....:salute:::salute:::salute::To think that all these manufacturers call themselves as pros and all Market that the sets are 60mm and we see how some differ a lot...says alot on standards....
Cheers
A_C

Is a Robbit some sort of artificial Hobbit?

It's true, here he is:

 

[The Military Workshop]

Human proportions are very subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; as they say. The ratios for correct human proportion have been standardized since Leonardo Da Vinci; their is no excuse for getting it wrong.

I saw a "beauty" of a female form yesterday who was standing next to her husband as we talked for about 5 minutes. Leonardo (and the modern guy) would have been impressed with her incorrect human proportion and lack of standardisation.

Your point about proportion is totally dependent upon the figures used in your photo. Those figures each depend upon who the sculptor was and whether they got it right with that particular figure. I am sure somebody with a large collection could assemble different figures from the same brands and come to a different conclusion to yours.

In addition the figures in your photo seem to be from a few years ago.

 

[katana]

I saw a "beauty" of a female form yesterday who was standing next to her husband as we talked for about 5 minutes. Leonardo (and the modern guy) would have been impressed with her incorrect human proportion and lack of standardisation.

Your point about proportion is totally dependent upon the figures used in your photo. Those figures each depend upon who the sculptor was and whether they got it right with that particular figure. I am sure somebody with a large collection could assemble different figures from the same brands and come to a different conclusion to yours.

In addition the figures in your photo seem to be from a few years ago.

The photo was taken earlier today. The WB figure is from 2009. The K&C and TCS figures are from 2010. The Figarti figure is from the Panther G 2014, The Del Prado figure I just purchased new from Treefrog Treasures and the Patriot figure is from about 2005. I personaly consider the Patriot figure the most accurate in terms of proportion.

Please note that I stipulated in my post that this was a a small sample of figures used to explain how correct proportions are determined. Correct proportions are a mathmaticl relationship not a function of the sculptures whims! The purpose this post is educational!

 

[The Military Workshop]

The photo was taken earlier today. The WB figure is from 2009. The K&C and TCS figures are from 2010. The Figarti figure is from the Panther G 2014, The Del Prado figure I just purchased new from Treefrog Treasures and the Patriot figure is from about 2005. I personaly consider the Patriot figure the most accurate in terms of proportion.

Please note that I stipulated in my post that this was a a small sample of figures used to explain how correct proportions are determined. Correct proportions are a mathmaticl relationship not a function of the sculptures whims! The purpose this post is educational!

So basically you are discussing figures that are no longer available from the manufacturers and have not been for years. Patriot ceased operation a while ago and who knows what Del Prado or Figarti are up to at the moment. A more educational way would have been to use figures that are actually current.

 

[katana]

So basically you are discussing figures that are no longer available from the manufacturers and have not been for years. Patriot ceased operation a while ago and who knows what Del Prado or Figarti are up to at the moment. A more educational way would have been to use figures that are actually current.

The Figarti and Del Prado figures are both current. The figures are used in the photo to illustrate the errors in human proportions found in Toy Soldiers. The K&C, TCS and WB figures are some of the best that the respective companies have made IMO. I do not consider 6 year old figures obsolete or their quality inferior to what is currently being made; if anything they may actually be better. I would be interested in seeing what you consider best and current from these 6 manufacturers.

 

[OzDigger]

The Patriot figure looks well detailed, I didn't buy any when they were released as a number of collectors said they were too big. A reminder to us all that when it comes to figure size that opinions are often confused with facts. Sensible people adjust their view to fit the facts, others adjust the facts to fit their views.

 

[maddadicus]

The Patriot figure looks well detailed, I didn't buy any when they were released as a number of collectors said they were too big. A reminder to us all that when it comes to figure size that opinions are often confused with facts. Sensible people adjust their view to fit the facts, others adjust the facts to fit their views.

