Why are we so German Crazy (1 Viewer)

[bradleyl30]

Well said, though I do not entirely agree with your assumptions. At the beginning of 10 pages of posts we have heard many interesting perspectives and discussed pretty women in Jeeps,
but have we really explained the fascination with German figures and vehicles besides 1.they are pretty 2. they are colorful 3, they look better than the dull green of most allied vehicles and they sell well?
"the answer lies within" is still the question. The study of the human mind is of course complex, I have done so for the past 50+ years or so
It is perfectly OK to disagree on the origins of men's thinking in war, but in this case history speaks against many of the answers posted
I will say no more
h.hammer

While I agree with your list of obvious reasons, I think your observation is very critical. For me, the deeper answer is both a desire to understand why something like the human catastrophe of the Third Reich could happen, could happen in such a highly educated and sophisticated place and whether it could happen again. For me, the "if it could happen again"could it happen in one of the countries that now leads the world. Of course, my biggest concern is whether it could happen here in the US. The only way to prevent that is to truly understand National Socialism and see it not just from hindsight, but to see it and what led to it and its resulting holocaust from the beginning.

So, many Americans (and I assume people who were born after it in other parts of the country) only see the hindsight. They confuse the holocaust with National Socialism (NS=Anit-semitism) and forget it is more complex than that. There is an attitude of "we don't hate Jews so we can't do the same thing" rather than understanding that irrational fear led a highly educated country to turn over all of their rights, all of the decision making and all of the country's power to a small group of ignorant, outspoken thugs. The intelligentsia had failed so they threw them out and replaced them with the "common" man.

For me, it is important to see the shades of grey (no pun intended.) As I read more and more about the common soldier, it is clear that neither the idea that they were all evil Nazis, nor the other extreme of most were just doing what any other soldier would do accurate. Something more happened in Nazi Germany, something different and more salient for most of us in the West than happened in Stalinist Russia. Stalinist Russia is so different than our world in the West, but Germany hits close to home. They were like us and so it is really critical that we see it truly for what it is. It can happen again and it can happen again in the UK, in the USA, in the EU, in Canada and, dear God, even down under!

So for me, there is an intense fascination that started to grow after 9/11 and has continued to grow since then. The Band of Brothers German General's speech was a huge part of this, and pointed me to start seeing things from the other side (or more importantly, from the inside.) I grapple with both the appeal of the pomp, ceremony and pleasing aesthetic, as well as the revulsion of what lay behind it.

Lastly, as a kid I read "Blood and Honor" about a young man who grew up in the Hitler Youth. I remember at about 15 being struck by the very uncomfortable notion that if I had been in his place I would have fully embraced National Socialism and all the martial propaganda. That was a very important insight for me as to how susceptible and gullible I can be, so I had to be eternally vigilant if I wanted to be truly physically and mentally free.

 

[Firebat]

To think I started this thread requesting some American soft skin vehicles.{sm2}{sm4}

 

[Rob]

Not quite true. The Russians had been doing this stuff since 1917 on an enormous scale. This is why many saw the Germans as liberators, and historically, before, during and after it is the Russians who have first place in mass attrocities both in numbers and brutality. I would challenge anyone to refer to historical fact that proves otherwise.

And as regards to topic, this historical and psychological analysis is very much on topic as it is an integral element to the hobby. These can not be separated, otherwise the figures and machines are reduced to sterile representations of art. I do not believe anyone collects them purely on this basis.

Emotions running high? Let them run. My family was split on both sides. Yes, there were two sides.

Nope do not agree. More brutal than the organized , deliberate, industrial process of obliterating a race of people from the earth???? Doubtful.

But out of respect to Dave's post and having no wish to continue the swerving of the thread I shall cease forthwith.What a good boy aren't I Dave?!!^&grin:salute:::wink2:


Neil, would love this too, 'Centaur' (think that's right??)

 

[uksubs]

Nope do not agree. More brutal than the organized , deliberate, industrial process of obliterating a race of people from the earth???? Doubtful.
R
But out of respect to Dave's post and having no wish to continue the swerving of the thread I shall cease forthwith.What a good boy aren't I Dave?!!^&grin:salute:::wink2:


Neil, would love this too, 'Centaur' (think that's right??)

I have the same photo in my collection Rob as it outside the cafe at Pegasus bridge and was shocked how small it is after seeing German armour , think it would work well with Kc Commandos who used the tank

 

[ccdc11]

I usually will not join these post , but will sit and chuckle at some of the answers .
However I have a few points on this one that may ring true to some.

