Who Really Killed John F. Kennedy (1 Viewer)

Combat said:
How about a simple example that diminishes any notion of a conspiracy? Oswald got the job at the Texas Book Depository because a neighbor of his wife's landlady told her they were hiring at the TBD. Not even the most hardened conspiracy theorists believes these ladies were Cuban agents or mafia connections or otherwise part of a plan to kill Kennedy. But that would have been an integral part of any conspiracy. Getting Oswald situated in a building to shoot or be framed as the shooter. However, it was a matter of chance that he was hired there.

And Oswald gets the job before there is any indication that Kennedy is coming to Dallas much less that his motorcade will go by the building. For any conspiracy scenario to make sense, you have to believe Oswald was placed in TSB to shoot Kennedy. Therefore, the conspirators would have to arrange for the neighbor to tell the landlady about the job (even though they were not part of the conspiracy) and ensure that she then made efforts to get the job for him. They would also have to ensure that he got hired (presumably the owner was not part of the conspiracy). The conspirators would also already know: 1) Kennedy was coming to Dallas (which hadn't even been considered when Oswald was hired) and 2) that he would drive by the TSB (no way to ensure that unless they were involved in planning the motorcade). The dots don't connect. When faced with an implausible solution (there was a conspiracy, it involved foreknowledge of decisions that hadn't been made, and would require the involvement of someone with control of the motorcade) and a simple solution (it was a crime of opportunity, Kennedy's car came by the building after Oswald was hired, Oswald saw the route of the motorcade in the paper, brought his gun to work and shot him) there is no question which is the more reasonable. To select an unreasonable (I would say impossible) scenario over a straightforward explanation tells you more about those who support conspiracy arguments than what actually happened.
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Exactly, I agree badge man shot Kennedy through the head. Case Closed.
 
Conspiracy theories are usually just harmless fun.
I enjoy reading about the Aliens at Roswell and the like.
 
The following questions still have not been answered on a one for one basis ***

1) Is this photo of the grassy knoll shooter an illusion ? How is this explained ?

2) Why did dozens of people run up to the grassy knoll after Kennedy was shot ?

3) How can up to 100 people who knew or saw something about the assasination
all mysteriously die ? What are the odds of that ?

4) Explain the fatal head shot ? Shooting out the whole back right side of Kennedy's
head from the rear with a Mannlicher Carcano round doesn't work ? A frontal shot would !!

Explain these few facts and I will be a believer that Oswald did it.

Other forum members out there please give your take on what you think really happened that day. No hard feelings gents. We are all expressing our own views and beliefs ! Back to Toy Soldiers ...Happy Collecting !
 

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PanzerAce1944 said:
The following questions still have not been answered on a one for one basis ***

1) Is this photo of the grassy knoll shooter an illusion ? How is this explained ?

2) Why did dozens of people run up to the grassy knoll after Kennedy was shot ?

3) How can up to 100 people who knew or saw something about the assasination
all mysteriously die ? What are the odds of that ?

4) Explain the fatal head shot ? Shooting out the whole back right side of Kennedy's
head from the rear with a Mannlicher Carcano round doesn't work ? A frontal shot would !!

Explain these few facts and I will be a believer that Oswald did it.

Other forum members out there please give your take on what you think really happened that day. No hard feelings gents. We are all expressing our own views and beliefs ! Back to Toy Soldiers ...Happy Collecting !
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I have heard all the facts you list except for the 100 people who all mysteriously died. Can you elaborate on that.
 
damian said:
I have heard all the facts you list except for the 100 people who all mysteriously died. Can you elaborate on that.
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Damian, Sure would be glad to. Basically there were a lot of people that day in November who saw things or heard things. Others knew information prior to or shortly after the assasination.
You can find the listing of each person name by name, what they knew and how they died.

*** simply "google "JFK assasination mysterious deaths.***
 
PanzerAce1944 said:
The following questions still have not been answered on a one for one basis ***

1) Is this photo of the grassy knoll shooter an illusion ? How is this explained ?

Not to make light of this since it is fun to discuss, but it really is difficult to make anything out of that. I guess is you believe there is a shooter there then perhaps you can see it.

2) Why did dozens of people run up to the grassy knoll after Kennedy was shot ?
People generally run away and not toward the source of gun shots. Also the acoustics in an open place like Dealey Plaza make it difficult to distinguish shot locations from echos. People could mistakenly believe there was a shooter in that location. Also a lot of panic - people running every direction not all of them chasing an assassin. However, there were several people who saw a shooter in the 6th floor window. As you noted a police officer entered the building and met Oswald within minutes after the shooting. The officer indicated he saw pigeons flying off the building as the shots were fired and identified that as the location of the gun shots. Witnesses on the fifth floor heard the gunshots directly above them and even the case shells hitting the floor. Several witnesses directed police to the TSB within minutes and provided descriptions which matched Oswald - which is why Tibbets stopped him later at a different location.
3) How can up to 100 people who knew or saw something about the assasination
all mysteriously die ? What are the odds of that ?
This is one of the enduring myths. Studies have been done which confirm that no higher percentage of witnesses died than would be expected. You are talking about a large number of people and people die over time.
4) Explain the fatal head shot ? Shooting out the whole back right side of Kennedy's
head from the rear with a Mannlicher Carcano round doesn't work ? A frontal shot would !!
A lot of people accept this notion, but look at the film and his head moves slightly forward before reversing direction. It's been addressed at length in the Bugliosi book and many others. ABC/Peter Jenkins did a great show on the assassination a few years ago that debunked a lot of these notions.

Explain these few facts and I will be a believer that Oswald did it.

