What happened with Jeb Stuart? (2 Viewers)

[DCN1898]

I read a while ago, that in the late 1970's, that the average American moved about every five years. That means there were a lot of apartment movers on one end of the scale, and obviously a lot of people didn't move at all.
I think that World War II had a lot to do with the tendency for people to move. We became very mobile and an awesome freeway system was begun. My family is from Illinois, my dad was career Army. His last duty station before retirement was the Presidio of San Francisco. After driving across country a few times, my parents decided that they liked California much better than Illinois. Others picked Florida, Arizona, Tennessee, Nevada.

 

[Scott]

"....it is just to diferent and i am sure people in Rapid city do not share the same "american dream" that share people in New York or Chicago,Boston,..."


Maybe but Kaiser Bill, Hitler, Tojo, Mussolini, and Bin Laden thought we were weak and divided. USA USA!

 

[lancer]

There are as many American dreams as there Americans. What makes us great is that we are allowed to dream and pursue that dream. Americans will always unite to fight for that dream. -- lancer

 

[Aleš]

There are as many American dreams as there Americans. What makes us great is that we are allowed to dream and pursue that dream. Americans will always unite to fight for that dream. -- lancer

not true,because maybe you do not have the same dream all the time...Like in Civil war two sides have two diferent wievs...
But i do not wish to broke USA apart i do not even care about this i just tell my opinion,....i am sure that small countrys like my country are more united that are some big countrys like USA,Russia,Canada,....because citizen in USA are original from Europe,Africa,Asia,....they all come to the USA and it is kind of mix up nations each with diferent culture,religion,way of life,...in my country we all have one language,one culture,one religion,...my country is open for turists but when people wannt to come to live here they must pass all kind of test,papers,visas,...that they are allow to stay here and work here,....because we are too proud to be slovenians that we do not accept everyone who wish to live here,i think here is the diference between big countrys and small countrys and their united.In my country almost all people know each other so when you wannt to build a house or something you just invite your relatives,your neighbours,your friends,...and they will help you build a house or swimming pool,or garage,....i am not sure in big countrys is the same,....

 

[binder001]

and i am sure people in Rapid city do not share the same "american dream" that share people in New York or Chicago,Boston,...

Funny enough, yes they do. One of the greatest American dreams is that your children will live better than you do now. That motivated people to leave Europe, Asia, etc. and move to North America. That's what motivated them to establish a seperate country and to fight to defend that country - always the dream that their children would be better in some way. We argue and fuss at each other over politics, religion, US football, or whatever, but you should have FELT this country after 9-11-2001 or at other times of distress. America is not the color of your skin or the amount of money in your wallet - it is what is in your heart! We can't claim to be perfect but most people want a better world, not just a better country. That's why the USA stands up to cheap dictators, helps earthquake victims around the world, tries to send food to the hungry. We want the world to be a better place. We make many mistakes, sometimes big ones, but we are at least out there trying.

Gary B.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Funny enough, yes they do. One of the greatest American dreams is that your children will live better than you do now. That motivated people to leave Europe, Asia, etc. and move to North America. That's what motivated them to establish a seperate country and to fight to defend that country - always the dream that their children would be better in some way. We argue and fuss at each other over politics, religion, US football, or whatever, but you should have FELT this country after 9-11-2001 or at other times of distress. America is not the color of your skin or the amount of money in your wallet - it is what is in your heart! We can't claim to be perfect but most people want a better world, not just a better country. That's why the USA stands up to cheap dictators, helps earthquake victims around the world, tries to send food to the hungry. We want the world to be a better place. We make many mistakes, sometimes big ones, but we are at least out there trying.

Gary B.

Great post! The best recent example of the American Spirit I can think of is after that terrible Tsunami in South East Asia. While our government was preparing its own relief effort, individual Americans donated more than twice what any government sent to the relief of the survivors. That, to me, is what America is really about: a nation of good people, individuals who are willing to fight to defend not just their own rights, but what is right, around the world, and willing to give to help people in need, anywhere in the world. That is why I am proud to be an American.

