US/Israel Launches Op Epic Fury Against Iran (2 Viewers)

[VIRIATO]

You don't think nuking Israel might also be a concern for the US and European interests? It's only a concern for Israel? That might be something worth avoiding. Is N. Korea only an issue for S. Korea? Maybe we should abandon them as well. And Ukraine. And Taiwan. And everyone threatened by China. Of course if Iran gets a nuclear weapon, they already have missiles to deliver those weapons to far ranging locations. What then? Doing nothing to prevent that is not an option.

Hi, I see and respect your point. I don't think they would nuke Israel because Israel has nukes. In fact, Israel can take care of Israel very effectively, as has been shown multiple times. The problem to Israel comes mostly from Iran's proxies I believe. Still, when you have the tiger at your door... I agree doing nothing is not an option, what to do is the million dollar question. I am not sure this war is the effective answer and that we had gotten to the Czecoslovakia 1938 point. But now that you're into it, maybe bullying will force them to a deal. They say war is a form of politics (Clausewitz I believe)...But regime change...Good luck with that.
Ukraine invasion is a direct threat to Eastern Europe and thus to Nato..The Kremlin is already doing hybrid war against Europe. And the US is still in Nato, although it does not look like it sometimes...
China is not in a hurry to invade Taiwan, I guess. They are smart patient chess players.
All this as a respectful debate that I like, mind you...
Cheers,
Paulo

 

[VIRIATO]

Doug...how do you see this playing out...do you have a plan...I respect your opinion and am curious...what would you suggest?

Unfortunately about plans we are mere mortals, not Lincoln, Churchill or Roosevelt

 

[mikemiller1955]

Unfortunately about plans we are mere mortals, not Lincoln, Churchill or Roosevelt

Doug seems more "hawkish" than most on here...I respect his opinion...I would seriously love to hear a plan that I could get behind...

 

[VIRIATO]

Doug seems more "hawkish" than most on here...I respect his opinion...I would seriously love to hear a plan that I could get behind...

He believes you don't reason with the tiger... Is our head in its mouth ?

 

[Combat]

Doug seems more "hawkish" than most on here...I respect his opinion...I would seriously love to hear a plan that I could get behind...

I'm old enough to remember the hostage crisis under Carter who showed weakness and unleashed decades of terrorism and barbarism on the world. It's unfortunate that we have to live in the midst of such people who create these situations. That results in hard decisions having to be made. The US has tried threatening Iran, negotiating with them, and bribing them. The are fanatics, however, and won't listen to reason. They will push boundaries until they get smacked back. Then they will try to wait it out. They respect only strength and resolve. Trump has given them a deadline with a clear path for resolving this conflict. A deal that leaves everyone better off. My guess is that they reject it believing that time is on their side because the Trump haters will pressure a quick end that leaves them standing. I saw a US Senator on CNN today saying the US was losing the war. Unreal. Even if that were true, and it is not, why say that in public? There are some who hate Trump more than Iran. That said, if the Iranians decide to stand pat, then the US has no choice but to send the country back to the stone age. Turn the screws on them where it hurts. Take out all their energy sources, occupy the islands and see how long it takes them to see the light. This does not have to be another Iraq. Take it all down from the air and let them sit in caves until they decide to join civilization.

 

[VIRIATO]

On a lighter note: the marines are coming...

 

[Panzer ace]

Hi, I see and respect your point. I don't think they would nuke Israel because Israel has nukes. In fact, Israel can take care of Israel very effectively, as has been shown multiple times. The problem to Israel comes mostly from Iran's proxies I believe. Still, when you have the tiger at your door... I agree doing nothing is not an option, what to do is the million dollar question. I am not sure this war is the effective answer and that we had gotten to the Czecoslovakia 1938 point. But now that you're into it, maybe bullying will force them to a deal. They say war is a form of politics (Clausewitz I believe)...But regime change...Good luck with that.
Ukraine invasion is a direct threat to Eastern Europe and thus to Nato..The Kremlin is already doing hybrid war against Europe. And the US is still in Nato, although it does not look like it sometimes...
China is not in a hurry to invade Taiwan, I guess. They are smart patient chess players.
All this as a respectful debate that I like, mind you...
Cheers,
Paulo

Great post.

The one thing I would re-emphasize is the false news coverage/narrative about China invading Taiwan.

Unlike most Middle Eastern conflicts China does not want to invade and or annihilate Taiwan based on religion.

They could care less about non-factual, faith based ideologies.

They want Taiwan’s business innovation and infrastructure.