Other forum members out there please give your take on what you think really happened that day. No hard feelings gents. We are all expressing our own views and beliefs ! Back to Toy Soldiers ...Happy Collecting !
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A few responses above. This all good fun to discuss and hopefully no one takes offense at different views.
 
I am going to tune out and give others a chance to discuss the topic if they so wish.
No hard feelings toward you at all combat. This topic has a lot of mixed views about it. One thing that I would encourage people to do is use the web as it has a vast amount of information pertaining to the assasination ! Just go on google, type in the subject or statement pertaining to the assasination and have at it ! :rolleyes2:
 
PanzerAce1944 said:
Damian, Sure would be glad to. Basically there were a lot of people that day in November who saw things or heard things. Others knew information prior to or shortly after the assasination.
You can find the listing of each person name by name, what they knew and how they died.

*** simply "google "JFK assasination mysterious deaths.***
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Thanks will look that up.
I am aware of most of the other points
 
I have been fascinated by the shooting almost since it happened. Seen most of the TV docs, films, etc., and read a lot of books. I don't rightly know what to believe, to be honest. The one sticking point that I have not seen explained to my satisfaction is the shattered JFK skull. The Zapruder film shows the skull exploding forward, as if hit from the rear, but then the head snaps back, too. The autopsy sketches and photos show the skull shattered in the side/rear area, as if hit from the front. And then there is the fact that Jackie is seen crawling on the rear trunk of the car to recover what were described as skull pieces. A rear shot probably wouldn't throw pieces backwards. I find it hard to believe that JFK was not hit from two directions, but thats about as far as my belief in conspiracy currently goes. -- Al
 
I would recommend that anyone with a genuine interest read the Bugliosi book "Reclaiming History." It is a massive tome as would be expected in setting out the case against Oswald and debunking each of the conspiracy theories. Badge man (a coke bottle in a blurry photo), mysterious deaths (not only did the majority on these lists die completely natural deaths, but if theorists believe conspirators murdered these people to silence them, why would they wait so long to do it? In some cases over 20 years), LBJ, Cubans etc are knocked down one by one in excruciating detail.

"...the principal frailities in the thinking processes of the theorists is that they rarely ever carry their suspicions, which are based on some discrepancy, anomaly, or contradiction they find, to their logical conclusion. If they did, they'd see the reductio ad adsurdum of their position. But for them, if something looks suspicious, that's enough. Instead of asking, "Where does this go?" - that is, where does the discrepancy, contradiction, or whatever, lead them? - they immediately give their minds a breather and conclude that what they find is itself proof of a conspiracy (or proof Oswald is innocent). The disprepancy or contradiction is the entire story. Nothing else has to be shown or even argued."
 
Combat said:
I would recommend that anyone with a genuine interest read the Bugliosi book "Reclaiming History." It is a massive tome as would be expected in setting out the case against Oswald and debunking each of the conspiracy theories. Badge man (a coke bottle in a blurry photo), mysterious deaths (not only did the majority on these lists die completely natural deaths, but if theorists believe conspirators murdered these people to silence them, why would they wait so long to do it? In some cases over 20 years), LBJ, Cubans etc are knocked down one by one in excruciating detail.

"...the principal frailities in the thinking processes of the theorists is that they rarely ever carry their suspicions, which are based on some discrepancy, anomaly, or contradiction they find, to their logical conclusion. If they did, they'd see the reductio ad adsurdum of their position. But for them, if something looks suspicious, that's enough. Instead of asking, "Where does this go?" - that is, where does the discrepancy, contradiction, or whatever, lead them? - they immediately give their minds a breather and conclude that what they find is itself proof of a conspiracy (or proof Oswald is innocent). The disprepancy or contradiction is the entire story. Nothing else has to be shown or even argued."
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JUst to throw some fuel on this fire.

1. Buglosi (while I admire him for a lot of his work, especially Manson) walked off the set during an interview with Jesse Ventura. The questions were completely serious and not that hard. That lost some credibility in my eyes.

2. As much as I admire George H. Bush (Dad), why will he never answer where he was that day???? THe man is absolutely brilliant, yet under oath, he can't remember as a CIA man on the ground.

Look, in my opionion, there is too much smoke surrounding this with no fire. Too many mobsters involved, too much Cuba, and on top of that, you have LBJ, who always was surrounded by some sort of issue. I don't know what happened and most who do are dead, but something happened and it is not what the infamous rubber stamp Warren commission said. And again, as much as I respect Vincent, he IMO took an opportune stance that is counter to the conspiracists and sold a ton of books!

TD
 
Louis Badolato said:
No, it was all a dream . . . or was that Bobby Ewing?^&grin
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From my generation...

Q:"Where were you the day Kennedy was shot?"

A:"The Grassy Knoll."

"Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor)[1] often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae, translating to law of parsimony, law of economy or law of succinctness, is a principle that generally recommends selecting the competing hypothesis that makes the fewest new assumptions, when the hypotheses are equal in other respects.[2] For instance, they must both sufficiently explain available data in the first place."
 
Well...from the country that gave us A A Milne, J R R Tolkien, J. M. Barrie, C. S. Lewis, et al. I'd EXPECT a British conspiracy to be adorable!
 
I'm really on the fence with this one, I will watch a documentary or read something that makes me completely believe it was Oswald acting alone and then I'll see another programme or read something else that gets me thinking again.

One point I would like clarification on having read through the earlier posts is that what was Oswalds motivation for doing this, if he wasn't owning up or admitting to it, surely he would want the fame and everyone to know it was him? :confused:
 
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