While we're on the subject--which movies are you proud to say you've never seen? (1 Viewer)

[Evzone]

I know some Americans who found Borat very funny.

Can't stand most of Mel Gibson's films because they are historically inaccurate and in some cases utterly anti-English/British to the point of distortion of the truth.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I know some Americans who found Borat very funny.

Can't stand most of Mel Gibson's films because they are historically inaccurate and in some cases utterly anti-English/British to the point of distortion of the truth.

It is unfortunate that his films are sometimes taken that way I think. We have been around on this on the Patriot but I must confess with the upmost affection for my UK friends that I have never found them so. Query, if the bad guy has a British accent or wears a British army uniform, does that make the film anti British? Is "A Few Good Men" anti Marine Corps? Is Zulu racist or anti Dutch? Perhaps some films do merit that lablel but I am reluctant to assign it without much more evidence than I have seen for any of his.

As to the inaccuracies, I can only repeat my standard observation: if you want accuracy in an historical film, watch a documentary (as long as it is not done by Michael Moore). As we have often discussed movies are intended to entertain (for the obvious purpose of making money) and while they are more enjoyable to many of us here when they more accurately depict uniforms, equipment and even the "accepted view" of events, those things cost money and can actually compromise box office appeal. There is no doubt that the vast majority of moviegoers could care less and the popular spin is usually the safest course. So while we all are free to like and dislike movies for any reason, even inaccuracy, I frankly like movies as movies and am exceedingly grateful when I get more accuracy because I know what a courageous decision that likely meant for the producers/director.

 

[Evzone]

A fair assessment and an interesting viewpoint, but neither of his 'box office epics' bare much resemblance to fact to my mind. Such stories help shape popularist view especially in a society where it's easier to watch than read.

I have seen Braveheart! It's a cracking yarn but not The Patriot -I'll get round ti it one day (..begrungingly )

 

[Spitfrnd]

A fair assessment and an interesting viewpoint, but neither of his 'box office epics' bare much resemblance to fact to my mind. Such stories help shape popularist view especially in a society where it's easier to watch than read.

I have seen Braveheart! It's a cracking yarn but not The Patriot -I'll get round ti it one day (..begrungingly )

Fair enough. I can appreciate your perspective but I think The Patriot is also a cracking good yarn and I candidly believe that it has been unfairly criticized for being anti-British and ignoring the true history of slavery. I think this point is well made on one front by a NY Times article shortly after its release: "There is no question that The Patriot takes liberties with the historical record, but so does another recent epic, Glory, which was not attacked for serving up bad history. In the case of Glory, critics recognized that there was what Mr. Bernstein called 'a truth truer than the literal truth' and were therefore willing to forgive historical inaccuracies. Perhaps the Glory standard should be applied when judging The Patriot. The Times goes on to note that "The deeper truth of this movie was well stated by David Horowitz. The Patriot, he writes, 'reassembles the elements of the national myth into a powerful homage to liberty and to the American colonists who gave their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to its cause.'

On the details, film shows the British regulars as far superior to the Continentals in a stand up fight; this was true. The film's lead character is certainly portrayed as a "flawed hero", whose earlier savage conduct in war is ignited by the murder of his son by British Colonel William Tavington. While understandable, this conduct and Tavington's brutality is contrasted against the predominantly civilized British conduct of the war. Unlike his senior officers and even colleagues, Tavington is shown to believe in war without limits and that it is justified to kill any American, regardless of age, when it suits his purpose. This belief in so call "total war" is hardly a unique idea for a soldier and the film goes to some lengths to display this as a very personal attitude. In that regard, Tavington is played exceptionally well by a fine British actor, Jason Isaacs.

Just as Gibson's character is loosely based on Francis Marion, Tavington's is said to be based on Lt Colonel Banstre Tarleton. Tarleton was involved in trying to catch Marion and is said to have very much believed in total war. While there is little doubt that Tarleton was not as ruthless as Tavington, he did commit a number of excesses, including denying quarter to captured militia on more than one occasion. He also was responsible for losing the battle of Cowpens which was rather well depicted by the film (apart from Cornwallis' participation). So while Tavington's character's conduct seems inflammatory to a degree, it is based on some precedent and clearly established as very personal to him. I can hardly see how that would make even an average person feel anti British.

