K&C scale (2 Viewers)

[amhuff1]

This has probably been addressed before but I haven't seen the answer so....
K&C are 1/30 all ranges?
K&C make or made Del Prado & Hachette so are they 1/30 as well?
Thanks
Andy

 

[JPB]

K&C are all 1/30 except the warbirds

JPB

 

[The Templar]

K&C are all 1/30 except the warbirds JPB

No - they´re not! The Crusader Series are 1/32 - only the crossbow guy from Collectors Club are 1/30!

 

[redhugh]

No - they´re not! The Crusader Series are 1/32 - only the crossbow guy from Collectors Club are 1/30!

also the del prado crusader figures are 1/30 by my estimation

There are a few other K&C ranges that are also 1/32 I think...the ACW figures? , the war in iraq/afghanistan ..there may be other ranges as well....

WWII is 1/30

I think most of the Del Prado /Hachette stuff is 1/30 although I did end up by mistake with what looked like 1/60 nap cavalry figures Knew I had got them way too cheap

 

[cantinetozzo]

No , the last batch of ACW figures are 1/30 (comparison with WBritain 1/32 figures), the Crusaders are really 1/32 , the first time i've seen them i belieed they were not K&C..

 

[debrito]

No - they´re not! The Crusader Series are 1/32 - only the crossbow guy from Collectors Club are 1/30!

I think the new Crusaders are 1/30, not sure...

 

[mestell]

No - they´re not! The Crusader Series are 1/32 - only the crossbow guy from Collectors Club are 1/30!

I totally agree. The crusader series is 1/32. Their design (ie the scaling ladders and the seige tower) fits perfectly with JG Miniatures structures which are also 1/32 scale. They also compare favorably in scale with St. Petersburg Collection Crusaders which are also 1/32.

Mike

 

[Spitfrnd]

I totally agree. The crusader series is 1/32. Their design (ie the scaling ladders and the seige tower) fits perfectly with JG Miniatures structures which are also 1/32 scale. They also compare favorably in scale with St. Petersburg Collection Crusaders which are also 1/32.

Mike

To me it is confusing to use the ratio reference (1/32, 1/30 etc) for figure scales. As we have discussed before here, that only works well when you have a definitive full sized example, as in vehicles and aircraft. Figures represent people and their sizes can vary easily by more than 20 percent; much more than the difference between 1/30 and 1/32. For figures it is much more helpful to use the actual figure height from sole to eyes or sole to tip of head values, usually expressed in mm. I favor sole to top of head (disregarding headgear) which for the K&C Naps I have is from 58-60mm. I have no Crusaders or Saracens but looking at the TreeFrog size photo for one Saracen I see about 63mm from bottom of base to tip of where the head would be without the covering; subtracting what seems to be 3mm for the base this would indicate a 60mm figure. http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/detail.aspx?ID=1934
What do you all get for the Crusaders when measured in that way? Even better, can someone post a photo of a standing Nap and Crusader for comparison? I know Ron has both.

Of course what I would really like is a photo with a standing figure for each manufacturer for each period, eg. K&C, WB, First Legion, etc Naps; EoI, K&C, Conte etc Romans and so forth, like this one from the ToySoldier Club for WWII.

1. Oryon Collection
2. Frontline Figures
3. Conté Collectibles
4. W. Britains
5. ONTC
6. King & Country
7. Elastolin
I don't have any WWII but again using a TreeFrog scale photo it would seem that the DDay line has figures around 63mm with base or 60mm from sole to tip of head.
http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/detail.aspx?ID=2539

 

[steelisreal]

Thank you for all this information. As a new collector, this is answering many questions, and will help me in buying from outside K&C lines.

Will keep a close watch on this thread.

