Who Made the 1st 1/30 Polystone Armor (3 Viewers)

[katana]

Toy Soldier polystone armor first changed from 1/32 to 1/30 around 2006. Who was the first manufacturer to make 1/30 armor; the Honor Bound Panther A, TCS armor or another manufacturer?
K&C and Figarti both changed armor size in response to who ever the first to produce 1/30 was and thus standardised the new size.

 

[katana]

1/30th scale is an old scale for armor, first used in the late 1960s by Bandai and Minicraft/Nichimo. Monogram was making 1/32 armor and Tamiya was just starting in 1/35 scale armor models. A Tiger I, Panther, Panzer IV, Jagdpanzer and Hummel were available as good quality model kits from Bandai and Minicraft. Tamiya consolidated armor models into 1/35 scale; which continues until today as the major scale for military model kits.

About 2004 21st Century Toys produced a number of prebuilt and painted Panzers in 1/30 scale.
The new line was called Cold Steel and had a Die Cast Metal Deck and Glacis runninig the full top length of the vehicle. I have measured two of the Cold Steel Panzers; A Panzer IV H and a Stug IV.
The Cold Steel Panzers are both 1/30 scale in width, height and length and are compatable with WWII 60mm figures from both W. Britains and First Legion.

About 2006 the first polystone armor in 1/30 scale was introduced by either NMA or Honor Bound.
Both companies introduced 1/30 scale armor about the same time; so it is difficult to determine who was first. The excellent Honor Bound Panther A , took polystone armor to a whole new level of quality, detail and realism. Figarti and King & Country switched to the 1/30 scale from 1/32 scale a few years later. First legion started in 1/30 scale armor and 60mm figures; that feature excellent size compatability for serious diorama builders. Even W. Britains has migrated to 1/30 scale as their excellent website proclaims; matte figures are now 58-60mm!

Anyone that can provide corrections and/or more details about the evolution of 1/30 scale would be greatly appreciated.

 

[OzDigger]

The Cold Steel line is actually 1/32 scale being based on 21St Century plastic versions, they have a metal chassis to make them heavy. Of course you've already been told this, now you're just in denial.

 

[katana]

The mathmatics and measurements prove otherwise; as do the photographs. I am not stipulating that all 21stCentury Toys Cold Steel armor is 1/30 scale; just the two I have measured. The Pannzer IV and Stug IV of 2004. Other Cold Steel armor may or may not be 1/30 scale. I hope collectors will measure them and post the result so it will be known what figures would be compatable with which armor. Ditto for FOV; some are 1/30 scale like the M26.

The benifit of this research is a larger pool of compatable inexpensive armor for dioramas etc. I woud much rather punch holes in a $30.00 21st Century Panzer IV to portray a knocked out Panzer than a very expensive First Legion Panzer!

 

[OzDigger]

You should research these subjects before you post pictures and make sweeping statements, all those tank models you mentioned are true to scale 1/32, including the FOV M26. Clearly your measurements are incorrect {sm0}

 

[katana]

You are entitled to your own opinion; but not your own facts. Mathmatics does not lie!

I hope other collectors who own these pieces will measure them and post their results.

I would also like to determine who originated 1/30 scale polystone armor models. I have narrowed it down to NMA or Honor Bound circa 2006. Do You Know Matt?

 

[OzDigger]

You are entitled to your own opinion; but not your own facts. Mathmatics does not lie!

I hope other collectors who own these pieces will measure them and post their results.

I would also like to determine who originated 1/30 scale polystone armor models. I have narrowed it down to NMA or Honor Bound circa 2006. Do You Know Matt?

Facts are facts and incorrect measuring procedures produces incorrect dimensions. King and Country issued some 1/30 scale tanks before NMA and Honour Bound. Honour Bound models were praised because of their finer detail especially in the track area. However the paint work on their standard issues wasn't very realistic apart from Winter versions which were ok. And they made some basic errors such as having the Tiger turret too far forward, and no sloping roof on their JP. Not that other companies haven't made basic errors, and will continue to do so no doubt.

