Our changing hobby-the decline of shows and possible alternatives (1 Viewer)

I guess my bigger concern is I've completely lost track of the original subject of this thread...……………...

{sm4}{sm4}{sm4}....To catch up the thread is....lack of adequate history classes to our kids and a bias teaching inefficiency on part of some ill prepared teachers, side track our sons from getting interested in History and as a direct consequence on TS collecting and this leads to a decline to hobby collecting and therefore new venues for fairs....Guess this sums it...
Cheers
Artillery_Crazy:salute:::salute:::salute::
 
I did not get interested in history via school, I got interested in it because of my Dad. When I was about 6 years old he would read a Bridge too Far as my bedtime reading. It started me on my path of learning about World War 2 and it led to my toy soldier collecting. The rest, as they say, is history.
 
I did not get interested in history via school, I got interested in it because of my Dad. When I was about 6 years old he would read a Bridge too Far as my bedtime reading. It started me on my path of learning about World War 2 and it led to my toy soldier collecting. The rest, as they say, is history.
Love it. My dad used to read to me and my brother when we were small children, only we didn't get history, we got such stories as Peter Cottontail and lots of Thornton Burgess animal stories, such as Longlegs the Heron, Jerry Muskrat, or Grandfather Frog. I liked the animals, but I wouldn't have minded a little WW1 air combat such as G-8 and his Battle Aces.:wink2: -- Al
 
Back to the original topic.

The hobby is changing, they always do, but I compare it to the Train Hobby:

A. Train Hobby still has 2 large shows - Greenberg and The Great Scale. In MD they operate each 2-3 times per year, well attended.

B. Smaller shows - Yes, train hobby does the same thing - swaps at VFWs, Fire Halls, etc. Also well attended.

Aging - well, that is tough to gauge, yes it definitely is, but I think of myself, I took a break from age 15-30 or thereabouts. Spent the major time and money in my 30s when I had established an income. Still spending more money................!

The Internet - nuff said, you can find literally anything on it. Online Auctions - you can virtually bid as if you were there, it is now so easy.

I still like shows as I have said, they are fun to me. Also, it is a place to find stuff at a good price. New items may not sell as well at shows as they once did b/c they are very readily available and people have gotten used to buying online. At shows, deals are made on both sides and that is a good thing IMO. I do understand how shows may not represent a large part of a dealers annual income (as they used to). Chicago seemingly still works and Hackensack last year was off the charts, so go figure?

As with anything, the end of the day, the hobby is what you wish to make of it. Britains and Mignot have been around for over a century, I am hopeful that trend continues.

TD
 
Back to the original topic.

The hobby is changing, they always do, but I compare it to the Train Hobby:

A. Train Hobby still has 2 large shows - Greenberg and The Great Scale. In MD they operate each 2-3 times per year, well attended.

B. Smaller shows - Yes, train hobby does the same thing - swaps at VFWs, Fire Halls, etc. Also well attended.

Aging - well, that is tough to gauge, yes it definitely is, but I think of myself, I took a break from age 15-30 or thereabouts. Spent the major time and money in my 30s when I had established an income. Still spending more money................!

The Internet - nuff said, you can find literally anything on it. Online Auctions - you can virtually bid as if you were there, it is now so easy.

I still like shows as I have said, they are fun to me. Also, it is a place to find stuff at a good price. New items may not sell as well at shows as they once did b/c they are very readily available and people have gotten used to buying online. At shows, deals are made on both sides and that is a good thing IMO. I do understand how shows may not represent a large part of a dealers annual income (as they used to). Chicago seemingly still works and Hackensack last year was off the charts, so go figure?

As with anything, the end of the day, the hobby is what you wish to make of it. Britains and Mignot have been around for over a century, I am hopeful that trend continues.

TD

I agree with Tom's comments. I say this having walked the floor with him at the Westcoaster on more than one occasion. The internet is great in its own way but I still feel that nothing beats a show or a shop.

The best analogy I can come up with is one that relates to sports. Watching it on TV has tons of advantages. But nothing beats being there in person. From the atmosphere to the experience itself, being there is what creates the memory and cultivates the ultimate interest.
 
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I did not get interested in history via school, I got interested in it because of my Dad. When I was about 6 years old he would read a Bridge too Far as my bedtime reading. It started me on my path of learning about World War 2 and it led to my toy soldier collecting. The rest, as they say, is history.

In my time,50s history usually meant what explorer found a mountain in peru,,,nothing or very little about The U S let alone europeon or much after 1800,,but then again the Chicago PS were usually full of childless old loons who lived alone in rooms down the street from the school,,certainly never should have been near kids,,let alone been a "teacher" and HATED MALES,,
 
So, the secret to keeping the hobby going may run through Sabaton. I have gotten my 5 yo and 7 yo daughters hooked on Sabaton's "The Last Stand," "The Winged Hussars," and the "The Red Baron." They ask, "Can we rock out, Daddy!?!?" If my wife isn't home, we do massive air guitar fests and then I show them the toy soldiers from the song. Now they think 'Daddy's Toys" are the coolest. Plus, I got them some of the JJD Amazons and my wife Lagertha. So, creating the next generation!