 

[theBaron]

As Bill Bennett just put it on his show, "The first ones in were Special Forces and churches--that's America!"

 

[jazzeum]

nah,people who come to live in some place for economics reasons,and than they leave country and go somewhere better for them do not count.
It is not the same.I tell them tourists.They will never fight for their country,they will not love their country as much as love people who are born there,who live there for whole their live.
So i understand Texans that they are texans before they are anything else.
I remmember when Chuck Norris(famous actor) once say that texas was a republic before and that they can be republic for their own again.
I think USA is more a continent than a country,because there are 50 states and they have diferent laws in diferent states,the economic power is very diferent in dakota that is in California,or there are some rich towns like New York,Vegas,Houston,...but than is also town like Boise in Iowa,Rapid City in dakota,....it is just to diferent and i am sure people in Rapid city do not share the same "american dream" that share people in New York or Chicago,Boston,...

not true,because maybe you do not have the same dream all the time...Like in Civil war two sides have two diferent wievs...
But i do not wish to broke USA apart i do not even care about this i just tell my opinion,....i am sure that small countrys like my country are more united that are some big countrys like USA,Russia,Canada,....because citizen in USA are original from Europe,Africa,Asia,....they all come to the USA and it is kind of mix up nations each with diferent culture,religion,way of life,...in my country we all have one language,one culture,one religion,...my country is open for turists but when people wannt to come to live here they must pass all kind of test,papers,visas,...that they are allow to stay here and work here,....because we are too proud to be slovenians that we do not accept everyone who wish to live here,i think here is the diference between big countrys and small countrys and their united.In my country almost all people know each other so when you wannt to build a house or something you just invite your relatives,your neighbours,your friends,...and they will help you build a house or swimming pool,or garage,....i am not sure in big countrys is the same,....

With all due respect, it's apparent that you don't really understand the United States or its people. Our diversity is what makes us strong.

 

[Scott]

As Bill Bennett just put it on his show, "The first ones in were Special Forces and churches--that's America!"

Baron, I just don't see a standing army and state churches in our original national documents no matter what good these institutions sometimes do. Just about every nation on the planet has a military and/or some kind of national cult.

Pizarro could have said the same thing to the Incas.

Pat Robertson Overdose this morning.

 

[lancer]

not true,because maybe you do not have the same dream all the time...Like in Civil war two sides have two diferent wievs...
But i do not wish to broke USA apart i do not even care about this i just tell my opinion,....i am sure that small countrys like my country are more united that are some big countrys like USA,Russia,Canada,....because citizen in USA are original from Europe,Africa,Asia,....they all come to the USA and it is kind of mix up nations each with diferent culture,religion,way of life,...in my country we all have one language,one culture,one religion,...my country is open for turists but when people wannt to come to live here they must pass all kind of test,papers,visas,...that they are allow to stay here and work here,....because we are too proud to be slovenians that we do not accept everyone who wish to live here,i think here is the diference between big countrys and small countrys and their united.In my country almost all people know each other so when you wannt to build a house or something you just invite your relatives,your neighbours,your friends,...and they will help you build a house or swimming pool,or garage,....i am not sure in big countrys is the same,....

You missed my point, yet proved it with your post. What makes the USA great is the exact opposite of what you claim for your country. -- lancer

 

[Spitfrnd]

Although the thread has strayed a little from the original question I have found a lot of the posts very interesting in the variable views expressed by the postees. So although in danger of being verbally crucified on the cross of what the hell does an Englishman know about an American war please excuse this Brit's two cents worth on some of the discussion points.