By contrast, Cornwallis was portrayed as a gentleman, dog lover and a genius that knew he had to crush the American resistance before the French intervened; this was also true. His character was also played superbly by Tom Wilkinson. In fact, to me, it is the fine acting of Wilkinson and Issacs that nearly runs away with the movie. Gibson is not nearly as comfortable or convincing with his role.

Thus while the Patriot over vilifies one British Dragoon for his over zealous and egregious war crimes and is overly sentimental in many areas, I think its factual flaws should be forgiven, just as they were for Glory. Of course, I appreciate that Glory does not present the same sensitivity for our British friends. I also think it hardly deserves being branded anti British and if you will permit me to try an walk in those shoes, I humbly suggest that I don't think I would feel that way as a Brit either.

 

[1879fanatic]

Fair enough. I can appreciate your perspective but I think The Patriot is also a cracking good yarn and I candidly believe that it has been unfairly criticized for being anti-British and ignoring the true history of slavery. I think this point is well made on one front by a NY Times article shortly after its release: "There is no question that The Patriot takes liberties with the historical record, but so does another recent epic, Glory, which was not attacked for serving up bad history. In the case of Glory, critics recognized that there was what Mr. Bernstein called 'a truth truer than the literal truth' and were therefore willing to forgive historical inaccuracies. Perhaps the Glory standard should be applied when judging The Patriot. The Times goes on to note that "The deeper truth of this movie was well stated by David Horowitz. The Patriot, he writes, 'reassembles the elements of the national myth into a powerful homage to liberty and to the American colonists who gave their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to its cause.'

On the details, film shows the British regulars as far superior to the Continentals in a stand up fight; this was true. The film's lead character is certainly portrayed as a "flawed hero", whose earlier savage conduct in war is ignited by the murder of his son by British Colonel William Tavington. While understandable, this conduct and Tavington's brutality is contrasted against the predominantly civilized British conduct of the war. Unlike his senior officers and even colleagues, Tavington is shown to believe in war without limits and that it is justified to kill any American, regardless of age, when it suits his purpose. This belief in so call "total war" is hardly a unique idea for a soldier and the film goes to some lengths to display this as a very personal attitude. In that regard, Tavington is played exceptionally well by a fine British actor, Jason Isaacs.

Just as Gibson's character is loosely based on Francis Marion, Tavington's is said to be based on Lt Colonel Banstre Tarleton. Tarleton was involved in trying to catch Marion and is said to have very much believed in total war. While there is little doubt that Tarleton was not as ruthless as Tavington, he did commit a number of excesses, including denying quarter to captured militia on more than one occasion. He also was responsible for losing the battle of Cowpens which was rather well depicted by the film (apart from Cornwallis' participation). So while Tavington's character's conduct seems inflammatory to a degree, it is based on some precedent and clearly established as very personal to him. I can hardly see how that would make even an average person feel anti British.

By contrast, Cornwallis was portrayed as a gentleman, dog lover and a genius that knew he had to crush the American resistance before the French intervened; this was also true. His character was also played superbly by Tom Wilkinson. In fact, to me, it is the fine acting of Wilkinson and Issacs that nearly runs away with the movie. Gibson is not nearly as comfortable or convincing with his role.

Thus while the Patriot over vilifies one British Dragoon for his over zealous and egregious war crimes and is overly sentimental in many areas, I think its factual flaws should be forgiven, just as they were for Glory. Of course, I appreciate that Glory does not present the same sensitivity for our British friends. I also think it hardly deserves being branded anti British and if you will permit me to try an walk in those shoes, I humbly suggest that I don't think I would feel that way as a Brit either.

Bill,
What are your thoughts on Apocalypto, a movie that I can watch day or night? I'd appreciate any insight historically, since I don't know too much about the Maya and the period.
If you've seen it
Mike

 

[kilted vampire]

I never saw "Gigli" with Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen more than 30 seconds of her on screen, and I don't really care if I never do.

