WW2 Revisionist History (3 Viewers)

bromhead said:
Interesting that the General doesnt seem to be wearing pilots wings,a talking general rather then an aviator or historian. The problem with revisionism to wars is the veterans who survived become upset at versions of what they lived thru in book or film.
Click to expand...
His wings show up better in some other photos. If they are like ours, they indicate a command pilot, the highest level you get.
 
I don't know how I feel about this. I really don't.

But I am certain of a few things:

1. The Germans invaded countries outside of their influence. Even understanding the horrible terms they agreed to at the end of WWI, there's no excuse for it
2. The Germans enslaved and murdered millions of inocent Jews, metally handicapped, gypsies - anybody who didn't fit their "ideal" and who could be used as slave labor
3. The Japanese bombed us
4. The Japanese were not going to surrender and were arming and training all citizens including children
5. The Japanese treatment of the Chinese and numerous other attrocities they committed during the war

These things are things I know.

The US did it's typical thing of using black soldiers and returning them to the same crap these men were trying to overcome - just like WWI, the Civil War, etc.

The US interred Japanese in camps but we did not kill them nor mis-treat them any further - though I do not agree with that act. I find it nauseating actually but it was a different time and the circumstances were extreme. At least we haven't gone that far in our current situation(s).

The US helped rebuild the economies and institutions of the nations we stopped from trying to pillage the above. And, the US created great trading and strategic partnerships in the process.

There are things our nation did and continues to do that I do not support but, in the end, what sets us apart are some of our core ideals and values that helped us win WWII and elect an African American president (no matter how you feel about this). It shows that we continue to be an adaptable and changing nation of people who can move forward and put horrible things behind us for the greater good of America.

A revisionist is trying to draw another conclusion.

Sorry, didn't mean to get preachy.
 
Talking about revisionism i admire the american people and how they put after their backs the great divisions created by the civil war..now you can honour the blues and the greys in the same manner .Here in Italy one part of people merely for political reasons negate the truth of the nearly 25000 people killed without due process by the "reds" after the 25 april 1945 for bein' fascists, sympathizers of the fascists or simply being enemies of the political agenda of the followers of Moscow..one left wing journalist Giampaolo Pansa simply investigating in the archives brought to light this story and was accused of being a fascist , believe me reading his books brought me to tears for the horrors described and so for the Foibe: natural holes where thousands of italians in Istria (a region near Trieste on the adriatic coast) where throwed..the "partisans" of Tito tied 2 people then shooted at one of them and the weight of the dead person con****ed the other to an atrocious fall of hundreds of metres..many "fascist" italians , but not only ..even "white" partisans , priests and even some straggling british soldier where put to death in this manner ..ethnic cleansing they called after some time ..we experienced 50 years before..and the the "funny" thing it's that the italian state gives a pension to some of the monsters who perpetrated this...so what can i say more?There's revisionism and revisionism...
 
At times some are called facists,nazis and communists at the same time ,usually involving politics. An unfortunate time in your countrys history. Disabled B17s from my fathers group flying from the Foggia Amendola complex were "guided" by Swiss Me109s to internment along with equivilent luftwaffe crews.
 
I say ..those ideologies are now con****ed by history..there's no discussion about that..strumentalizing the history is too a crime..regarding the goods and the bads..there are many instances in war , my father was in the Cassino area in 1944 , he lived in a cave because his house was bombed, some german entered the cave and the people in there (with my father and his family) feared for their life..they only were mere infantry and said "we are good but beware the chaindogs"..so was called the Feldgendarmerie ..when the allies arrived it was a feast for many , my father exchanged his "Signal" collection with a british tankman for a few tins of meat..and the american were great too..i can't forget the story of the first platoon my father encountered with a "paisa'" , an italo-american at his head ..by the way when the allies crashed the german front in the cassino area (gustav line) many women were raped by the "goumiers " the algerian troops in french service , between them 2 of my father's cousins ..when the brothers of these 2 cousins remonstrated with the french officer this said : "I give you permission to shoot dead the culprits" and so they did..so the war is only a big set of greys..there's no white or black for the poor people..
 
Eh eh it's great to think today that my father maybe sighted the B17 of your fathers..i recall that he always told me about "When the P38 destroyed the Garigliano river bridge" ..maybe they came from the same airport of your fathers group..
 
Possibly so,,I believe the Foggia complex contained many airfields w the B17,b24 groups,the 15th air force also had about 14 fighter groups w P38s and Mustangs at the time,,Aug-Dec 1044. The 2nd Bomb group B17s had Black or dark blue tail and wing control surfaces w a stripe across the upper wing. At about age ten my father and I went into a camera shop in Chicago run by a German guy,,he noticed a 15af insignia on a baseball hat my father wore,,adding "He was a fighter pilot,FW190s with the luftwaffe' Flew in Austria where my father always said Vienna had the heaviest flak and fighters of anywhere. The conversation was priceless as the guy said "the black tails?"at the mention of the 2nd group. Definatly should have been recorded.
 