As stated I too have read far too many books written about the various causes of the Civil war and am only too aware that every historian brings his or her bias to the table and even when something appears unbiased and neutral in tone, it's still pretty difficult to find a completely accurate and unbiased historical account of something. This is especially evident in the thousands of books written about the causes of the ACW. However, whether it's state's rights, pressures of westward expansion or the behemoth of industrial and political power of the North vs the simple country folk of the South, slavery is always lurking beneath the surface. The South's economy based on slave man-power was an accident of nature that made the soil of the South incredibly arable to grow tobacco and cotton which swiftly became extremely successful for by the end of the 1600's Virginia and Maryland were exporting more than 9 million tons of tobacco a year to Europe and a key component of this trade was African slaves.

Any student of early American history can easily identify amongst his/her history tomes the way the two economies of the North and the South developed and divided in the 17th and 18th century exacerbated by the slavery question. But the match that ignited this powder keg was the unusually strong pull each state held on its citizens. But as mentioned on this thread many of those citizens were reluctant for their state to leave the Union-prime example being Bobby Lee who wrote to a friend just before Virginia seceded "If Virginia stands by the old Union, so will I. But if she secedes, then I will follow my native state with my sword, and, if need be with my life."

But for most and in particular the participants in the war, choosing sides was as easy as figuring out one's home state. However, as aforementioned there were many others who decided to take up the cause of an adopted state. General George Thomas (The Rock of Chickamauga) a Virginian fought for the North primarily because his wife came from New York. Generals Samuel Cooper, Martin Smith, Roswell Ripley all Northerners married to Southern ladies gave up their heritage and fought for the South. I could list at least another couple of hundred such cases leaving me no doubt that just as today the ladies had quite a bit of pull.

However, Union Brigadier-General Phillip St George Cooke is my all time favorite divided house story. He had one son who joined the Confederacy much to his father's chagrin. He also had three daughters who married men who became generals during the war: one for the Union and two for the Confederacy. One of these Reb generals embarrassed his father-in-law by riding around, through and over St George Cooke's cavalry division early in the war culminating in father-in-law seeing no further field service throughout the war.

The son-in-law culprit? JEB Stuart himself which kinda brings the thread back full circle

Reb

That is what I love about your posts Bob; I always learn something. Of course it is ironic to learn about US military history from a UK source but perhaps someday I can teach you something about Wellington's rascals?

 

[theBaron]

Baron, I just don't see a standing army and state churches in our original national documents no matter what good these institutions sometimes do. Just about every nation on the planet has a military and/or some kind of national cult.

Pizarro could have said the same thing to the Incas.

Pat Robertson Overdose this morning.

That wasn't his point, the point was that our military is usually the first responder on scenes of natural disasters or other emergencies, and that private, charitable organizations, usually faith-based, are also among the first to arrive, and that, before any bureaucracy can mobilize its hidebound resources. And it is the spirit of volunteerism that motivates both our military and our churches.

And actually, Scott, the Constitution does provide the basis for a standing army. I agree that it does not provide for a national church, but again, that was not the point of Bennett's comment.

 

[Scott]

That wasn't his point, the point was that our military is usually the first responder on scenes of natural disasters or other emergencies, and that private, charitable organizations, usually faith-based, are also among the first to arrive, and that, before any bureaucracy can mobilize its hidebound resources. And it is the spirit of volunteerism that motivates both our military and our churches.

And actually, Scott, the Constitution does provide the basis for a standing army. I agree that it does not provide for a national church, but again, that was not the point of Bennett's comment.

Thank you Baron, yes the Constitution provides for standing forces and in detail it was to be kept small and civilian controlled so that the use of a military is an extension of civilian policy. In the case of the US, those policies set by elected representatives.

Most "civilized" countries do the same and as admirable as NGO's and religious group's charity efforts are, it's not necessarily "American" to do so.

The point about the military and religions entering foreign countries is that as much as they mean to help and the local people are grateful, those institutions tend to stay and there is little inherently "American" about that though we do it.

I can understand the spirit of Bennett's quote but it credit's authoritarian institutions not exclusive to the United States.

 

[UKReb]

That is what I love about your posts Bob; I always learn something. Of course it is ironic to learn about US military history from a UK source but perhaps someday I can teach you something about Wellington's rascals?