Never saw it. I hear it was a total miss!

And I've never seen the "Saw" movies. Well, I caught about 5 minutes of the first one, I think it was, with Cary Elwes, on Sci-Fi or TBS, not sure which. I find the whole premise distasteful.

Never saw any of them and won't for the same reasons.

For starters, any of these painfully sounding CHICK FLICKS....

Waiting to Exhale
The Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants
Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe



​

Totally lame missed 'em all!

Forrest Gump -the trailer makes me cringe-indeed I've noted that the more people tell me that I've "got to see..." the more nauseatingly impossible it becomes.John

My mama alway said that movies are like a box of chocolates... You never know what you're goin' ta get.

Twilight. The same goes for reading the book.

The newest animated Star Wars movie. Alas, I'd like to be able to say I hadn't seen the newest trilogy. (This is coming from a fan of the old trilogy)

I skip the horror-ish genre completely as well as stupid, crass guy humor movies. In fact, there are few movies that we even bother to go see. The odd thing is, I like comic book movies, but then, it's hard to be disappointed when expectations are low already.

Cary Elwes in Saw?? Say it ain't so!

I was going to give the cartoons a miss but they were OK.

Frankly this site does not have sufficient bandwidth for me to list all of those. I have watched and enjoyed (in varying degrees) thousands of movies and certainly regretted a few hundred but there are also many thousands that I am proud to have avoided. Generally these would include all those in the cannibal, slasher and splatter horror sub genres, most zombie, biker, Bollywood (but certainly not the actresses) and gross-out films and Borat. In defense of "chick flicks", I am unabashed to say I rather like the majority of them, including such classics as The Philadelphia Story, A League of Their Own, Notting Hill, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Pretty Woman, Bridget Jones's Diary, His Girl Friday and Notorious.

Saw all of those except Notorious.

The Sound of Music and I am extremely proud I have never seen it.

Did you see Mary Poppins?


I would like to add my sentiments to Bills about the Braveheart/Patriot remarks. They are movies that I watch all the time. I will say that Gibson seems to hate the British and seems to gleefully hack them apart. I was an armchair feinian for a longtime but I was young then.Oddly enough One part of my Irish family lived in England for more than a hundred years. Anyways with all the firends I have there now the Feinian side has gone dormant. I love the people there and everywhere. Governments.........

 

[Simpson & his donkey.]

I have three daughters all younger than 8 years.
I have watched Barbie of Pegasus, Barbie of Swan Lake and Barbie of Fantasia.
I am not ashamed to say that in public
Anyone here want to make something of that

I have seen all of these movies as my daughter is a Barbie nut and loves these movies to death.I can't even think of making a noise when they are on. I have to give her turn as somethimes she watches my war doco's with me and likes them as well.Simmo.

 

[Simpson & his donkey.]

My wife wants to rent broken back mountain but there is no way I will take it up to the young girls at my local video shop and rent it out.Men kissing men not my cup of tea.Simmo.

 

[UKReb]

Reb

Did you see Mary Poppins?


I would like to add my sentiments to Bills about the Braveheart/Patriot remarks. They are movies that I watch all the time. I will say that Gibson seems to hate the British and seems to gleefully hack them apart.

Vamp

Mary Poppins? Never heard of it!

And re: Mr Gibson's hating the British-Yeah I suppose he does but you got to admit we tend to make the best villians on screen-any film that has a nasty guy in the cast five will get you ten he will be played by a Brit- it must be something about our accents

Reb

 

[Oldboy]

My mama alway said that movies are like a box of chocolates... You never know what you're goin' ta get.

oook, I'll blissfully and ignorantly imagine this must be a quote (mutation?) from "that film". Mama IS correct ,especially if the box includes "crunchy frog" or "spring surprise".
Mary Poppins?
is a self-replicating viral infection

Braveheart & that AWI one are movies that I wish to Goddess I could include with Gump in my proud never to have seen list-Nauseating drivel (Foul fiend seize him!).
I certainly wouldn't think any less of anyone who loves these movies(digvstabvs...) and this (here comes the ad hominem) from a guy who finds "Color Me Kubrick" wickedly funny
Best,John

 

[Spitfrnd]

....And re: Mr Gibson's hating the British-Yeah I suppose he does but you got to admit we tend to make the best villians on screen-any film that has a nasty guy in the cast five will get you ten he will be played by a Brit- it must be something about our accents
....

