US/Israel Launches Op Epic Fury Against Iran (1 Viewer)

Combat said:
How did those technical experts do in places like Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq? How did they do in the past in negotiating with Iran? The US negotiators are not the problem. Iran is the problem. How can you negotiate with people whose objective it is to destroy Israel and US and go down with the ship if necessary? The only thing you can do is keep applying the pressure until they crack. The primary reason that Trump is president are the decades long failures of the establishment guided by "experts" like Kissinger and Bolton.
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Doug, you forgot to mention negotiating "experts" like Hilliary Clinton, Antony Blinkin and, of course, the most notable of them all, John Forbes Kerry! :rolleyes:

B.
 
Despite all the media naysaying and posturing by Iran and Trump, I think there is a better than even chance that the ceasefire is extended and that there is a deal soon. One of the problems is that it is unclear who is even in charge in Iran. Maybe no one. Maybe multiple different people with varying willingness to deal. Regardless, the blockade is killing them. It's only a matter of time. The deal will be something along the lines of the straits getting opened, agreeing on some framework about the nuclear program (which Iran will eventually not fulfill), the hostilities end, and we unfreeze some Iranian assets to rebuild. Gas prices will drop quickly and the market will rebound.
 
Combat said:
Despite all the media naysaying and posturing by Iran and Trump, I think there is a better than even chance that the ceasefire is extended and that there is a deal soon. One of the problems is that it is unclear who is even in charge in Iran. Maybe no one. Maybe multiple different people with varying willingness to deal. Regardless, the blockade is killing them. It's only a matter of time. The deal will be something along the lines of the straits getting opened, agreeing on some framework about the nuclear program (which Iran will eventually not fulfill), the hostilities end, and we unfreeze some Iranian assets to rebuild. Gas prices will drop quickly and the market will rebound.
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Don't think there will be a deal unless there is an arrangement for the enriched Uranium to be handed over to US, under US supervision, after all, this is what the whole thing has been about, not oil, despite what you may hear on msm.
 
Combat said:
Despite all the media naysaying and posturing by Iran and Trump, I think there is a better than even chance that the ceasefire is extended and that there is a deal soon. One of the problems is that it is unclear who is even in charge in Iran. Maybe no one. Maybe multiple different people with varying willingness to deal. Regardless, the blockade is killing them. It's only a matter of time. The deal will be something along the lines of the straits getting opened, agreeing on some framework about the nuclear program (which Iran will eventually not fulfill), the hostilities end, and we unfreeze some Iranian assets to rebuild. Gas prices will drop quickly and the market will rebound.
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This is about the best scenario I'm looking forward to also...some kind of structure on their nuclear program...with scheduled inspections from the International Atomic Energy Agency please...get oil flowing again via the Straight...gas prices may go down quickly...but probably a year before they are reduced to pre-war prices...I hope to have some stipulations on Iran arming terrorists...read an article about Trump reining in Netanyahu on Lebanon...but that doesn't solve Israel's problems...and I don't have any answers for that...but if Lebanon strikes first...I have no problem with retaliation from them...
 
Horus said:
Don't think there will be a deal unless there is an arrangement for the enriched Uranium to be handed over to US, under US supervision, after all, this is what the whole thing has been about, not oil, despite what you may hear on msm.
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I read that it would be a massive undertaking to remove the enriched Uranium. No easy task requiring thousands of people. And that is assuming it is not buried under tons of rubble. With both sides needing a deal, I think they agree to a framework in the short term. And given the Iranian track record, that agreement will break down and we will be back to square one several years from now. The alternative is to go all in, but I doubt Trump or many Americans have the will to do that.
 
Trump has indefinitely extended the cease fire. I have no issue extending it but don’t like the indefinite idea. To hold their feet to the fire you need a date certain or nothing gets done. I remember when we were doing deals to buy or sell companies. Unless there was a date fixed for closing the deal, we’d just fritter away time but when management set the closing date, we’d work like hell to meet the deadline.
 
jazzeum said:
Trump has indefinitely extended the cease fire. I have no issue extending it but don’t like the indefinite idea. To hold their feet to the fire you need a date certain or nothing gets done. I remember when we were doing deals to buy or sell companies. Unless there was a date fixed for closing the deal, we’d just fritter away time but when management set the closing date, we’d work like hell to meet the deadline.
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The IRGC rejected extending the deadline, seems to have been some sort of coup against the government, so hard -liners against negotiations. What they hope to achieve by this ?

They were displaying one of their missiles and its launcher in Tehran, so still carrying on with the hot air huffing and puffing threats about how they're the winners in all this.

In the meantime with the blockade stopping the majority of Iranian ships, they're not getting their oil out or arms in, which is costing them a fortune each day it goes on.

The USS Boxer and her support ships have reportedly already passed Guam a while ago, and are closing in to support the Carrier groups , USSTripoli and rest of assembled ships and creating other options.
 
jazzeum said:
Here’s an article on the pros and cons of the 2016 nuclear deal. Article unlocked.

