Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter” (Our Mothers, Our Fathers) (1 Viewer)

I have read this book and I would not buy or read it if you think its going to explain clearly if Hitler was mad etc. The narrative placed on Hitler's mental competence is put in place to ease people's thinking and ability to try and understand what happened. Its easier to say he was mad or the devil, or evil as it allows us or some to comprehend and assimilate what went on.

Simple fact was he was probably no madder or sane than many other leaders in many other countries across time. History is littered with human disasters like the final solution from many countries whose leaders are looked upon as sane and it would be seen as unacceptable to say they were mad.

If Hitler was mad for the line of thought he believed that would right Germany then all the Germans who followed that thought by definition must be mad. Its rather simplistic, naïve and uneducated to assume such a thing (of course these words are not aimed at anyone on here). Any small amount of reading of this era clearly shows that a number of socio economic and political events occurred in an almost chain of causation to end Germany where it did and had nothing to do with a leader who had psychological illness.

These events to a lesser extent have re-occurred in many countries including Britain in recent years with Immigration (among many issues) and the manner in which certain parties and media whip up totally unrealistic and untrue labels for these caught under this grouping. We have seen how easy it is for physical attacks on property and people to occur in such circumstances once this sensationalism is set in motion. This is exactly what happened in Germany in the 1920's and 1930's and, it makes full sense when addressing this era correctly to see how simple it was for Germany to end with the death camps.

Its also been shown clearly that Hitler did not design the camps or the means to eradicate the peoples of Europe (in the same way he took a pivotal role with speer for designing new Cities like Berlin) the architects were ordinary Germans in industry working on plans from SS and other agencies. The Use of Gas was almost accidental in terms of Zyklon B and, to get to that point one has to address all the other techniques used each getting more efficient in terms of number it could dispose of and, in ever shorter lengths of time.

I guess everyone has an opinion but, for me, I would not say he was mad as even if there was any proof definitions and diagnosis of what is or is not are problematic even today let alone then with far less refined knowledge of psychological illness
Mitch
 
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I have read this book and I would not buy or read it if you think its going to explain clearly if Hitler was mad etc. The narrative placed on Hitler's mental competence is put in place to ease people's thinking and ability to try and understand what happened. Its easier to say he was mad or the devil, or evil as it allows us or some to comprehend and assimilate what went on.

Simple fact was he was probably no madder or sane than many other leaders in many other countries across time. History is littered with human disasters like the final solution from many countries whose leaders are looked upon as sane and it would be seen as unacceptable to say they were mad.

If Hitler was mad for the line of thought he believed that would right Germany then all the Germans who followed that thought by definition must be mad. Its rather simplistic, naïve and uneducated to assume such a thing (of course these words are not aimed at anyone on here). Any small amount of reading of this era clearly shows that a number of socio economic and political events occurred in an almost chain of causation to end Germany where it did and had nothing to do with a leader who had psychological illness.

These events to a lesser extent have re-occurred in many countries including Britain in recent years with Immigration (among many issues) and the manner in which certain parties and media whip up totally unrealistic and untrue labels for these caught under this grouping. We have seen how easy it is for physical attacks on property and people to occur in such circumstances once this sensationalism is set in motion. This is exactly what happened in Germany in the 1920's and 1930's and, it makes full sense when addressing this era correctly to see how simple it was for Germany to end with the death camps.

Its also been shown clearly that Hitler did not design the camps or the means to eradicate the peoples of Europe (in the same way he took a pivotal role with speer for designing new Cities like Berlin) the architects were ordinary Germans in industry working on plans from SS and other agencies. The Use of Gas was almost accidental in terms of Zyklon B and, to get to that point one has to address all the other techniques used each getting more efficient in terms of number it could dispose of and, in ever shorter lengths of time.