Well as many great actors have said, anyone can play a hero but it takes a true talent to do justice to a villian. In my book, Jason Isaacs is a true talent and makes the film worth watching for his performance alone. He had the kind of performance that makes you want to find more of his films to see more of his work. Great accent as well.

 

[Rob]

I know some Americans who found Borat very funny.

Can't stand most of Mel Gibson's films because they are historically inaccurate and in some cases utterly anti-English/British to the point of distortion of the truth.

I guess you all are expecting me to come in here because i have been saying this for years!.However i can appreciate my mate Spitfrnd's view on this too.Lets just say i don't like Gibson either as a film maker or person.They say a guys true nature comes out when he's drunk,say no more


Never seen never want to;

Mamma Mia
Flashdance
Sleepless in Seattle
Rocky 69 or whatever number its up to now
Saw
Halloween remake
Rambo 56 'This time its crap'
Any Elvis Presley film
Raise the Titanic
Stop or my mom will shoot
Home Alone 16 'Alone in the cinema'
Saturday Night fever
Any film with Vinny Jones
Any Film with Phil Collins
Any film in which Sting plays the Lute

Rob

 

[Rob]

And i know you won't believe this...All of the Star Wars films,yep true i'm afraid.

Rob

 

[1879fanatic]

I have seen all of these movies as my daughter is a Barbie nut and loves these movies to death.I can't even think of making a noise when they are on. I have to give her turn as somethimes she watches my war doco's with me and likes them as well.Simmo.

Yep, moi ausi, unfortunately. However, my 8-year old loves Zulu and I am Legend as much as me.
Mike

 

[Rob]

Yep, moi ausi, unfortunately. However, my 8-year old loves Zulu and I am Legend as much as me.
Mike

Zulu was the first war film i ever saw and is one of my alltime faves.I remember my dad took me to see it on a big screen in Leicester Square.I never forget the Zulu singing and 'Men of Harlech'.Don't make em like that anymore.

Like 'I am Legend' too.

Rob

 

[aujj65]

I don't gel my hair.
That is for the kind of boys who play soccer.

Then you need to see "Something about Mary" then.

Jeff

 

[lancer]

On the subject of "I Am Legend" with Will Smith, this is a least the third remake based on the book. "Last Man on Earth" with Vincent Price (done in the 50's, I think) and "Omega Man" with Chuck Heston (1970ish) were the earlier versions. All 3 are good movies with their own take on the book. There was no happy ending in the book and only the Price version reflects this in the movies. I liked the Will Smith version and it's setting in NY city. -- lancer

 

[Rob]

On the subject of "I Am Legend" with Will Smith, this is a least the third remake based on the book. "Last Man on Earth" with Vincent Price (done in the 50's, I think) and "Omega Man" with Chuck Heston (1970ish) were the earlier versions. All 3 are good movies with their own take on the book. There was no happy ending in the book and only the Price version reflects this in the movies. I liked the Will Smith version and it's setting in NY city. -- lancer

I agree,great setting and sad but good ending.I'd like to see Vincent Price version too.

Rob

 

[Spitfrnd]

...They say a guys true nature comes out when he's drunk,say no more
...

Bloody Nora, I certainly hope not; I am moved to sing, which is NOT a good thing.

 

[UKReb]

On the subject of "I Am Legend" with Will Smith, this is a least the third remake based on the book. "Last Man on Earth" with Vincent Price (done in the 50's, I think) and "Omega Man" with Chuck Heston (1970ish) were the earlier versions. All 3 are good movies with their own take on the book. There was no happy ending in the book and only the Price version reflects this in the movies. I liked the Will Smith version and it's setting in NY city. -- lancer

But.....but......but.....Lancer.......Smith killed his dog- he actually killed his dog! and in all American films the dog always survives

Reb