 

[katana]

Parallax error is a problem with this quick photo setup; however it is sufficiently accurate to prove the veracity of my measurements to an objective observer. I chose to use a scale rather than a digital caliper; so I could not be accused of fudging the calibration! You have the data; do the calculations and tell me what the 21Century Panzer IV scale is?

 

[jazzeum]

You are entitled to your own opinion; but not your own facts. Mathmatics does not lie!

I hope other collectors who own these pieces will measure them and post their results.

I would also like to determine who originated 1/30 scale polystone armor models. I have narrowed it down to NMA or Honor Bound circa 2006. Do You Know Matt?

Katana,

In another thread we had this same discussion a week or two ago and I opined that it was K & C with some of their early Panthers (WS 23) and possibly the JP (WS 59). I'm surprised to see it so soon again. Figarti, in my opinion, switched to 1/30 so they could compete for the same customer as K & C. I'm also not aware that NMA made armor but since it was long ago I may have forgotten.

Brad

 

[OzDigger]

"Parallax error is a problem with this quick photo setup; however it is sufficiently accurate to prove the veracity of my measurements to an objective observer. I chose to use a scale rather than a digital caliper; so I could not be accused of fudging the calibration! You have the data; do the calculations and tell me what the 21Century Panzer IV scale is?"

Parallax error is the least of the problems. I'm surprised a engineer uses wooden school rulers. You need to use a steel ruler, they have no extra length past the increments, and preferably millimetres rather than inches.

Also need the reference you're using for dimensions of the actual prototype.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Would be nice to see some TS manufacturers jump in here and help answer the Polystone question, but I suppose that could be viewed as sensitive information and a trade secret for want of a better word?

 

[katana]

Katana,

In another thread we had this same discussion a week or two ago and I opined that it was K & C with some of their early Panthers (WS 23) and possibly the JP (WS 59). I'm surprised to see it so soon again. Figarti, in my opinion, switched to 1/30 so they could compete for the same customer as K & C. I'm also not aware that NMA made armor but since it was long ago I may have forgotten.

Brad

NMA made a Lynx, a Tiger I, a Sturmtiger and an Sd Kfz 231 in 2006; only ten years ago. Time flys when you are having fun!

 

[katana]

"Parallax error is a problem with this quick photo setup; however it is sufficiently accurate to prove the veracity of my measurements to an objective observer. I chose to use a scale rather than a digital caliper; so I could not be accused of fudging the calibration! You have the data; do the calculations and tell me what the 21Century Panzer IV scale is?"

Parallax error is the least of the problems. I'm surprised a engineer uses wooden school rulers. You need to use a steel ruler, they have no extra length past the increments, and preferably millimetres rather than inches.

Also need the reference you're using for dimensions of the actual prototype.

The steel scales give reflections that cause problems in photos. The scale I used has high contrast and no reflections. The scale is calibrated in both inches and millimeters. The data source I use is Tanks-encyclopedia.com. A very good website fo armor specifications and history. I have posted the data before; but I will summarize here:

Full Size PZ IV H------------------------------------------21st Century Cold Steel PZ IV H Size-------------------Scale

Length 276"-----------------------------------------------------------------------9.0"-------------------------------------------------1/30.6

Width 112.8"---------------------------------------------------------------------3.8"-------------------------------------------------1/29.6

Height 105.6"---------------------------------------------------------------------3.5"-------------------------------------------------1/30.2

 

[katana]

Would be nice to see some TS manufacturers jump in here and help answer the Polystone question, but I suppose that could be viewed as sensitive information and a trade secret for want of a better word?

I would think that the manufacturer who brought 1/30 scale to the polystone armor Toy Soldier market would be proud of their achievement! K&C may have produced 1/30 scale pieces intermittantly over the years in wood, resin and polystone; but not consistantly until the Tunisian Tiger I in 2009. I consider Honor Bound and their Panther A as the first 1/30 scale polystone panzer to be manufactured consistantly and intentionaly in 1/30 scale starting in 2006.I would be happy to hear about other contenders for the originator.

 

[Warrior]

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I'm not sure what the point is you're trying to prove with these pictures, specifically the first one..............if this is a szie comparison between 21st Century and 21st Century Cold Steel versions, the tank on the top is clearly not side by side with the tank on the bottom, one appears longer than the other but in fact it it not? Color me confused.