I collect toy soldiers with all their faults,foibles,and warts...I like pretty colors, reasonably same sized figures or models, gloss or matte. Since the beginning of time, toy soldiers were to be played with, die rusty and broken deaths in woods and sandpits. Never once, did we wax elegance over whether those Britains, Swoppets, Jolicos, Dimestores, or others, were properly scaled ,had appropriate proportions, or fit well in " dioramas ". They also were never meant to be overpriced ,overworked or overwrought in all subsequence discussions about " toy soldiers "... Michael

 

[katana]

I collect toy soldiers with all their faults,foibles,and warts...I like pretty colors, reasonably same sized figures or models, gloss or matte. Since the beginning of time, toy soldiers were to be played with, die rusty and broken deaths in woods and sandpits. Never once, did we wax elegance over whether those Britains, Swoppets, Jolicos, Dimestores, or others, were properly scaled ,had appropriate proportions, or fit well in " dioramas ". They also were never meant to be overpriced ,overworked or overwrought in all subsequence discussions about " toy soldiers "... Michael

When Toy Soldiers were toys and cost $1.00 each; I would agree, at $50.00+ each a different mindset takes hold and you demand value in return. Increased accuracy, details, better proportions and poses should come with increased price. I look at the latest W. Britains Fallschimjagers and the First Legion Fallschirmjager and I must ask; why the large cost difference when the quality is essentially the same? The same applies to the cost difference between TCS and K&C, where figure quality is virtually identical.

 

[OzDigger]

I collect toy soldiers with all their faults,foibles,and warts...I like pretty colors, reasonably same sized figures or models, gloss or matte. Since the beginning of time, toy soldiers were to be played with, die rusty and broken deaths in woods and sandpits. Never once, did we wax elegance over whether those Britains, Swoppets, Jolicos, Dimestores, or others, were properly scaled ,had appropriate proportions, or fit well in " dioramas ". They also were never meant to be overpriced ,overworked or overwrought in all subsequence discussions about " toy soldiers "... Michael

There is of course a difference between Toy Soldiers that were meant for children, and 'Toy Soldiers' that are made for adults that continue to increase in price.

I know that the majority of forum members are not overly interested in scale, detail etc. However I do recall you getting rather upset that your Collectors Showcase Panzer IV was much larger than you expected. At the time you appreciated the input from other members about sizing etc. It was a large model for 1/30 scale, however they are larger than most people think, almost Tiger I size. Despite what comments are made, it's still up to each forum member to decide what's best for them.

 

[Warrior]

I collect toy soldiers with all their faults,foibles,and warts...I like pretty colors, reasonably same sized figures or models, gloss or matte. Since the beginning of time, toy soldiers were to be played with, die rusty and broken deaths in woods and sandpits. Never once, did we wax elegance over whether those Britains, Swoppets, Jolicos, Dimestores, or others, were properly scaled ,had appropriate proportions, or fit well in " dioramas ". They also were never meant to be overpriced ,overworked or overwrought in all subsequence discussions about " toy soldiers "... Michael

B-I-N-G-O, winner, winner, chicken dinner.

As many of you know, I collect 20mm metal wargaming figures that I then paint, mount on bases, lay out in displays and dioramas and I enjoy all of that immensely.

Wargaming figures are measured by one simple standard; from the soles of the feet to the eyeballs;that said, you still get some manufacturers who call their figures 20mm which are in fact 22mm or 18mm, some companies figures are hefty, others are slimmer, this is by design. Wargaming companies don't want you mixing and matching different manufacturers figures, they want you to buy ALL of THEIR figures to game with or collect.

That said, although I collect 20mm, I also have a number of figures that are 18mm, some are 22mm, some are 25mm, I buy things that aren't offered in 20mm in either 18mm or 22mm or 25mm and mix them in; when you look at a massive Borodino diorama with 10,000 figures, only the most anal human being would whinge on about figures in that diorama that are out of scale with others.

I love collecting and I am not going to drive myself up a wall sideways worrying about proper scale, proper size from one manufacturer to another, I just enjoy collecting, I love it as a matter of fact and for me, the end game is to have as wide of a variety of figures as possible in my collection. Are some bigger than others, are some smaller than others; YES, but, I don't care, it's that simple.

You can shout from the rooftops all you want and put up post after post of figures that are claimed to be 60mm in line ups with other figures that are 60mm and show us all there are height and proportion differences all you want side by side with rulers, but companies are not going to go to one, uniform, similar standard when it comes to measuring figures, each company makes their figures a certain way and size and that's by design because guess what; they want you to collect ALL of THEIR figures and not mix them with other companies, just like the wargaming companies do.