 

[Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio]

Hello All!
This seems to be a confusing subject for all of us but I really need to revisit something I have stated before...
You are all correct that people come in different sizes and that is not the question or concern. As a designer, sculptor and modelmaker the most important thing to consider when making a scale reduction of people, environments and the material culture of any period, it is the scale of man made items that remain constant.
When you look at a miniature take some item like a weapon that was only made in one size. If you have any interest at all most of this information is now on the web somewhere.
An example would be a Brown Bess. The one here by my bench is a New Land (2nd Model) and it measures 58 1/4" from muzzle to butt plate. If I model a man at 5 " 9" or 6' 3"... the Musket will still be 58 1/4" long.
In 1/32 scale this would be 1.82" long or in 1/30 scale 1.94" long.
Remember this:
In 1/32 scale a foot is 3/8 of an inch in length
In 1/30 scale a foot is 13/32 of an inch in length
...or a foot in 1/30 scale is 1/32 of an inch longer than a foot in 1/32 scale.

As an item gets larger then the differences become greater.

Another example might be the width of a WWII German Panther tank (Panzerkamfwagen V Ausf.A SdKfz 17).
In full size it measured 3.42 meters wide
In English measurement this is 11' 2 5/8" wide
In 1/32 scale this is 4 3/16"
In 1/30 scale this is 4 1/2"
This would be a 5/16" difference in width.

In the end if you wonder about the scale of your collectible, find something that is a fixed size in real life and convert it to the scale you think it should be.
Good luck and have fun!
Ken

 

[Spitfrnd]

Hello All!
This seems to be a confusing subject for all of us but I really need to revisit something I have stated before...
You are all correct that people come in different sizes and that is not the question or concern. As a designer, sculptor and modelmaker the most important thing to consider when making a scale reduction of people, environments and the material culture of any period, it is the scale of man made items that remain constant.
When you look at a miniature take some item like a weapon that was only made in one size. If you have any interest at all most of this information is now on the web somewhere.
An example would be a Brown Bess. The one here by my bench is a New Land (2nd Model) and it measures 58 1/4" from muzzle to butt plate. If I model a man at 5 " 9" or 6' 3"... the Musket will still be 58 1/4" long.
In 1/32 scale this would be 1.82" long or in 1/30 scale 1.94" long.
Remember this:
In 1/32 scale a foot is 3/8 of an inch in length
In 1/30 scale a foot is 13/32 of an inch in length
...or a foot in 1/30 scale is 1/32 of an inch longer than a foot in 1/32 scale.

As an item gets larger then the differences become greater.

Another example might be the width of a WWII German Panther tank (Panzerkamfwagen V Ausf.A SdKfz 17).
In full size it measured 3.42 meters wide
In English measurement this is 11' 2 5/8" wide
In 1/32 scale this is 4 3/16"
In 1/30 scale this is 4 1/2"
This would be a 5/16" difference in width.

In the end if you wonder about the scale of your collectible, find something that is a fixed size in real life and convert it to the scale you think it should be.
Good luck and have fun!
Ken

Good information Ken but for figures especially I think the concern is more how they fit together than what ratio to full size they represent. I would also offer that my limited experience suggests that few manufacturers are consistent with their use of scale and while one weapon might be 1/32, another might be 1/30 and the figure yet another scale, depending on what you chose for the size of the real person they represent. I think you can see definite examples of that in the comparative WWII photo I posted below. Consider for example the very large difference in weapon sizes between figures 5 and 6, yet 5 is said to be 1/32 and 6 is said to be 1/30.

For that reason, as well as the lack of a consistent standard on full scale person height, the use of a representative figure height in mm is the second best method for comparing "figure scales" between lines and manufacturers. Of course the best is a direct photo comparison as I noted below.

 

[Ken & Ericka Osen/H&A Studio]

From my position as a professional sculptor and modelmaker I think it is important to have a standard within a range. I think most of the manufacturers do that already and as a result it really isn't a problem for most folks if you stay with one manufacturers product.
The point I was making was for those interested in mixing different figures from various manufacturers.

The best starting place to make a decision if the other product will be compatible with your existing collection, will always be using some item that will have a fixed measurement in real world.

If a WWII German soldier should have a M31 Gas Mask canister, I cannot accept that it is two grossly different sizes within the same scale. I can accept that the figure is 1/16" taller or shorter within the same scale.

The answer is to actually see what you are looking at and then quantify it within a standard. If you do not do this and then move into vehicle and equipment additions to your collection then you may be disappointed at the end of the day if you are at all concerned about your miniatures accurately representing real world items.

