Who Really Killed John F. Kennedy (2 Viewers)

[PanzerAce1944]

Ding Ding Ding...Gentlemen Let's get ready to Rumble...........

Let's just say that I am not a believer at all that Lee Harvey Oswald shot and killed President John F. Kennedy. Here are the bits of information in which I have come to acquire over the last 25 plus years of research into this crime of the 20th Century.
1) Lee Harvey Oswalds Background: He enlisted in the Marines in his late teens.His marksmanship qualification rating was "marksman" the lowest rating possible other than unqualified. This is below the mid tier rating of sharpshooter and well below the top qualification rating of expert. His duties in the marines placed him in Japan performing the duties of monitoring the U-2 spy planes being flown over Russia.Here is his initial entry into the world of intelligence operations for the United States.During this time he recieved formal training to speak Russian through the equivalent of a defense language school. Once his proficiency of the language was
acquired he wound up in Russia.This is after he was out of the marines and wanted to defect to the Soviet Union.How is this financially possible by a lower enlisted marine ? He wound up returning to the U.S.after supposedly being rejected asylum from the Russians.So we allow a former marine who had knowledge of tracking U-2 spy planes and tried to renounce his U.S. citizenship back into the country without
detaining him or imprisonment ????
2) Next we have his actions at dealey plaza on the morning and afternoon of Nov 22
1963. If he fired the shots from the 6th floor of the Texas school book depository he then went down 3 flights of stairs unoticed by witnesses on the stairwell at the time and grabbed a soda from a coke machine ??? Was he told to be at the depository building as his handlers told him to be there ? Then the story goes Oswald went to his room ,grabbed a revolver and left on foot soon after shooting Dallas Police officer Tippett.One small problem here though.There were shell casings found at the scene of the shooting on the ground near Tippett.How does a revolver eject shells ? On top of that the shell casings were much shorter than those that would have been used by the revolver found on Oswald after his arrest.Likely from a
semi- automatic pistol !!!
3) The alleged weapon that was used to kill Kennedy. The Mannlicher Carcano rifle found in the alleged snipers nest had a horrible bolt action assembly which made it impossible to "Legitimately" fire as claimed.The scope was not even securely mounted to the weapon and was described as wobbly by some police at the scene
who viewed the rifle.
4) Shots Fired in Dealey Plaza: Assasination experts outside of the Warren Commission calculate between 7 to 10 shots were actually fired at JFK,likely from 3
firing positions forming a triangulated crossfire of the target. The first shot from the rear missed the limosine completely.Kennedy was then struck in the throat from the front,hit in the back twice while Govenor Connely was shot through the back,through
his wrist and into his thigh.This was from the Magic Bullet remember ? Going in and out of JFK and into connely causing all of those wounds while to 2 men yet found on a stretcher in Parkland hospital in near Pristine condition. Amazing isn't it ??? There is no refuting that JFK was shot from behind,but from 2 different gunmen !!!!
Then comes the logical question. If you are Oswald and did the shooting Why not shoot JFK from the front driving towards the depository versus shooting at a target moving away from you ? Plus add the fact that the Elm tree directly to the right front of the 6th floor window blocked a good portion of the angle from the 6th floor
and the limosine,making for an even tougher shot. All this being done by a Marksman
shooter with a trashy weapon ?????
5)Lastly The Fatal Head Shot: I have never known of an object to be shot and where the point of impact is the object craters out and explodes back toward the
point of origin.Anyone who takes the time to watch the fatal head shot as shown in the infamous zapruder film can very easily see that JFK was shot from a frontal direction.The right front temple area with the bullet mushrooming out and blasting out the back of his head. Law of physics.Quite simple.
6)Lee Harvey Oswalds Final Fate: If Oswald fired the shots and killed JFK because he wanted to draw attention to himself as doing a infamous act in the name of Marxism, then why would he emphatically maintain his innocense to the very end.He is clearly heard and seen on recorded coverage denying the shooting and stating that he was a "Patsy". Are those the actions of a professed killer of a president ????
7)Witnesses who wound up dead after the JFK assasination: There are nearly 100 people who saw something, knew someone,heard more than 3 shots fired or saw gunmen on the grassy knoll that "Mysteriously"turned up dead.Truly amazing coincidence is it not ????
8) Add the icing on the cake and Lee Harvey Oswald gets shot dead before he can be transported away from the Dallas Jail. Pick a fall guy, Blame him as the culprit and kill him before he can open his mouth. Add to that "his" killer Jack Ruby dies in Jail of cancer.Fits like a puzzle doesn't it ??????
9) The Final Question...Who Had the Most to Gain from JFK being Killed ???? Within days of Kennedy's death the presidential order to begin the withdrawal of U.S. troops
from Vietnam was reversed and a new Presidential order issued by the new President
Lyndon Baines Johnson esculated Americas involvement in Vietnam.