Other good options are "Valhalla Calling," "My Mother Told Me/Song of the Vikings," and Sea Shanty medleys have all piqued their interest in history.
 
To Members of the Forum,
Given the realization of repeating myself, I would, none the less like to reiterate my personal assessment of the state of our hobby:

Update on the State of Toy Soldier Collecting

This author personally believes that a significant evolution has occurred in the collecting of toy soldiers. As has been previously and frequently stated in this blog at least two major factors have been driving the collection of toy soldiers/military miniatures for at least several decades. I personally feel that for the serious collector, regardless of their resources or perspective of interest, there has been an evolution from the classic toy soldier to the military miniature, i.e. from vintage Minot and W. Britains Ltd to King & Country, Tommy Gunn and John Jenkins, just as examples. Strongly illustrative of this trend is the decrease of auctions of vintage toy soldiers (W. Britains) in both the United States and Great Britain, and the overall diminished presence and quality of the sets being offered on e-Bay and at auction. Further corroborating this fact is the significant overall decrease of prices realized at auction in recent years, again with exceptions. If one views recent photographs at the decreasing number of remaining toy soldier shows (West Coaster (on again/off again) and Texas are tenuous and significantly diminished, and in the U.K. the shows also much smaller) the discernible absence of the classic red W. Britains boxes is consistent. The notable exceptions (there are always exceptions) being William Hocker and Imperial (New Zealand). Hocker more so than Imperial, providing a nostalgic bridge to the past. In addition the remaining actual brick and mortar actual toy soldier shops have continued to decrease

My personal opinion is that the increase in scale, 1:32 (54mm) to 1:30 (60mm), and the resultant significant increase in detail, quality of figure sculpture and painting (and in most cases historical accuracy), and the predomination of matte over gloss finish, have been the principal results. Obviously as this has occurred, and with the overall world labour market, prices have sharply increased in recent years. I can clearly recall a previous parallel example. In the late 1950s and early 60s a box/set of W. Britains Ltd. cost between $1.25 to $2.00 USD (sometimes less on sale), but even then, a single Greenwood & Ball figure was priced from $6.50 to $9.50 USD, at the time an exorbitant cost.

The second factor of this evolution being the trend from merely display of mass formations to dioramas, has caused a change in the resultant facets of judgement and appreciation of individual collections. And again Malcom Forbes presentation format formerly at his museum then in Tangiers, Morocco and Anne Brown’s collection at the Brown University Library (see; https://library.brown.edu/collections/askb/ ) being significant exceptions.

Until recently dioramas were predominately the domain of museums. Once again, the exceptions being individual “objects de art” and/or vignettes. Here artists in the Russian Federation would appear to currently predominate the field. Not unlike the media of more classic and conventional art (with the obvious exception of modern abstract art), the elements of composition, historical accuracy, visual effects, and unique subject matter/backgrounds are significant factors. In this author’s opinion this tends to relegate the figures to merely an element, albeit essential, of the artist’s palette.

All that having been said there is absolutely nothing to be taken, inferred, or intended of a negative or derogatory nature by this evolution, it is that, an evolution, which should be both recognized and appreciated. However, there is one disconcerting element in addition to the sharp price increases that is universal, that being the almost absolute absence of younger aged collectors.

Arnhem Jim (aka Arnhemjim)
Arizona Territory
 
To Members of the Forum,
Given the realization of repeating myself, I would, none the less like to reiterate my personal assessment of the state of our hobby:

Update on the State of Toy Soldier Collecting

This author personally believes that a significant evolution has occurred in the collecting of toy soldiers. As has been previously and frequently stated in this blog at least two major factors have been driving the collection of toy soldiers/military miniatures for at least several decades. I personally feel that for the serious collector, regardless of their resources or perspective of interest, there has been an evolution from the classic toy soldier to the military miniature, i.e. from vintage Minot and W. Britains Ltd to King & Country, Tommy Gunn and John Jenkins, just as examples. Strongly illustrative of this trend is the decrease of auctions of vintage toy soldiers (W. Britains) in both the United States and Great Britain, and the overall diminished presence and quality of the sets being offered on e-Bay and at auction. Further corroborating this fact is the significant overall decrease of prices realized at auction in recent years, again with exceptions. If one views recent photographs at the decreasing number of remaining toy soldier shows (West Coaster (on again/off again) and Texas are tenuous and significantly diminished, and in the U.K. the shows also much smaller) the discernible absence of the classic red W. Britains boxes is consistent. The notable exceptions (there are always exceptions) being William Hocker and Imperial (New Zealand). Hocker more so than Imperial, providing a nostalgic bridge to the past. In addition the remaining actual brick and mortar actual toy soldier shops have continued to decrease

