What was the Delhi Durbar 1903? (2 Viewers)

[thebritfarmer]

Looks like it will be another wonderful additional to the Durbar.

A very Merry Christmas to you and your family too Ana.

 

[Ana Donzino]

Thank you, Scott!!!

 

[Ana Donzino]

Hi! Happy 2022 to all!

I have a couple of questions regarding the elephants schedule. I would love to have the whole Main Procession from the very beginning, but I want to ask for your opinions about them.

First question is about the two official elephants that were in front of all the elephants. Lord Curzon's elephant, and the Duke of Connaught's. I'd go for Curzon's elephant first, but I'd like to know how many of you have the Britain's version. I've always planned my elephants to complete the ones that hadn't been made, so we could go for the whole parade between all the companies that are or have made anything from the period. If most of you have the Britain's version I wouldn't make it, I don't think it'd be worth it. What do you think?



Thanks to all. Second question in a couple of days. Take care,

Ana

 

[TheDurbarMan]

Hi! Happy 2022 to all!

I have a couple of questions regarding the elephants schedule. I would love to have the whole Main Procession from the very beginning, but I want to ask for your opinions about them.

First question is about the two official elephants that were in front of all the elephants. Lord Curzon's elephant, and the Duke of Connaught's. I'd go for Curzon's elephant first, but I'd like to know how many of you have the Britain's version. I've always planned my elephants to complete the ones that hadn't been made, so we could go for the whole parade between all the companies that are or have made anything from the period. If most of you have the Britain's version I wouldn't make it, I don't think it'd be worth it. What do you think?

View attachment 284193

Thanks to all. Second question in a couple of days. Take care,

Ana

Hi Ana

Happy New Year! You may be aware that Marlborough also produced a viceregal elephant and WM Hocker also produces a viceregal elephant which although for the earlier Durbar nevertheless works well as part of any Durbar display.

The Marlborough and WM Hocker elephants are not very tall - considering the historical records mentioned the two main elephants in the procession were the tallest elephants in India at that time, the height of these two elephants is important! I have had to put wooden bases under my Marlborough and WM Hocker sets to try to make them taller than your 6 Aides de Camps elephants. The Marlborough version’s howdah is also too big.

The Britains versions are made of resin not lead/metal but their howdahs appear to be very detailed models of the real versions.

I have attached photos of the Marlborough, WM Hocker and Britains versions that I have in my collection.

Best wishes

 

[Ana Donzino]

Hi Ana

Happy New Year! You may be aware that Marlborough also produced a viceregal elephant and WM Hocker also produces a viceregal elephant which although for the earlier Durbar nevertheless works well as part of any Durbar display.

The Marlborough and WM Hocker elephants are not very tall - considering the historical records mentioned the two main elephants in the procession were the tallest elephants in India at that time, the height of these two elephants is important! I have had to put wooden bases under my Marlborough and WM Hocker sets to try to make them taller than your 6 Aides de Camps elephants. The Marlborough version’s howdah is also too big.

The Britains versions are made of resin not lead/metal but their howdahs appear to be very detailed models of the real versions.

I have attached photos of the Marlborough, WM Hocker and Britains versions that I have in my collection.

Best wishes

Wow! Thank you for the photos! They are wonderful. They are perfect, they can be seen side by side. Thanks!
I knew that Bill (Hocker) had made one from the previous Durbar, which I think is exquisite. I also believe that Britains' has the best howda, the most accurate. If I decide to go for the Curzons' elephant it will be the real size.

Again, great pictures. Thanks!

Ana

 

[Andanna]

Not a completist by any means, but a purist. I generally do not mix manufacturers in displays and certainly not in this case. Style, quality and scale are just too different.

 

[TheDurbarMan]

Not a completist by any means, but a purist. I generally do not mix manufacturers in displays and certainly not in this case. Style, quality and scale are just too different.

Hi, I respect you are a purist and think your displays using sets from a single manufacturer look great. I personally like the variation between different manufacturers as the photos from the Durbar show that there were elephants and people of all different shapes and sizes and by combining different manufacturers I get to recreate that in my displays.

 

[Ana Donzino]

I like both your collections, and respect both points of view. As long as you have my Beau Geste elephants...

Ana

 

[TheDurbarMan]

I like both your collections, and respect both points of view. As long as you have my Beau Geste elephants...

Ana

Thanks Ana! I am very proud to have many of your masterpieces in my collection!

 

[Ana Donzino]

I know, and it is an honour for me to have you among my Delhi Durbar collectors! Thank you!

Ana

 

[Andanna]

Hi, I respect you are a purist and think your displays using sets from a single manufacturer look great. I personally like the variation between different manufacturers as the photos from the Durbar show that there were elephants and people of all different shapes and sizes and by combining different manufacturers I get to recreate that in my displays.

no problem. I like your display a lot. Maybe I revise my point of view at some point.

 

[Ana Donzino]

Your display is absolutely impecable, Andreas. You should be very proud :smile2:

Ana

 

[Ana Donzino]

Hi again,

Well, here is my second question. You know that I want to portrait the whole Main Procession, and Daniel and I have been making the elephants from both columns in order to achieve that. I am still far from completing it, but I've always had a pending issue about the first elephants of the procession. I've mentioned Lord Curzon's and the Duke of Connaught's elephants in my previous post, and now I wanted to mention the first two elephants of the Indian Princes: Hyderabad and Mysore. The State Elephant of Hyderabad has been made by Britains:




and by Bill Hocker (excellent group), from the Durbar from 1877


I can see that TheDurbarMan has them both


This is such an important elephant. The State of Hyderabad was the most prosperous states of all the country. It has to be in a Delhi Durbar of 1903 collection. So I want to make it. It will depend on how many of you already have it and would be willing to buy another. It is ALL yellow and gold and I will need to do some special painting work on the yellow to make it look as beautiful as my other elephants. It is difficult for a plain color to beat the richness of the other elephants clothes. But it will be a challenge, and I am willing to take it. I still have many other elephants to make, but it will be in my list sooner or later.


