Civil War Battlefields (1 Viewer)

[Capitolron]

Ron,

In reality, several things could have changed the outcome of the 1864 election (i.e., the defeat of Sherman as he approached Atlanta, etc.). The fall of Vicksburg split the South, prevented critical supplies from reaching the East, and surrendered a major Confederate force. In my opinion, Gettysburg only bloodied the nose of the Army of Northern Virginia, which lived to fight another day. Would a Confederate victory at Gettysburg have ensured that Lincoln would have lost the election? No one knows. Would a peace agreement with a Democrat President/Congress have been accomplished? No one knows. Did the loss of Vicksburg split the South, deprive the South of critical supplies, surrender a major Confederte Army, and place the Mississippi River under the complete control of the Union? Yes.

Gettysburg was a horrible battle, there is no doubting that. But was it the more critical loss to the Confederacy? I doubt it. The debate is further complicated by the fact that Lee retreated from Gettysburg the same day that Pemberton surrendered Vicksburg. In short, it was a terrible day for the Confederacy.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

Pat

I believe we must agree to disagree.

Gettysburg did more to the CSA than bloody its nose - it was the last time the South ever invaded the North and the last true offensive battle for the South. Everything after Gettysburg was a defensive struggle with the North.

Even after Vicksburg fell - the South still had my home state of Florida and its ability to receive blockaide runners on her shores for needed supplies. Although it was like slowly turning down the water hose on needed supplies as the war dragged on.

It is true with the loss of Vicksburg - the North was able to move attention and Men and Grant to the Eastern Theater. This alone certainly shortened the War which could have drug on and on (like Iraq now) - so the loss of Vicksburg did provide that major event to the loss of the South. But, IMO - Gettyburg was the last chance for International Recoginition of the South and Winning a Major Battle on Northerner Soil. So my vote still goes to Gettysburg and the HIGH WATER MARK of the Confederacy as the end of the end of the CSA.

Best Regards, Ron - I really enjoyed the discussion.

 

[sceic2]

An additional factor to consider is not only the results of the loss of the Mississippi to the South (Vicksburg falling in the end), the inability to invade the North to obtain supplies (Gettysburg), disrupt war production and to lower the North’s moral was the hesitancy on the part of European nations (especially England with its investments in cotton product production) to recognize the South as a sovereign nation.

A series of events lead to the South’s inability to prevail. Not one factor was involved but it was a combination of them. Remember the North never really did invest its total GNP in total war production. There were still vast numbers of Northern men whom had not served. The North had vast untapped resources that the South could never have overcome without foreign intervention. The Northern-manufacturing base was never put on full war- time production. Lincoln knew this and used his ambassadors and tried to influence events to demonstrate to the foreign powers that the South will loose. War is not just battle it is also perception (i.e. Tet in Viet Nam and Walter Cronkite).

 

[Capitolron]

An additional factor to consider is not only the results of the loss of the Mississippi to the South (Vicksburg falling in the end), the inability to invade the North to obtain supplies (Gettysburg), disrupt war production and to lower the North’s moral was the hesitancy on the part of European nations (especially England with its investments in cotton product production) to recognize the South as a sovereign nation.

A series of events lead to the South’s inability to prevail. Not one factor was involved but it was a combination of them. Remember the North never really did invest its total GNP in total war production. There were still vast numbers of Northern men whom had not served. The North had vast untapped resources that the South could never have overcome without foreign intervention. The Northern-manufacturing base was never put on full war- time production. Lincoln knew this and used his ambassadors and tried to influence events to demonstrate to the foreign powers that the South will loose. War is not just battle it is also perception (i.e. Tet in Viet Nam and Walter Cronkite).

I would agree with those Statements as well.

 

[damian]

I think the burning if Atlanta and the scene of all the wounded waiting for evacuation is better than anything on Cold Mountain

 

[Capitolron]

I think the burning if Atlanta and the scene of all the wounded waiting for evacuation is better than anything on Cold Mountain

I agree with that statement too.

 

[sceic2]

Atlanta, the begining of total warfare in the modern age. The actual destruction did little to affect the physical outcome of the war. It did not reduce much of the South's meager war production capability nor its cotton crop. The real effect was the demonstration that Lincoln was willing to destroy the South to preserve the Union. Very strong message. I wonder if it could be tried as a war crime at the Hauge in today's political climate. Oh wait, I forgot, Iraq.

 

[jazzeum]

I don't think Bomber Harris was prosecuted so probably not.

 

[sceic2]

I don't think Bomber Harris was prosecuted so probably not.

And if the English were able to bomb a prison in Denmark (using mosquito bombers for a version of precision bombing) to free some 200 resistance members before they were executed by the Gestapo, why weren’t allied leaders prosecuted for not bombing the rail yards leading to the camps or the crematoria

I am not optimistic about the human race and its behavior towards one another. I should be happy tonight. They finally showed a battle on HBO’s Rome, but it was such a very pathetic attempt at portraying the battle of Philippi. And still no word on Deadwood for another season or atleast a movie to close out the story. I miss Al (Swearingen). I guess that’s why I am so pessamistic.

 

[Capitolron]

I am sure all of you know that the opening shots of the Civil War - before Fort Sumter - was in Pensacola, Florida right?

 

[OzDigger]

...And still no word on Deadwood for another season or at least a movie to close out the story. I miss Al (Swearingen).

But do you miss Calamity (Swearing)

My dear wife nearly had a canniption when she first heard Calamity utter one of her F & C phrases.

I said to her, there goes the nice American West neighbourhood dear