Now we were discussing Lee Harvey Oswald and the 6th floor window.......

 

[Louis Badolato]

I don't have any opinion and knowledge as to who killed JFK, but I will tell you one, completely true story tangentially related to the subject.

When I graduated from lawschool, my first job was as the 55th Law Clerk to United States District Court Judge Joe J. Fisher in the Eastern District of Texas, one of the greatest Federal Judges in the history of this nation. Judge Fisher was the brother in law of the head of the United States Senate Judiciary Committee in the 1950's, and one of Ike's apointments to the Federal Bench in 1958.

Judge Fisher was the senior partner of a firm called Fisher, Tonahill and Reavley. Tom Reavley, the junior partner became a highly respected Judge on the United States Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit. Joe Tonahill, the middle partner, was the attorney who defended Jack Ruby, the man who shot Lee Harvey Oswald.

Judge Fisher was a close friend of Lyndon B. Johnson, there were photos of LBJ in chambers with Judge Fisher, and I had an autographed photo of LBJ hanging on the wall in my office in chambers when I was the senior clerk.

Judge Fisher told me in no uncertain terms that Joe Tonahill knew the "real story" behind why Ruby shot Oswald, but would never say anything more about it. Not a thing. Not a hint. Just a knowing smile.

Sadly, Judge Fisher passed away, still on the bench, at the age of 93 about a dozen years ago. Whatever secrets Joe Tonahill may have imparted to Judge Fisher died with him. But I have to tell you, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in Chambers when Judge Fisher, Joe Tonahill, and very possibly LBJ had a discussion on the subject back in the late 1960's.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I have always felt that Lyndon Johnson was part of the plot and that it was high up Americans who engineered it. There are too many loose ends and covered up items - this would require a lot of influence from people in power.

Terry

 

[theBaron]

It was the Pentavirate, working in conjunction with the Illuminati and the Bilderberg Group.

 

[Louis Badolato]

It was the Pentavirate, working in conjunction with the Illuminati and the Bilderberg Group.

That **** Colonel Sanders! I hate him! He puts a secret ingredient in his chicken that makes you crave it fortnightly . . . ^&grin{sm4} A little Mike Myers reference.:wink2:

 

[theBaron]

"...with his wee, beady eyes!"

 

[jazzeum]

I have always felt that Lyndon Johnson was part of the plot and that it was high up Americans who engineered it. There are too many loose ends and covered up items - this would require a lot of influence from people in power.

Terry

I actually think it was many "phantom warriors." ^&grin

I thought the consensus was that it was the mob acting with Castro, getting revenge, not to mention that at that time Texas politics was very strange and acrimonious. One of the reasons JFK was in Texas was to mediate an escalating controversy between the forces of Governor Connolly and Senator Ralph Yarborough. There was concern that the acrimony could lead to the loss of Texas in the 64 election.

 

[Louis Badolato]

"...with his wee, beady eyes!"

That is one of my favorite comedies, all time. I also love the father picking on the little brother for having a huge head - "Its rather like Sputnik, round, but very pointy in places" or "he'll cry himself to sleep on his enormous pillow!"^&grin

Not to mention the cop best friend's interaction with Alan Arkin as the police captain. Brilliant stuff!^&grin

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I have always felt that Lyndon Johnson was part of the plot and that it was high up Americans who engineered it. There are too many loose ends and covered up items - this would require a lot of influence from people in power.

Terry

LBJ had a very shady past even prior to becoming Vice president. I wonder how many people know of the meeting that he attended in the suburbs of Dallas the night prior to the assasination at a private house party.One of the other guests there that night was Richard Nixon.(future president) Another fact to add about LBJ. He was just about ready to be in the spot light and be brought up on federal charges for financial misdoings.
Kennedy was campaining for re-election and knew that he did not want LBJ on the ticket as his running mate ! After the events of Nov.22 1963 unfolded LBJ was able to do a complete turn around relating to the events that were unfolding in his life and political career at the time. He literally went from losing his vice presidency and being indicted on charges to becoming the President of the United States.
A side note to add about the Warren Commission members. A man named Allen Dulles was one of the members of the commision.He was also the same man who was head of the CIA back in 1962 and was "Fired" by president Kennedy. Now he is going to be on a commision to give an unbiased answer as to who killed the president ?????? One more Warren Commision member. Gerald Ford (another future president) wow how about that ????? I truly think that it would be safe to say that the American people back then were given quite a well scripted story to swallow hook line and sinker. Todays generation would never buy such a tale as the one told back in 1963. There is no doubt in my mind that we as Americans live in a truly great country, among the very best but there are a few skeletons in our closets which are also a part of our history.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

"...with his wee, beady eyes!"