The elephant by his side was the Maharaja of Mysore's one. There is one excellently made by Bill Speer, and exquisitely painted by Kay Speer, but probably only one or two of you have it and I am almost sure that it is sadly not possible to order it any more. I will make this one too, at any point.



I'd like to read your comments. Do you like them, would you like them made. Let me know

Have a great Sunday (from hot hot summer South),

Ana

 

[TheDurbarMan]

Hi Ana, hope you are well. My personal thoughts are that the Mysore elephant is the one you may want to consider making as the versions by Marlborough and Royal Express (Bill & Kay Speer) are great but not entirely accurate. I have both of these too and attach photos.

The Marlborough version has the wrong jhool (saddle cloth) and the Ambari (name for Howdah with roof) is wrong (it only has one dome and one finial whereas the real Ambari had two).

The Royal Express version has a wooden Ambari which is a basic box shape and missed the front canopy, domes and finials. The elephant’s headdress is also silver when it should actually be gold.

There are some excellent clear photos of the Mysore state elephant from 1903 and the Golden Ambari is actually still used to this day every year in Mysore to celebrate the Hindu festival of Dassera. You can find pictures of you look for the Golden Howdah/Golden Ambari/Mysore Dassera Festival.

Best wishes

 

[TheDurbarMan]

Hi Ana

In case of interest to you, I attach a picture of an Ambari from a museum in Hyderabad. I’m not sure if it is the same as used in the 1903 Durbar but very similar. What makes me doubt if it’s the actual one from the 1903 Durbar is the number of finials. This one has two but I think the one used in the 1903 Durbar had 3 finials (I’ve never found a clear enough photo to confirm this - please let me know if you have any clear photos). It’s interesting that the Ambari from the museum has a red roof. Most sources seem to say the Hyderabad elephant was all yellow but I have seen at least one painting in the past which showed the Hyderabad elephant was dressed in red.

Another interesting fact I read (not sure if true) is the Hyderabad elephant only had one tusk and was wearing another false tusk - there was a photo of the Hyderabad elephant relaxing after/before the procession which shows it had one tusk).

Best wishes

 

[TheDurbarMan]

Here’s a picture of the painting I referred to in my earlier post showing a red Ambari on the Hyderabad elephant

 

[Ana Donzino]

Thank you, J. You are always SO generous with your knowledge, that goes way farther than mine. And thanks for your thoughts, they are really useful. I will make the Mysore elephant before the Hyderabad one. You are right about that the ones already made are not strictly accurate. It is also VERY beautiful!

I found the golden ambari. It is simply exquisite.


Thank you so much for sharing, I really appreciate it

Ana

Hi Ana, hope you are well. My personal thoughts are that the Mysore elephant is the one you may want to consider making as the versions by Marlborough and Royal Express (Bill & Kay Speer) are great but not entirely accurate. I have both of these too and attach photos.

The Marlborough version has the wrong jhool (saddle cloth) and the Ambari (name for Howdah with roof) is wrong (it only has one dome and one finial whereas the real Ambari had two).

The Royal Express version has a wooden Ambari which is a basic box shape and missed the front canopy, domes and finials. The elephant’s headdress is also silver when it should actually be gold.

There are some excellent clear photos of the Mysore state elephant from 1903 and the Golden Ambari is actually still used to this day every year in Mysore to celebrate the Hindu festival of Dassera. You can find pictures of you look for the Golden Howdah/Golden Ambari/Mysore Dassera Festival.

Best wishes

 

[Ana Donzino]

Hi again,

I looked through my photos and found a couple that might clarify the question about the finials.






Let me know if the three finials can be seen clearly. I'm always trying to keep the kb of my images to the minimum, but I can work something out a bit better if needed. Just let me know.

Excellent information about the task!!! I would LOVE to see the picture of the elephant resting, without his tooth


Ana

Hi Ana

In case of interest to you, I attach a picture of an Ambari from a museum in Hyderabad. I’m not sure if it is the same as used in the 1903 Durbar but very similar. What makes me doubt if it’s the actual one from the 1903 Durbar is the number of finials. This one has two but I think the one used in the 1903 Durbar had 3 finials (I’ve never found a clear enough photo to confirm this - please let me know if you have any clear photos). It’s interesting that the Ambari from the museum has a red roof. Most sources seem to say the Hyderabad elephant was all yellow but I have seen at least one painting in the past which showed the Hyderabad elephant was dressed in red.

Another interesting fact I read (not sure if true) is the Hyderabad elephant only had one tusk and was wearing another false tusk - there was a photo of the Hyderabad elephant relaxing after/before the procession which shows it had one tusk).

Best wishes

 

[Ana Donzino]

Here’s a picture of the painting I referred to in my earlier post showing a red Ambari on the Hyderabad elephant

The truth about the color is always one of the main issues that I face at the time of painting the elephants. We know that yellow photographed black, as well as the red color. But the thing about this elephant is that, as Hyderabad was in front of all the other Princely States elephants, it was one of the most described elephants. And all descriptions mention it as golden yellow. I have all the texts written about the Durbar, and most of the newspapers, and I wish they'd keep on describing all the procession with the same enthusiasm that they described the elephants in front.That would have answered a lot of questions for me.

I guess we'll never know for sure


Ana

 

[TheDurbarMan]

Hi Ana

Thanks for sharing the photos of the Hyderabad finials - definitely three!

You will probably have seen the attached photo of the Mysore elephant but I thought I would share as it is my favourite!

Best wishes