 

[jazzeum]

Great post.

The one thing I would re-emphasize is the false news coverage/narrative about China invading Taiwan.

Unlike most Middle Eastern conflicts China does not want to invade and or annihilate Taiwan based on religion.

They could care less about non-factual, faith based ideologies.

They want Taiwan’s business innovation and infrastructure.

That’s not quite true because they have wanted Taiwan to be reintegrated into China long before Taiwan became a technological powerhouse. It’s historic and cultural.

 

[Panzer ace]

That’s not quite true because they have wanted Taiwan to be reintegrated into China long before Taiwan became a technological powerhouse. It’s historic and cultural.

True but now they want it even more with less of an incentive to destroy it based on Taiwan’s economic evolution.

 

[Combat]

Hi, I see and respect your point. I don't think they would nuke Israel because Israel has nukes. In fact, Israel can take care of Israel very effectively, as has been shown multiple times. The problem to Israel comes mostly from Iran's proxies I believe. Still, when you have the tiger at your door... I agree doing nothing is not an option, what to do is the million dollar question. I am not sure this war is the effective answer and that we had gotten to the Czecoslovakia 1938 point. But now that you're into it, maybe bullying will force them to a deal. They say war is a form of politics (Clausewitz I believe)...But regime change...Good luck with that.
Ukraine invasion is a direct threat to Eastern Europe and thus to Nato..The Kremlin is already doing hybrid war against Europe. And the US is still in Nato, although it does not look like it sometimes...
China is not in a hurry to invade Taiwan, I guess. They are smart patient chess players.
All this as a respectful debate that I like, mind you...
Cheers,
Paulo

It is nice that we can have some a respectful discussion. It's increasingly rare that anyone can do so when there are differing views. Not sure why it "does not look" like the US is part of NATO. The US bankrolls NATO. It would not exist in any meaningful way without the US. If anything, the US should consider downsizing its contributions since we get little benefit except to spend money which keeps certain politicians in power. It's unclear who we are protecting Europe from. Presumably Russia but if the Ukraine conflict demonstrates anything it is that the Russian military is vastly overestimated. And even if Russia invaded and took over much of Europe, how exactly would that affect the US? Under the Iran analogy, our interest would lie in doing nothing because it is unlikely that Russia will nuke anyone. We could just sit back and watch like our allies in Europe and elsewhere are currently doing.

 

[dkmiles99]

After one month I am still not 100% sure of what was the original objective of the war or what is the criteria for victory. Totally destroy Iran’s nuclear program? Unconditional surrender? Change the regime? I feel that no one from the administration has clearly or consistently articulated this information.

Getting rid of the theocracy that runs Iran and terrorizes the Middle East is clearly a very good goal that I support. But the United States can only do so much. The people of Iran will need to step up. If Reza Pahlavi, the Shah’s son, wants to be the new leader then he needs to get back to Iran and lead the opposition. I imagine that it is hard for the average Iranian to get behind protesting and dying in the streets of Tehran for someone who is living comfortable life in a gated community in Falls Church.

The national debt is $39 trillion, the additional cost of this war scares me. I understand that $200 billion in supplemental funding is for combat operations and to replenish munitions. What I don’t understand is what does this buy us… 3 or 4 months of combat operations? If the war drags-on, then in July or August is the administration going to ask for another couple of hundred billion? I guess we are putting this on the national credit card!?!

I get that Trump wrote the “Art of Deal” and Kushner and Witkoff are New York City real estate guys with lots negotiating experience but they are dealing with some very ideological hardliners (religious zealots) who believe in martyrdom and are in an existential crisis. I don’t see this coming to an agreement over a long weekend at the Doha Marriott… it looks to me more like the Paris Peace talks.

All of the last two generations of the males in my family are buried in military cemeteries (National, Henri Chappell, Ft Sam, USAFA). I hope for a very quick and successful end to this conflict.

 

[Horus]

While the original goal was to remove the enriched uranium to remove the temptation from them of using it, that while not good enough to be stuck on a modern missile was verging on being usable in something similar to the large in size atomic bombs of 1945.

However things have been rapidly changing on the ground and with so many places to conceal the uranium, a few hundred kilos of it, so finding it without help, will be like find the proverbial Needle in a Haystack.
where President Trump may have miscalculated and it's not certain he has, he may be quite conversant as to what makes them tick, is in that those in command of the military are just as committed to their ideology as the clerics and that how he usually would measure someone up for a deal, doesn't float with these guys.
Time will tell !