I hope this helps, all the best!
Ken

 

[Spitfrnd]

From my position as a professional sculptor and modelmaker I think it is important to have a standard within a range. I think most of the manufacturers do that already and as a result it really isn't a problem for most folks if you stay with one manufacturers product.
The point I was making was for those interested in mixing different figures from various manufacturers.

The best starting place to make a decision if the other product will be compatible with your existing collection, will always be using some item that will have a fixed measurement in real world.

If a WWII German soldier should have a M31 Gas Mask canister, I cannot accept that it is two grossly different sizes within the same scale. I can accept that the figure is 1/16" taller or shorter within the same scale.

The answer is to actually see what you are looking at and then quantify it within a standard. If you do not do this and then move into vehicle and equipment additions to your collection then you may be disappointed at the end of the day if you are at all concerned about your miniatures accurately representing real world items.

I hope this helps, all the best!
Ken

I am not sure scale is perfectly consistent even within product lines and I am certain that it is not between various lines. I am most certain that the use of ratio scales is vastly inconsistent. Consider again numbers 5 and 6 from that photo I posted. Both soldiers seem to be using M1s, which should measure 43.6 inches at full scale or 1.4533 at 1/30 and 1.3625 at 1/32. The difference in the rifles for those two figures appears much more than .091 inches (2.3 mm) as suggested by the claimed scale for each. Since I don't have either, I can't say which ratio scale claim is more accurate.

I do agree that the difference in a figures height is not the only important variable but if you give that in mm, at least you are being consistent with your terms and citing something that can easily be visualized. While I appreciate that true weapon size is vastly easier to determine, I still suggest that simply noting that difference in scale will not tell you how well different products display together. The eye has a hard time appreciating a difference in 2mm in rifle length but certainly can see that quite well in height yet that alone doesn't say whether your figures will display well together. For example, beefy 60mm figures do not look so good with lean 58mm figures, even though the height difference is acceptable. At any rate, we seem to agree that the best way to judge this is to look at them together, which is why I said the photo comparison works the best for me. I truly wish some dealer (hint, hint) would do such a comparative set of photos for all the lines they carry for each period. It would be most helpful for those of us that do not have ready access to local dealers for a hands on comparison.

 

[mk26gmls]

There seems to be a scale difference in AWI as well. The latest Brits are much smaller/leaner than the older Americans and the Highlanders I have from that range. Anyone else see that difference that have these figures?

 

[OldDragon]

There seems to be a scale difference in AWI as well. The latest Brits are much smaller/leaner than the older Americans and the Highlanders I have from that range. Anyone else see that difference that have these figures?

I have the older Americans, as well as the Redcoats and I will agree with MK's observation. The visible difference (to the naked eye) is not so much the difference in the figure heights, but more in the build of the figures.

The older American Continentals are more bulkier build ... and I would attribute that more to a sculptor's style. From the web pictures of the upcoming Bluecoats .. they too appear more towards the "build" of the leaner Redcoats.

Notwithstanding the above, these AWI figures look compatible and will easily fit together in a diorama ... see Ron's beautiful diorama post in the latest Fusilier thread.

OD

 

[Spitfrnd]

Which ones are the older or newer ones?

 

[Capitolron]

OLD is AR 04 - it is about a 1/32 Figure

NEW is AR 38 - it is around 1/30 Figure

 

[Spitfrnd]

OLD is AR 04 - it is about a 1/32 Figure

NEW is AR 38 - it is around 1/30 Figure

There you go with that ratio again. 1/32 etc based on what measurement, the rifle?

 

[Capitolron]

OK - How about AR05 is smaller - more standard - than AR38 !

I never really liked the AR 30's - because they could only go with the old british highlanders which are the same size as them - not the new british line troops that K&C came out with a couple of years ago.

I look forward to more uniformity in troop size.

 

[Spitfrnd]

OK - How about AR05 is smaller - more standard - than AR38 !

I never really liked the AR 30's - because they could only go with the old british highlanders which are the same size as them - not the new british line troops that K&C came out with a couple of years ago.

I look forward to more uniformity in troop size.

Well so do I. What I was hoping you would do was post a comparative photo with them lined up next to each other, kinda consistent with my theme below. The more photo comparisons we have the better.