Is it right, is it proper; probably not, but that's the way it is and it's not going to change.

As in ever.


You can discuss this all you want and start thread after thread about it, but it's not going to change a thing, but eventually, as Einstein said, if you keep doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result, it's called insanity and you'll drive yourself insane in the end and all of your enjoyment of this hobby will be flushed away.

So, just collect what you want to collect, have fun and let it be that........................

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Scale differences have gotten worse over the past 5 years. It just isn't worth the near impossibility to get models of a consistent size. I already have lots of odd scale models. Measuring to 3 decimal places doesn't make side-by-side figures and AFVs look any better or any worse. The best I can do is is avoid obvious mismatches when placing AFVs and/or figures together. And limit purchases to models that are historically correct for camo and details and just not buy ones that don't.

Terry

 

[katana]

My expectations in a $50.00 Toy Soldier are very basic. Good proportions and pose. Accurate colors, insignia and weapons. The same size as appears on the box; 1/32=54mm, 1/30= 60mm etc. I would be less demanding were I paying $ 5 to $10/ figure. I like to be impressed with the quality of a figure when I take it out of the box to display it; not annoyed or dissapointed because the figure has hidden defects not obvious in photos i.e. Legs too short, weapons too large or the wrong colors used in a uniform. When I was a child I was delighted to spend my allowence in the toy shop on Saturday for a 10 cent Archer Spaceman or a Lido Knight.Today at $50 bucks a pop; it takes a lot more to delight me!

 

[jazzeum]

And if it doesn't meet those criteria, what do you do?

 

[katana]

And if it doesn't meet those criteria, what do you do?

I return it for a refund or credit. I cannot afford to toss away $50.00 on a figure that I do not like.
I buy figures on the net via Treefrog Treasures, Hobby Bunker, Sierra Toy Soldier and Ebay. I do not have a shop nearby that carries 60mm Toy Soldiers; so I am dependant upon photos to describe the figure.,Some photos are better than others; colors can be shifted, camera angle can conceal incorrect proportions etc. Treefrog Treasures and Sierra Toy Soldiers post photos beside a Millimeter scale and/or warn that the figure you are interested in may not be of compatable size with other manufacturers i.e K&C and FL. I wish more dealers would follow this practise. I also wish manufacturers would update their advertising when they shift the size or scale of figures. I rejected some nice W. Britains figures because they were marked 54 mm; when in fact they were 58-60 mm! Lost sales must have far offset the cost of putting a correction sticker on the box. I still have not received a logical answer as to why figures changed from 54mm to 60mm and now to 66-68mm! Acromegaly perhaps?

 

[uksubs]

W. Britains figures because they were marked 54 mm; when in fact they were 58-60 mm! Lost sales must have far offset the cost of putting a correction sticker on the box. I still have not received a logical answer as to why figures changed from 54mm to 60mm and now to 66-68mm! Acromegaly perhaps?

Why do you keep going over old ground when you been given the answer from the company ^&confuse

 

[jazzeum]

I return it for a refund or credit. I cannot afford to toss away $50.00 on a figure that I do not like.
I buy figures on the net via Treefrog Treasures, Hobby Bunker, Sierra Toy Soldier and Ebay. I do not have a shop nearby that carries 60mm Toy Soldiers; so I am dependant upon photos to describe the figure.,Some photos are better than others; colors can be shifted, camera angle can conceal incorrect proportions etc. Treefrog Treasures and Sierra Toy Soldiers post photos beside a Millimeter scale and/or warn that the figure you are interested in may not be of compatable size with other manufacturers i.e K&C and FL. I wish more dealers would follow this practise. I also wish manufacturers would update their advertising when they shift the size or scale of figures. I rejected some nice W. Britains figures because they were marked 54 mm; when in fact they were 58-60 mm! Lost sales must have far offset the cost of putting a correction sticker on the box. I still have not received a logical answer as to why figures changed from 54mm to 60mm and now to 66-68mm! Acromegaly perhaps?

I think you have some standards that may be too exacting for this hobby.

I'm curious how often you return figures to Treefrog or Sierra, particularly since they offer a scale and provide a warning.

It sounds to me like you're rarely satisfied.