Also, you're saying not all the Cold Steel tanks were 1/30th scale, just the two you have? Again, I'm confused.

Going back to a point I made yesterday; I don't think 21st Century would invest in new molds and tooling and make the Cold Steel versions larger than the original versions as again, those who collected the first run would not be happy that the second run versions are larger, it makes no sense from a cost or consumer standpoint.

After viewing all these posts and pictures with measurements and rulers and calculations, I need to go lay down in a dark room, my head is spinning.........^&confuse

 

[katana]

I'm not sure what the point is you're trying to prove with these pictures, specifically the first one..............if this is a szie comparison between 21st Century and 21st Century Cold Steel versions, the tank on the top is clearly not side by side with the tank on the bottom, one appears longer than the other but in fact it it not? Color me confused.

Also, you're saying not all the Cold Steel tanks were 1/30th scale, just the two you have? Again, I'm confused.

Going back to a point I made yesterday; I don't think 21st Century would invest in new molds and tooling and make the Cold Steel versions larger than the original versions as again, those who collected the first run would not be happy that the second run versions are larger, it makes no sense from a cost or consumer standpoint.

After viewing all these posts and pictures with measurements and rulers and calculations, I need to go lay down in a dark room, my head is spinning.........^&confuse

The photos are showing the size of the 21st Century Cold Steel panzer IV H in relation to the scale in inches in three views to indicate actual length. width and height. I only have the Cold Steel Panzer IV and Stug IV to measure and they may or may not be unique in their dimensions; so I cannot make a global statement that all Cold Steel PZ IV H and Stug IVs are 1/30 scale without more samples to measure. I have no idea why these two samples are 1/30 scale; but I believe that the Cold Steel Die Cast Metal upper hull modification changed the size from 1/32 to 1/30; when the tooling modified.

 

[The Military Workshop]

I think Brad is right. I am surprised to learn that NMA led the way. Not how I remember it but then again scale not been my thing.

Nice to see 21st Century plastic armour being shown to illustrate a thread discussing polystone. I seem to recall 21st Century went bust a few years ago. The FJ figure has featured in another thread in the last few days and is a Britains figure from 2009 and no longer available to buy.

I echo the thoughts of others that it would be good to have a seperate category for these discussions.

 

[jazzeum]

NMA made a Lynx, a Tiger I, a Sturmtiger and an Sd Kfz 231 in 2006; only ten years ago. Time flys when you are having fun!

Very few of these were made (and the Tiger, probably even less) so unless you or someone else has them and can confirm measurements, I don't think we can say that they were 1/30 as you yourself have said that what it may say on the box doesn't always match what's inside.

 

[katana]

Very few of these were made (and the Tiger, probably even less) so unless you or someone else has them and can confirm measurements, I don't think we can say that they were 1/30 as you yourself have said that what it may say on the box doesn't always match what's inside.

Brad I have the NMA Sd.Kfz 231and it is 1/30 scale. FYI the measurements are: Length 7.625, Width 2.750 and Height is 3.125. I posted a photo of it with a WB Fallschimjager on the WB thread about the new WB FJs. I wish TG would make another one with a top hatch that opens and a half figure for it. The figure that came with it is 60mm tall. The model is well made and detailed. The NMA Lynx, Tiger I and Sturmtiger turn up on Ebay fairly regularly.

 

[katana]

I think Brad is right. I am surprised to learn that NMA led the way. Not how I remember it but then again scale not been my thing.

Nice to see 21st Century plastic armour being shown to illustrate a thread discussing polystone. I seem to recall 21st Century went bust a few years ago. The FJ figure has featured in another thread in the last few days and is a Britains figure from 2009 and no longer available to buy.

I echo the thoughts of others that it would be good to have a seperate category for these discussions.

I am not certain who was first; but it was most likely either NMA or Honor Bound in 2006. No other manufacturer of polystone armor had made 1/30 scale pieces consistantly until than.

What catagory should posts like this one be in? I thought General Matte Discussion was appropriate as we are discussing matte polystone armor, figures and their history, compatability etc.