Wellington in America 1812 (alternate history) (1 Viewer)

[wellington]

You got to love these guys who always route for the losers whether it be Napoleon, Hitler, Robert Lee or who ever else...there seems to be a trend I'm finding..as far as I'm concerned thank God all these people lost...what a world it would be if they had of won....I'm just waiting for the Binladen and and the Sadam sympathisers to start and I'm sure they will at somepoint. I think both Canada and the USA citizens have pretty good lives compared to most countries...perhaps we wouldn't be so blessed if history turned out different. All these people stood in one way or another, directly or indirectly, for opressing one group or another!!!!! I'm NOT interrested in living in a Country or any other Country for that matter where a group in held down by others....We may not be perfect but at least we are working in that direction.


WELLINGTON

 

[wellington]

Sorry about the spelling and grammer...was in a rush when I did it....


WELLINGTON

 

[Capitolron]

You got to love these guys who always route for the losers whether it be Napoleon, Hitler, Robert Lee or who ever else...there seems to be a trend I'm finding..as far as I'm concerned thank God all these people lost...what a world it would be if they had of won....I'm just waiting for the Binladen and and the Sadam sympathisers to start and I'm sure they will at somepoint. I think both Canada and the USA citizens have pretty good lives compared to most countries...perhaps we wouldn't be so blessed if history turned out different. All these people stood in one way or another, directly or indirectly, for opressing one group or another!!!!! I'm NOT interrested in living in a Country or any other Country for that matter where a group in held down by others....We may not be perfect but at least we are working in that direction.


WELLINGTON

Well Wellington go explain your theory to the French Candians of Nova Scotia - no holding people down there - huh Big Boy Lets face it there is alot of blood to go around - NO ONE IS PURE

 

[wellington]

No one said anyone was pure....the point I was trying to make was I would rather live in a free society...as for the French Canadian thing..No comment not interrested in being sucked into that endless and pointless topic.


WELLINGTON

 

[Tex]

How many British Military Advisors/Observers participated in the Civil War?

I figure there must have some--McClellan went to Crimea with some US officers in the 1850's, and several Brits accompanied the Rough Riders to Cuba, so I assume it happened in the ACW, too.

 

[wellington]

I didn't realize that this conversation was going to turn into putting different Nationalities down...I'f I knew that I wouldn't have participated..The sad part its assumed I'm British......

WELLINGTON

 

[OzDigger]

Well Wellington go explain your theory to the French Candians of Nova Scotia - no holding people down there - huh Big Boy Lets face it there is alot of blood to go around - NO ONE IS PURE

Minority groups everywhere usually have some complaint about how they are treated but this is expected where a majority rules.

 

[OzDigger]

Now if we could get back to 1812 instead of the 1860's where we seemed to have drifted to, not to mention current prejudices......which we all have.

I doubt if the Americans would have invaded Canada if the British weren't fighting Napoleon at the time. If the British weren't involved in a European conflict they would have beaten the Americans soundly and occupied their territory, and if Wellington was there the defeats for the Americans would have been greater imo.

However if some mutual agreement wasn't reached following such an American defeat I have little doubt that the Americans would have adopted more unconventional warfare until the British decided it was no longer worth the trouble. And the result would still have been a free US, but at a later date.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

You got to love these guys who always route for the losers whether it be Napoleon, Hitler, Robert Lee or who ever else...there seems to be a trend I'm finding..as far as I'm concerned thank God all these people lost...what a world it would be if they had of won....I'm just waiting for the Binladen and and the Sadam sympathisers to start and I'm sure they will at somepoint. I think both Canada and the USA citizens have pretty good lives compared to most countries...perhaps we wouldn't be so blessed if history turned out different. All these people stood in one way or another, directly or indirectly, for opressing one group or another!!!!! I'm NOT interrested in living in a Country or any other Country for that matter where a group in held down by others....We may not be perfect but at least we are working in that direction.


WELLINGTON

On my way through I'll pop into this discussion just to counter that the perception that "good" has always triumphed through history is simplistic and highly debateable, and owes mainly to the fact that the textbooks are written by the victors to make them appear like the righteous side while the defeated side is portrayed as a bunch of totalitarian savages. As Capitolron said every side in a war has things to be proud of, things to be ashamed of, and a few skeletons still left in the closet no one has discovered yet. There were good and evil leaders and soldiers on every side. Watch the movie "Letters from Iwo Jima" for a dramatic portrayal of this. Equating Lee with Hitler is ridiculous. If you're truly a moral person, then you'll reject the absurd notion that "might always makes right" and that the guy with the biggest gun was always the saint. The study of modern history, including military history, is increasingly taking this sort of post-modern approach. Therefore I think it would be constructive to return this discussion to what it started with, which was an impartial discussion of grand strategy independent of who was on the "right" and "wrong" side.

 

[wellington]

I wasn't comparing Lee to Hitler....anyhow we all have our opinions and I'm entitled to mine as you are. Truthfully I couldn't care less...as I said before I'm happy with the Country I live in if your not happy with yours MOVE...


WELLINGTON

 

[Louis Badolato]

I think most wars don't have a good side and a bad side - they just have different sides. There are exceptions like WWII, but even in WWII it is hard to say that Stalin, who was on our side, was any better than Hitler.