Being born in the late sixties in the us, I grew up with Marx battleground sets and the propaganda war world 2 movies that were shown on winter days when you couldn't play outside. They always had the allies fighting in a underdog postion against the Germans or the Japanese . You saw tigers , panthers ,king togers and distinctly German support vehicles.
On the allied side you saw Sherman's , Sherman's and more Sherman's
Sometimes a half track or SP on a Sherman base.

I always had the feeling that the German amour was engineered to a higher standard and was superior on the battlefield and the allies were more affraid of them than the Germans were of the us and uk amour. Again propaganda movies from the forties .
Or as oddball said even in the 70s "those are tigers baby"

Next, would be,that I think we all,as toy soldier collectors like militaristic societies,
And the second war world brought that to us in spades and primary on the axis side.
I love Sparta , Rome and the like but the Germans in WW2 revised that .
That being said I would not collect lah but do find it great looking.

While I do not collect armour by itself , it it used as support for the soldiers and dioramas I do love the look of the tiger and panther as apossed to any allied tanks.
However I am not a ww2 collector as I only have about 300 pieces of which four are amour so my big battles are mostly horse, and soldiers so my option is based on that as well

 

[Rob]

I have the same photo in my collection Rob as it outside the cafe at Pegasus bridge and was shocked how small it is after seeing German armour , think it would well with Kc Commandos who used the tank

That's right mate, man I loved that trip to Normandy (going back this summer! :salute: . Commando riders on a Centaur, how cool Neil!^&cool^&cool^&cool

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

As Zulu Collector said and as Andy would say, "they sell." End of story.

Why they sell? Different question.

After having digested the last few pages, like Harvey said, I don't think the second question has been answered. Motives are complex and why people collect are varied and different. As Dave has asked for a note of caution, I will leave it at that.

One poster noted that what happened in Germany hits closer to home than what happened in Russia. I'm not sure I understand that line of thinking. Russia is part of Europe, albeit Eastern Europe, and the men who brought forth Bolshevik Europe were European men. Many Americans are descended from what used to be called the Pale of Settlement and east of that. As was said in Pogo (the famous comic strip by Walt Kelly), "we have met the enemy and he is us."

Brad

 

[PanzerAce1944]

To think I started this thread requesting some American soft skin vehicles.{sm2}{sm4}

Soon you will have Apples falling into your yard from the Pine Trees !

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Must have made for some interesting discussions (assuming they survived the War).

Brad

I was first told of the story about the Battle on the farm when I was a 10 Y/O kid and never forgot one word of it ! Made me think drnking coffee was a wild adventure !!! {sm3}

 

[jazzeum]

To think I started this thread requesting some American soft skin vehicles.{sm2}{sm4}

As Robert Burns said

"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft a-gley
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain."

 

[jrsteel]

If you lived through WW2 . . . even in a war-free zone . . . then you cannot separate the history and emotions of the period from toy soldiers. Family and friends were all affected . . . my father was gone for nearly six years, but returned. However, he was never the warm person he was before the war. My father-in-law . . . a respected attorney who was overage and not required to go . . . did not. We lived in daily fear of events . . . you couldn't escape it. Fortunately, there was relatively little media coverage and what there was, was heavily censored. Thus, to those of us who participated, even if only in the war effort or as an onlooker, one cannot forget the brutal events. To glorify certain units or nationalities because of fancy uniforms or superior technology is unacceptable to many of us. Anyone who did not live through the period may have difficulty with this concept, but it is what it is. To say otherwise is fooling oneself. To this day I keep away from WWII or figures in combat. No one will ever convince me that all those little Nazi figures are a thing of beauty no matter how pretty the they are.

Bosun Al

Great post! As someone who's father fought in WW2 against the Nazis, the fascination with the German Army is just disappointing. For me the most iconic uniform of WW2 is a regular old American GI. I like to collect British and Australian troops also but it seems like K&C only release American GIs like twice a year now.

 

[bradleyl30]

After having digested the last few pages, like Harvey said, I don't think the second question has been answered. Motives are complex and why people collect are varied and different. As Dave has asked for a note of caution, I will leave it at that.

One poster noted that what happened in Germany hits closer to home than what happened in Russia. I'm not sure I understand that line of thinking. Russia is part of Europe, albeit Eastern Europe, and the men who brought forth Bolshevik Europe were European men. Many Americans are descended from what used to be called the Pale of Settlement and east of that. As was said in Pogo (the famous comic strip by Walt Kelly), "we have met the enemy and he is us."

Brad

Brad,
What I meant is that structurally speaking Germany seems closer to us. Russia was much closer to its feudal roots and had far lower levels of education than Germany did at the beginning of the war. Germany had also flirted with democracy during the Weimar Republic and a market economy. Lastly, since that time they are more familiar since a large portion of it was never behind the iron curtain. So, German society seems to be more relatable and seem less foreign than the more exotic and mysterious Russian society and culture.