Well thank ye kindly Bill-but I think it only fair to tell you that I cut my tacker's teeth on Napoleonic war-gaming. Didn't someone post "just because we don't collect it doesn't mean.......er... or something like that

Bob

 

[theBaron]

Thank you Baron, yes the Constitution provides for standing forces and in detail it was to be kept small and civilian controlled so that the use of a military is an extension of civilian policy. In the case of the US, those policies set by elected representatives.

Most "civilized" countries do the same and as admirable as NGO's and religious group's charity efforts are, it's not necessarily "American" to do so.

The point about the military and religions entering foreign countries is that as much as they mean to help and the local people are grateful, those institutions tend to stay and there is little inherently "American" about that though we do it.

I can understand the spirit of Bennett's quote but it credit's authoritarian institutions not exclusive to the United States.

I don't think our military will stay in Haiti, once the relief operation is ended, and it's silly to imply it.

I don't think Bennett was saying, and I don't say it, either, that this spirit is exclusively American, but it certainly is American nonetheless.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Well thank ye kindly Bill-but I think it only fair to tell you that I cut my tacker's teeth on Napoleonic war-gaming. Didn't someone post "just because we don't collect it doesn't mean.......er... or something like that

Bob

Ah well so you have been holding back on me and lying in the grass my friend. So what is all this about I don't know anything about Napoleonic battles stuff I have heard from someone? Anyway, I did say perhaps and someday. BTW, you are now it on the email tag.

 

[Scott]

I will agree that Americans in groups or as individuals can be good towards others in need just because it's the right thing to do. Use of the military or NGOs to implement that aid comes from that "place" as opposed to the institutions in themselves that any old country can have.

The US has been in and out of Haiti since before General Smedley Butler's time. Considering Haiti got the rocky end of the island with the bay breaking it up, it's tough place to self govern. Now Haiti has been smeared with the "deal with the devil" myth. It all makes me sad.

 

[Lewey Gun Vick]

Great post! The best recent example of the American Spirit I can think of is after that terrible Tsunami in South East Asia. While our government was preparing its own relief effort, individual Americans donated more than twice what any government sent to the relief of the survivors. That, to me, is what America is really about: a nation of good people, individuals who are willing to fight to defend not just their own rights, but what is right, around the world, and willing to give to help people in need, anywhere in the world. That is why I am proud to be an American.

As Bill Bennett just put it on his show, "The first ones in were Special Forces and churches--that's America!"

Ditto to both your comments!

Best Regards, Vick

 

[Aleš]

That, to me, is what America is really about: a nation of good people, individuals who are willing to fight to defend not just their own rights, but what is right, around the world, and willing to give to help people in need, anywhere in the world. That is why I am proud to be an American.

Dont make me laugh!
How easy you all forgot what happened in New Orleans.
We all see in the television what happened there and that your country need to put their your own soldiers to protect your own people property and lives,....this is what i am talking about,what it is happened in New Orleans can not happened in my country,never.We really help each other building houses,and we respect our own dead or alive.
About south asia or haiti,...my country also send help to those places but the thing is that USA have 300+ milion people of population so they give 300+ millions of dollars but my country have 2 million of population and give 2 million,...but that is because we are 150 times smaller population but that do not mean that we send little amount of monney,....if you will calculate you will see that our people give the same monney as USA or other big countrys by the number(per percentage) of population live in my or your country....so from my waulet go the same ammount of monney for this people as it goes from your waulet only that the final amount is bigger because you are a bigger population nation,....but i pay the same as you.

 

[DCN1898]

With all due respect, it's apparent that you don't really understand the United States or its people. Our diversity is what makes us strong.

Also, it has been immigrants, sometimes not even citizens yet who have made the ultimate sacrifice for the U.S.A. Sometimes the fact that you chose the country and the promise that the U.S.has always held out to the world, (Not necessarily the reality.) brings out stronger emotions in people.