I also agree with Wellington that you can love your country, and want to live there, even if you have no pretensions that it is perfect.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

I wasn't comparing Lee to Hitler....anyhow we all have our opinions and I'm entitled to mine as you are. Truthfully I couldn't care less...as I said before I'm happy with the Country I live in if your not happy with yours MOVE...
WELLINGTON

As my forum name so clearly indicates, I absolutely detest my country and wish it were overrun by Japanese separatist samurai. Or maybe Godzilla.

 

[Capitolron]

Wellington

My point was that every Country - USA & even Canada has a checkered past. I think whatt some of us took offense was the "snotty" tone of your comments made towards those of us who do respect Robert E. Lee and Napoleon.

Your post put those GREAT MEN in the same league of Bin Laden and other slime. Which is unfortunate.

Ron

 

[fishead19690]

Wellington

My point was that every Country - USA & even Canada has a checkered past. I think whatt some of us took offense was the "snotty" tone of your comments made towards those of us who do respect Robert E. Lee and Napoleon.

Your post put those GREAT MEN in the same league of Bin Laden and other slime. Which is unfortunate.

Ron

Yes I agree Ron, I also respect what Napoleon had done for france even though I,m not french and Lee was a great general also.
You can,t take that away from him because of what side he choose to fight for.
Love them or hate them thier achievements have sealed thier place in history to many as great men wether you see it that way or not!

Napoleon had won more battles then any other commander in history and had a whole era in history named after him and has also had more books written about him then any other person in history, so I guess there would be a few people who would disagree with you!!!

What if we had called Wellington a snotty big nose british Two bit seapoy hack!????

 

[Tex]

It is possible to respect someone while disliking them.
But ANYWAY....
Does anyone know how many British military advisors participated in the Civil War?

 

[wellington]

Nobody said they weren't great Generals all 3 of them were, personally I don't like what they stood for, I'm free to have my opinion and make no apology, obviously others didn't either thats why they had opposition....as for snotty....read it what ever way you want....it wouldn't be the first time nor the last someone has been accused of being snotty on here.....there is no sense in me responding in this thread anymore because it will only cause problems.....


WELLINGTON

 

[fishead19690]

Nobody said they weren't great Generals all 3 of them were, personally I don't like what they stood for, I'm free to have my opinion and make no apology, obviously others didn't either thats why they had opposition....as for snotty....read it what ever way you want....it wouldn't be the first time nor the last someone has been accused of being snotty on here.....there is no sense in me responding in this thread anymore because it will only cause problems.....


WELLINGTON

Wellington my good friend I was not calling you snotty and I really hope you didn,t take it that way! I was refering to the other hook nose! And I was only joking as I also have resect for that hook nose also. I thought you would get the joke as I put the smilly face after it but I guess you didn,t read into it the way I intended it. But on a serious note I think you would have more resect fot Napoleon if you knew more about the mans life and what he did for the people of france, I think you would have very well found him to be the lesser of the evils at the time for the common man as the citizens of france had much more fredoms then the rest of europe at the time.

So I hope you can forgive me if you took this in any ill way as it was in no way meant as any kind of an attack and I consider you to be a friend in napoleonic collecting even if we view that hobby from aposing sides of the napoleonic battle fields.

 

[wellington]

Tim...it wasn't your comment....I know you by now it was the ...and he wanted to be a dictator of them didn't he? Of course someone will say the British did this as well and they are right...no country should try and impose there own ideas on another...Hitler did lots for his country as well in the beginning ..but...he got carried away and ruined his country as did Napoleon.
It wasn't just England that was against him so were many other countries.


WELLINGTON

 

[Capitolron]

You got to love these guys who always route for the losers whether it be Napoleon, Hitler, Robert Lee or who ever else...there seems to be a trend I'm finding..as far as I'm concerned thank God all these people lost...what a world it would be if they had of won....I'm just waiting for the Binladen and and the Sadam sympathisers to start and I'm sure they will at somepoint. I think both Canada and the USA citizens have pretty good lives compared to most countries...perhaps we wouldn't be so blessed if history turned out different. All these people stood in one way or another, directly or indirectly, for opressing one group or another!!!!! I'm NOT interrested in living in a Country or any other Country for that matter where a group in held down by others....We may not be perfect but at least we are working in that direction.


WELLINGTON

Wellington

I wanted to bring your post up one more time for you to re-read it. Perhaps you can see how those of us who appreciate Napoleon and Robert E. Lee could take offense to your statements.

You have a right to your opinion - no question - but, your words had a dismissive tone that bordered on being rude. I do not feel you are a bad person - gosh knows I have ruffled feathers in the past myself.

I just thought it was a little over the top to lump Napoleon and Lee in with Hitler, Sadam and Bin Laden - thats all.

I believe that Napoleon did wonderful things for the rule of law (Napoleonic Code) and the modernization of Military Tactics - to name a few. He was a genius in every sense - IMHO.

Its fine that we disagree - but, lets respect each others viewpoints as well.

Ron

 

[OzDigger]

I have a grudging respect for Napoleon but it should be noted that the Napoleonic Wars were named such as it was British tradition to name conflicts after their enemy or their own monarch of the time. It wasn't out of respect for the guy,

As for Napoleon removing monarchs from France, he merely replaced them as Emperor of France and I understand this title was inherited by two of his children in due course.