 

[Firebat]

As Robert Burns said

"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft a-gley
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain."

Well said....Well said ^&grin

 

[4th Hussar]

No one will ever convince me that all those little Nazi figures are a thing of beauty no matter how pretty the they are.

Bosun Al[/QUOTE]

And none are included in my collection, my toy army excludes Germans after WW1.

 

[Poppo]

Nope do not agree. More brutal than the organized , deliberate, industrial process of obliterating a race of people from the earth???? Doubtful.


You are wrong.Not a race(even if Stalin also pursued the jews just after ww2), but entire regions,ethnic groups, social classes, human attitudes...And yes, also deliberately, and in industrial way. Read about the goulag system...All Soviet Union has been a big concentration camp from 1920 till 1953 where million of people died, not in gas chambers, but by hard work, starvation, lack of medical assistance, executions( ex. just the organized starvation to the peasants unwilling the communist system in Ukraine, 1937, made 6 million deads)....

 

[Firebat]

No one will ever convince me that all those little Nazi figures are a thing of beauty no matter how pretty the they are.

Bosun Al

And none are included in my collection, my toy army excludes Germans after WW1.[/QUOTE]


I do it a different way. Through my dioramas I always try to show the Allies in a better light...That is why I need those vehicles I mentioned :wink2:

That is why I love the story telling aspect of our hobby, you have control over history.

Quick Story...

I met a WWII vet at the supermarket yesterday, who said his proudest moment in WWII was when Operation Cobra was about to kick off and he saw miles and miles of Allied might ready to uncoil on the enemy. He said the sight was mind boggling.

The Germans did it their way and we did it ours, which was equally awesome.

( I NEED US SUPPORT VEHICLES BAD TO DEPICT THIS AWESOME SIGHT IN A SCENE )

 

[Rob]

I hear you Alex, lets hear it for the War winning allies....including those bad boy Russians^&grin

QUOTE=Firebat;620870]And none are included in my collection, my toy army excludes Germans after WW1.[/QUOTE]


I do it a different way. Through my dioramas I always try to show the Allies in a better light...That is why I need those vehicles I mentioned :wink2:

That is why I love the story telling aspect of our hobby, you have control over history.

Quick Story...

I met a WWII vet at the supermarket yesterday, who said his proudest moment in WWII was when Operation Cobra was about to kick off and he saw miles and miles of Allied might ready to uncoil on the enemy. He said the sight was mind boggling.

The Germans did it their way and we did it ours, which was equally awesome.

( I NEED US SUPPORT VEHICLES BAD TO DEPICT THIS AWESOME SIGHT IN A SCENE )[/QUOTE]

 

[ivanmoe]

( I NEED US SUPPORT VEHICLES BAD TO DEPICT THIS AWESOME SIGHT IN A SCENE )

I agree with Alex; support the USAAF!{sm0}

 

[zblang]

As a Jew, the only Nazi in my collection in the set with the assassination of Heydrich. the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi!

 

[Rob]

As a Jew, the only Nazi in my collection in the set with the assassination of Heydrich. the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi!

Perfection in a sentence!:smile2:

I once got talking to a very pleasant German chap in the famous guards museum Toy Shop just up from Buck House in London. We were talking about collecting and he told me he was really into Toy Army Workshop's WW1 range, which I was too in a big way at that time. He went on to say that although he loves collecting WW1 he could never collect WW2 because the memories are too raw for him and his family and friends. He then said the strangest and saddest thing. He said ' I'm sorry you guys in Britain all hate us' . When asked why he thought that he told me that the British papers gave him that impression. I reassured him that not only do the British papers not represent everyone's opinion and most certainly not mine, but many Brits dislike the press a great deal. (I'm putting it mildy here). The thing is it would be absurd to 'hate ' German or Japanese of today, how can you hold today's generation accountable for something that happened decades and decades ago. It would be akin to blaming me for Britain's involvement in the slave trade or for atrocities carried out against people of the British Empire hundreds of years back. But I think in my opinion it is perfectly acceptable to loathe the Nazi's and all they stood for. We are not talking the average Jerry fighting for his country here, we are talking about people responsible for mass murders , invasion of other countries and the attempt to kill all Jewish people. Well that's my opinion anyway, I was brought up to abhor all they stood for and for racism generally . I do I admit sometimes get a bit evangelical about it for which I apologize, but my family suffered during the Blitz and you know what its like to see your mum and gran's eyes fill up when they remembered.

Anyway in the end we won they lost so stuff them and god bless Britain the US and all the allies! ^&grin:salute::

Rob