Focus !!!! Stay Focused ..... and the truth shall set you free !

 

[jazzeum]

Have you read the Robert Caro books about LBJ. Fascinating stuff, especially about how he stole the !948 Senatorial campaign.

My view of history, in general, is that nothing is as ever it appears.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Have you read the Robert Caro books about LBJ. Fascinating stuff, especially about how he stole the !948 Senatorial campaign.

My view of history, in general, is that nothing is as ever it appears.

Raise your glass. Cheeeers I would drink to that ! :smile2: I did read about LBJ and his antics during the Late 40's and on throughout his life. Would make your head spin !

 

[Gideon]

my understanding was that jfk had passed a presidential order removing the federal reserve from issuing currency and handing it back over to treasury.

after his assassination, no other president has attempted this.

i think there were a lot of factors leading to the killing of JFK and RFK. i believe, if we are ever allowed to know what happened, it'll be a typical story of greed, corruption, classicism and war for the good of the economy.

i don't think things are at all different now. just certain modes of thinking won out and are rearing their ugly heads now.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

my understanding was that jfk had passed a presidential order removing the federal reserve from issuing currency and handing it back over to treasury.

after his assassination, no other president has attempted this.

i think there were a lot of factors leading to the killing of JFK and RFK. i believe, if we are ever allowed to know what happened, it'll be a typical story of greed, corruption, classicism and war for the good of the economy.

i don't think things are at all different now. just certain modes of thinking won out and are rearing their ugly heads now.

I agree with these comments as they are true and valid points. Kicking around the Fed, Dismantling the CIA, wanting to pull out of Vietnam which would have put a damper on the military industrial complex,preventing it from unleashing its dollar driven fury and you have very easily the ingredients for eliminating the one man responsible for all of this.... JFK. Johnson was the just the right guy to have in position to lead the choir and "Make it Happen" !!! Ohhhh I need a cold Beer !!! {eek3}

 

[Combat]

I'm 100% convinced that Oswald did it and that he acted alone. Although everyone is entitled to their opinion and some are interesting that doesn't mean all opinions are reasonable or based in fact. When it comes to this issue there is no great debate. This is a very simple case with no "magic" bullets or larger conspiracy at work. Conspiracy theorists go to great lengths after the fact in attempt to shoehorn in various scenarios that couldn't possibly be plausible beforehand. Or they make implausible or factually incorrect claims like Oswald could not have descended a few flights of stairs to be seen in a lunchroom shortly after the shooting. People have done it within the known timeframe. In terms of framing Oswald. How would anyone know where he would be at the time of the shooting? If one person could account for him at the time of shooting then he can't be made a patsy. He is at work - but no one can account for him. Shooter on the grassy knoll? How do they know no one gets a picture? Dozens of cameras and witnesses. I stood there last week and although from Dealey plaza it appears to be a concealed location - from behind the fence you can see almost to Canada. It's wide open into a parking lot and downtown. A thousand people would have seen anyone there with a gun. Oswald was a "poor" marksman? Oswald was trained to shoot in the marines. He had experience with guns. If you take a look out that window, it's a clear and short shot. Someone who had never even fired a gun would make that shot 6 of 10. FBI tested the actual gun and it worked fine. Oswald would have practiced with it. The bullets from Kennedy match the rifle found on the sixth floor. The rifle can be traced to Oswald. Oswald works in that building. His wife confirms he stored the rifle at the home she was living in. There are pictures of Oswald holding the rifle. His wife confirms she took those pictures. His fingerprints are on the rifle, bag and the boxes found on the sixth floor from the shooting location. He is the only Book Depository employee to be unaccounted for after the shooting. He carried a long object wrapped in brown paper into the Depository that morning. He never visited his wife until the weekend. He shows up unexpectedly the day before the assassination. He leaves his money and wedding ring with his wife. Several people in Dealey Plaza give a description of the shooter that matches Oswald. These are not secret agents, but real people. Oswald is found hiding in a movie theater with a pistol. Who leaves the scene of a presidential assassination (where he is also supposed to be working) to go to the movies - after stopping at home to get his gun? His behavior is so suspicious that a citizen has called the police to report him entering the movie theater. There is a mountain of direct and circumstantial evidence that associates Oswald with this crime. All of which would have to be faked. It's not just unlikely, but actually impossible to have foreseen and made all the arrangements necessary to incriminate Oswald in some kind of patsy scenario. If you search on You Tube - you see claims that the driver of Kennedy's car shot him because the guy can be seen turning toward Kennedy just as the fatal shot is fired. {eek3} Some people believe this even though the guy is a secret service agent and you can see his hands. There are some real crazy theories. None of which hold water when you look into them. And most are downright wrong in the facts they present. However, people hear the various theories and allegations and think there must be something there. Oswald was a nobody. How could he kill such an icon like Kennedy? There must be more to it! However, this is a slam dunk. A grim quirk of fate that Kennedy's motorcade goes right by Oswald's building. Oswald doesn't even appear to have any personal or political issues with Kennedy. He just wants to be remembered in history. The irony is that he has pulled that off.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

A few important points to address here based on the previous statements made.
We don't even have to talk about Oswald's name to address the following events.