“What Was the 2015 Iran Nuclear Deal?​

President Trump has ridiculed President Barack Obama and the agreement, which he withdrew from during his first term. His critics say he could have avoided a war had he left it in place.”

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Tell it to Chuck Schumer since he opposed Obama's deal. It basically lifted sanctions and allowed Iran to develop a nuclear weapon in a few years. A lose-lose scenario. Trump could have kicked the can and avoided the war. That would have been the safe political decision. He could have allowed them to get a nuclear bomb and hold it over the heads of future generations. That would be normal politics. Instead, he is taking on the problem and trying to solve it. It's messy, gas prices are high, and he is taking a political hit that will cost republicans in the midterms. No democrat would have ever taken this on. That is the problem. Putting political interests and retaining power ahead of results.
 
Combat said:
Tell it to Chuck Schumer since he opposed Obama's deal. It basically lifted sanctions and allowed Iran to develop a nuclear weapon in a few years. A lose-lose scenario. Trump could have kicked the can and avoided the war. That would have been the safe political decision. He could have allowed them to get a nuclear bomb and hold it over the heads of future generations. That would be normal politics. Instead, he is taking on the problem and trying to solve it. It's messy, gas prices are high, and he is taking a political hit that will cost republicans in the midterms. No democrat would have ever taken this on. That is the problem. Putting political interests and retaining power ahead of results.
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Only one president took this on and in the end Trump will probably agree to something like Obama did. Trump really has no conception of what he’s doing. He forgot to take the Straits into account and that’s why we have a mess. He wanted to effect regime change and we now have a situation worse than before. The Iranians are intractable on negotiating but they have experts while we have tweedledum and tweedledee negotiating. Had he experienced negotiators the war might have been avoided.

He expected Venezuela and he got an opponent who looks to be outwitting him.

The only way this is going to be resolved is by invading and you know that’s not going to happen.
 
jazzeum said:
Only one president took this on and in the end Trump will probably agree to something like Obama did. Trump really has no conception of what he’s doing. He forgot to take the Straits into account and that’s why we have a mess. He wanted to effect regime change and we now have a situation worse than before. The Iranians are intractable on negotiating but they have experts while we have tweedledum and tweedledee negotiating. Had he experienced negotiators the war might have been avoided.

He expected Venezuela and he got an opponent who looks to be outwitting him.

The only way this is going to be resolved is by invading and you know that’s not going to happen.
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The Iranians have the mess. China has the mess. Europe has the mess. The US is fine. We have plenty of oil. How is the situation worse than before? LOL. Iran's navy is at the bottom of the sea. Much of their offensive capability has been destroyed. Their nuclear program is in shambles. Their leadership has been decimated. Do you want experienced negotiators like Henry Kissinger and Bolton? How did things work out in Vietnam and Iraq with those types in charge? You want a repeat of that era? Trump is squeezing Iran where it hurts. You may hate Trump more than Iran but he is doing what needs to be done. Politics as usual has not worked. That establishment system failed.
 
Combat said:
The Iranians have the mess. China has the mess. Europe has the mess. The US is fine. We have plenty of oil. How is the situation worse than before? LOL. Iran's navy is at the bottom of the sea. Much of their offensive capability has been destroyed. Their nuclear program is in shambles. Their leadership has been decimated. Do you want experienced negotiators like Henry Kissinger and Bolton? How did things work out in Vietnam and Iraq with those types in charge? You want a repeat of that era? Trump is squeezing Iran where it hurts. You may hate Trump more than Iran but he is doing what needs to be done. Politics as usual has not worked. That establishment system failed.
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Your reply emphasizes tactics over strategy. Tactically it’s been a success but strategically a failure. Their leadership is still in charge, but now more hardline. As Israel has learned with Hamas you can kill off leaders but others develop.

We are no closer to having them give up nuclear than we were eight weeks ago.

Our lack of strategic vision has left the world economy in a shambles. Countries are racing to get as much as they can. We have depleted our military stockpiles. That’s success?

The Iranians know how to deal with pain so you may think you’re squeezing them but the Persians have been around for over 2,000 years.

I want negotiatiors who know what they’re doing and have the technical knowledge to discuss the issues. These two have no clue. We aren’t doing real estate deals unless maybe Witkoff is pitching the Ayatollah on the Teheran Trump Tower.
 
jazzeum said:
Your reply emphasizes tactics over strategy. Tactically it’s been a success but strategically a failure. Their leadership is still in charge, but now more hardline. As Israel has learned with Hamas you can kill off leaders but others develop.

We are no closer to having them give up nuclear than we were eight weeks ago.

Our lack of strategic vision has left the world economy in a shambles. Countries are racing to get as much as they can. We have depleted our military stockpiles. That’s success?

The Iranians know how to deal with pain so you may think you’re squeezing them but the Persians have been around for over 2,000 years.

I want negotiatiors who know what they’re doing and have the technical knowledge to discuss the issues. These two have no clue. We aren’t doing real estate deals unless maybe Witkoff is pitching the Ayatollah on the Teheran Trump Tower.
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Brad:

Great informative, fact based and non-emotional post.

-Jason.
 
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