Great story..i'm really sorry that we are losing this generation , the generation who paid the extreme price..but fortunately with our passion for history we can honour them forever..it's the way i look at history , military history in particular..yes "Historia Magistra Vitae" but even a way to honour the fallen regardless of their flags..
 
I think every age has his sensibility..maybe even Napoleon today (i admire many of his military ad administrative feats :above all the promulgation of the Code Civil) could find his place in the Aja Court...the gladiators in the ancient Rome , the inquisition, the slavery and many other instances..are for us a cruel nearly unbelievable practice..seen with the eyes of their contemporaries (there are notable exceptions obviously) they appear normal..in an era and in latitudes where human life was never much regarded even Timur Lenk is an hero..
 
One of my ancestors for example was General Avitabile , he was a general in Sikh service and artilleryman , then was made governor of Peshawar.There are many stories about him..one of the "funniest" is this :the Sikh King consigned him a certain number of prisoners to guard and intimated not to let them escape, the governor Avitabile readily ordered them to be hanged..when the king returned and knew of the governor's decision he was really angry..Avitabile, a man full of particular humour said to the king "from where they are now, it's pretty sure they can't escape!" ..the king laughed at this answer and everything was ok..Avitabile was one of the few europeans to put order in that unfortunate land..maybe he comprised that there you can earn respect only with the violence..and so he did..even today the mothers of the little afghans and pathans to keep quiet their babies say "..or i'll call Abu Tabela (the name Avitabile)..his feats earned the right to a legion d'honour and a meeting with Wellington in London (he helped the British in the afghan expedition and the famous retreat from Kabul 1842)..so for the standards of today he is really a butcher , but at his times the iron fist with which governed his province earned many honours , the honours one man today could receive for , let's say a Nobel...times change...
 
cantinetozzo said:
One of my ancestors for example was General Avitabile , he was a general in Sikh service and artilleryman , then was made governor of Peshawar.There are many stories about him..one of the "funniest" is this :the Sikh King consigned him a certain number of prisoners to guard and intimated not to let them escape, the governor Avitabile readily ordered them to be hanged..when the king returned and knew of the governor's decision he was really angry..Avitabile, a man full of particular humour said to the king "from where they are now, it's pretty sure they can't escape!" ..the king laughed at this answer and everything was ok..Avitabile was one of the few europeans to put order in that unfortunate land..maybe he comprised that there you can earn respect only with the violence..and so he did..even today the mothers of the little afghans and pathans to keep quiet their babies say "..or i'll call Abu Tabela (the name Avitabile)..his feats earned the right to a legion d'honour and a meeting with Wellington in London (he helped the British in the afghan expedition and the famous retreat from Kabul 1842)..so for the standards of today he is really a butcher , but at his times the iron fist with which governed his province earned many honours , the honours one man today could receive for , let's say a Nobel...times change...
Click to expand...

General Avitabile is immortalized in George MacDonald Fraser's wonderful book, "Flashman" . . . as is his sense of humor:cool::cool:
 
Yes..i read it!I love Flashman..one of my favourite figures is Flashman , the Club Figure..i hope to read other books, fiction but with great historical knowledge by MacDonald Fraser, i loved too his other work of art "The Steel Bonnets"!...
 
GMF is, along with Rudyard Kipling, my favorite author. Andy Neilson of K&C gve me an autographed copy of his last book only days before he passed away.
 
You're really fortunate..a great storyteller he was!!!I really enjoyed his first instalment of the Flashman saga ,and plan to buy all his other books, the fictional discovering of the Flashman papers is truly a stroke of genius..i'm not the fiction type but an historical base add flavour to all his books , he was nonetheless a great historian , the "Steel Bonnets " confirms this..and just to return to our hobby , the Border Reivers could be a great range...
 
Have you read the Dand McNeil/MacAuslan series? The three books are "The General Danced at Dawn", "MacAuslan in the Rough" and "The Shiekh and the Dustbin". They are somewhat autobiographical, and tell of his experiences as a young subalturn in the Gordon Highlanders just after WWII ended. They are also hysterically funny, a really great read!!:cool::cool:
 
No, i haven't read them..but as i've said i really like his style..so in the next few months i'll take a break from historical books..and i think i will do a full immersion in GMF novels!!!Thanks for the suggestion i'm already on my book shop site..:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 4 (members: 0, guests: 4)
Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2024 XenForo Ltd.
Back
Top