A) A railroad worker in the control tower by the name of Lee Bowers saw men behind the grassy knoll fence smoking cigarettes and one of them appeared to be holding a rifle at the moments just before the shooting started.Before he could testify before the Warren Commision he was "DEAD" amazing coincidence.
B) Why would scores and scores of people to include uniformed Dallas Police officers run up the grassy knoll immediately after the shots were fired ???? Were they"ALL"
dilusional ?????
C) An actual enhanced photo of a grassy knoll shooter"Badgeman" can be clearly seen, a muzzle blast in front of him wearing what clearly looks like a Dallas police uniform. What is this Fabrication???? See attached photo !
D) The last Gruesome aspect here is the fatal head shot to JFK. In my 20 years of active duty service in combat arms of the U.S.Army and being a graduate of the U.S. Army Sniper school never in my wildest dreams could I shoot a man in the back of his head and the point of entry would cause the head to be blasted out , leaving an entry wound the size of a grape fruit ?
Shooting from the "Front" with a bullet exiting the "Rear" of the skull would cause the projectile to mushroom out thus causing the Massive rear head wound.
E) Incriminating evidence of the accused: How hard is it really to place a weapon at the scene, crop a photo with the accused shooters head on it, pick a fall guy to take the blame and sell this to the American public ? Very easy especially when the accused is shot dead himself. Then the Killer of the accused dies in jail. ^&cool I have plead my case and now leave it up to you the forum members to join in on the discussion.

In this enhanced photo of the "Grassy Knoll" shooter thanks to modern technology you can clearly see this is a man wearing a Dallas police uniform with a bright flash in front of him.

 

[Mitch]

The US makes some great conspiracy theories for sure and, this remains the biggest.
Mitch

 

[theBaron]

The US makes some great conspiracy theories for sure and, this remains the biggest.
Mitch

I remember someone on the radio talking about this in the past year, possibly Michael Medved, that we Americans love a good conspiracy theory, going back to the founding of the Republic. In the 1790s, we hit the ground running, with conspiracy theories about the Illuminati, and it's never stopped since.

I mention Medved, too, because he has a regular feature on his show called Conspiracy Day, always scheduled as close to the full moon as possible, and in which he invites listeners to call in with their favorite theories to discuss them.

And there's another radio talk show devoted to conspiracy theories of all kinds, hosted by George Noury. Our local AM station plays it from midnight to 5AM. Many calls from truck drivers crossing the Rockies, or the Southwest, spotting UFOs.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Combat]

How about a simple example that diminishes any notion of a conspiracy? Oswald got the job at the Texas Book Depository because a neighbor of his wife's landlady told her they were hiring at the TBD. Not even the most hardened conspiracy theorists believes these ladies were Cuban agents or mafia connections or otherwise part of a plan to kill Kennedy. But that would have been an integral part of any conspiracy. Getting Oswald situated in a building to shoot or be framed as the shooter. However, it was a matter of chance that he was hired there.

And Oswald gets the job before there is any indication that Kennedy is coming to Dallas much less that his motorcade will go by the building. For any conspiracy scenario to make sense, you have to believe Oswald was placed in TSB to shoot Kennedy. Therefore, the conspirators would have to arrange for the neighbor to tell the landlady about the job (even though they were not part of the conspiracy) and ensure that she then made efforts to get the job for him. They would also have to ensure that he got hired (presumably the owner was not part of the conspiracy). The conspirators would also already know: 1) Kennedy was coming to Dallas (which hadn't even been considered when Oswald was hired) and 2) that he would drive by the TSB (no way to ensure that unless they were involved in planning the motorcade). The dots don't connect. When faced with an implausible solution (there was a conspiracy, it involved foreknowledge of decisions that hadn't been made, and would require the involvement of someone with control of the motorcade) and a simple solution (it was a crime of opportunity, Kennedy's car came by the building after Oswald was hired, Oswald saw the route of the motorcade in the paper, brought his gun to work and shot him) there is no question which is the more reasonable. To select an unreasonable (I would say impossible) scenario over a straightforward explanation tells you more about those who support conspiracy arguments than what actually happened.

 

[Mitch]

If it was that simple then the event would have been consigned to the annals of history.

There are some highly qualified people who believe there is more so, its never going to end and, I am sure some don't want it to. Its not just this event but the twin towers and a host of others Brad's response was illuminating for me.
Mitch