I guess everyone has an opinion but, for me, I would not say he was mad as even if there was any proof definitions and diagnosis of what is or is not are problematic even today let alone then with far less refined knowledge of psychological illness
Mitch


Mitch
As you would know there is much, much more to the book than a discussion of the question of whether Hitler was insane or not. The real strength of the book is that, in the words of the author, it is as much about 'the explanatory lenses through which we look at Hitler, as it is about Hitler'. It does not get bogged down in a 'was he crazy' discusion it actually deals with the nature of the man and the link between that nature and the evil perpetrated by him and in his name. Alan Bullock, one of my favourite historians (when I was at school the cool kids were the history buffs!) asked 'if he isn't evil, who is?' I would twist that a bit and ask 'If he isn't insane, who is'? I think it is very dangerous to quibble over the minutia of who designed what to the detriment of asking who designed the philosophical framework within which these things happened. Hitler took advantage of the currents of history, that much is certain, but he was the architect. He didn't choose the colour scheme, someone else might have designed the bathroom, a consultant was called in about the lighting, but he designed the building they all went in. There were, as you say, broader issues at play, but to say it had nothing to do with the question of the psychological illness of one of the men at the centre of events, is, with respect, too quick a dismissal of the way Hitler took advantage of the situation in Germany. If Hitler's character, or more correctly his character flaws/loves/hates/insanity played no part in what happened in Germany, then no human being is an agent of change. He was an opportunist certainly, all 'great men' (as in powerful rather than morally great) have taken opportunities when they came. The question that is sometimes ignored is not the comparison with what happened in other countries - you use the example of modern Britain and outbreaks of violence - but why in Germany it went far, far beyond that. Anti semiticism was, and is, tragically, a fact of life, but there was no final solution before Hitler. There was persecution, murders of course, but never to the extent or with the use of the full apparatus of state before Hitler. It always leads me back to the central, perhaps rather simplistic view that if Hitler is not insane, who is?

Jack
 
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I've found that some European DVDs will work on PCs.

I noticed you said your grandfather fought in the SCW. Was he with the Thallman Division. Where did he see action.
I do not know what unit he served in other than that he was a sniper in the infantry. He took two bullets (showed me the scars on his abdomen once), was captured and returned to Germany when it was over.

As far as where he did not know the area well because he buried his scoped rifle before he was captured. As a 15 year old when he told me all this I had some fleeting fantasy about going to Spain and "finding it"(!), so I was trying to get him to recall roughly where it was. It is probably still out there where he buried it.
 
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I ask because I used to live in Spain (back in the 60s and 70s) and have always been interested in the conflict. In those days you could still find tons of bullets and shrapnel on the battlefields. My father, who was a teenager when the SCW took place, went on a few battlefield tours when my parents lived near Madrid and found some bullets and shrapnel which I still have.

If you ever have a chance to go there I highly recommend it as it's a fascinating country.
 
I ask because I used to live in Spain (back in the 60s and 70s) and have always been interested in the conflict. In those days you could still find tons of bullets and shrapnel on the battlefields. My father, who was a teenager when the SCW took place, went on a few battlefield tours when my parents lived near Madrid and found some bullets and shrapnel which I still have.

If you ever have a chance to go there I highly recommend it as it's a fascinating country.
Spain was one of the countries I regretably did not really get around to seeing in about 23 years I was in Europe. I did spend four very pleasant days on Majorca.

Europe is of course littered with battle sites, wrecks and relics of the wars, and I regret not taking the time to visit more of these, and especially to talk to the older folk about their experiences.

I do not know if it is still there now, but for decades there was a Dehavilland Mosquito off the beach of Llandudno, N. Wales. The props were visible at low tide.
 
Anybody found or know where i could DL this from in English/subtitles,my contacts have come up empty................^&confuse
 
BRILLIANT...Watched this yesterday and it was brilliant.
Well done i would highly recommend this to everyone,a very well done show up there with "BOB"............10+.
 
BRILLIANT...Watched this yesterday and it was brilliant.
Well done i would highly recommend this to everyone,a very well done show up there with "BOB"............10+.
Where did you get. Copy in the end mt?
 
Not sure of the need to re title this from original to such a poor choice?? For me its a stunning piece of work and still looking to see where it plays down German guilt
Mitch
 
The Hollywood Reporter is reporting that Music Box will release this in theaters in the U.S.
in January 2014. In two parts. Best bet is to watch for DVD release from Amazon.UK. Music Box
a bit slow in my opinion. All the hoopla will be over.
 

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