My personal opinion is that the increase in scale, 1:32 (54mm) to 1:30 (60mm), and the resultant significant increase in detail, quality of figure sculpture and painting (and in most cases historical accuracy), and the predomination of matte over gloss finish, have been the principal results. Obviously as this has occurred, and with the overall world labour market, prices have sharply increased in recent years. I can clearly recall a previous parallel example. In the late 1950s and early 60s a box/set of W. Britains Ltd. cost between $1.25 to $2.00 USD (sometimes less on sale), but even then, a single Greenwood & Ball figure was priced from $6.50 to $9.50 USD, at the time an exorbitant cost.

The second factor of this evolution being the trend from merely display of mass formations to dioramas, has caused a change in the resultant facets of judgement and appreciation of individual collections. And again Malcom Forbes presentation format formerly at his museum then in Tangiers, Morocco and Anne Brown’s collection at the Brown University Library (see; https://library.brown.edu/collections/askb/ ) being significant exceptions.

Until recently dioramas were predominately the domain of museums. Once again, the exceptions being individual “objects de art” and/or vignettes. Here artists in the Russian Federation would appear to currently predominate the field. Not unlike the media of more classic and conventional art (with the obvious exception of modern abstract art), the elements of composition, historical accuracy, visual effects, and unique subject matter/backgrounds are significant factors. In this author’s opinion this tends to relegate the figures to merely an element, albeit essential, of the artist’s palette.

All that having been said there is absolutely nothing to be taken, inferred, or intended of a negative or derogatory nature by this evolution, it is that, an evolution, which should be both recognized and appreciated. However, there is one disconcerting element in addition to the sharp price increases that is universal, that being the almost absolute absence of younger aged collectors.

Arnhem Jim (aka Arnhemjim)
Arizona Territory


Very interesting. So is there a future for glossy soldiers? I'd like to hear a professional or at least well-informed opinion, such as yours. In any case, I love my glossies and will hold onto them as they get more rare.
Paddy for Pat Sr & Paddy
 
George, I often don't disagree with you, but see my other post. IMO not really sad she lost her job, too much dead weight is allowed to constantly hang in our school systems and she made this a bigger issue b/c of why I don't know other than most morons don't like to be told they are wrong! As they say, periodically you got to take out the trash!!

TD

Not sure how it is in the US, however down here if you dare 'question' someone, or 'go against the grain' as they say, you can expect to get labelled a fruit-loop and get ridiculed, whether or not your question is valid or not.

There seems this growing attitude within society that taking responsibility for your actions/failings amounts to some form of discrimination or intolerance.

For me its simply 'free speech' however many seem more concerned about political correctness and avoiding causing offence.
 
As for the thread topic, my opinion for what its worth is quite simple, like most things in life the hobby is continuously changing and adapting to its ever changing environment.

Collectors are a discerning lot.

Generally speaking they know what they like or more importantly what they don't like and in most cases money talks and often has the final say? ^&grin
 
As for the thread topic, my opinion for what its worth is quite simple, like most things in life the hobby is continuously changing and adapting to its ever changing environment.

Collectors are a discerning lot.

Generally speaking they know what they like or more importantly what they don't like and in most cases money talks and often has the final say? ^&grin

This sums up the hobby in a nutshell.

The only thing constant about it is change.

And yes, in the end, the collectors drive the bus, or more to the point, they vote with their wallets.
 
To Members of the Forum,
Given the realization of repeating myself, I would, none the less like to reiterate my personal assessment of the state of our hobby:

Update on the State of Toy Soldier Collecting

This author personally believes that a significant evolution has occurred in the collecting of toy soldiers. As has been previously and frequently stated in this blog at least two major factors have been driving the collection of toy soldiers/military miniatures for at least several decades. I personally feel that for the serious collector, regardless of their resources or perspective of interest, there has been an evolution from the classic toy soldier to the military miniature, i.e. from vintage Minot and W. Britains Ltd to King & Country, Tommy Gunn and John Jenkins, just as examples. Strongly illustrative of this trend is the decrease of auctions of vintage toy soldiers (W. Britains) in both the United States and Great Britain, and the overall diminished presence and quality of the sets being offered on e-Bay and at auction. Further corroborating this fact is the significant overall decrease of prices realized at auction in recent years, again with exceptions. If one views recent photographs at the decreasing number of remaining toy soldier shows (West Coaster (on again/off again) and Texas are tenuous and significantly diminished, and in the U.K. the shows also much smaller) the discernible absence of the classic red W. Britains boxes is consistent. The notable exceptions (there are always exceptions) being William Hocker and Imperial (New Zealand). Hocker more so than Imperial, providing a nostalgic bridge to the past. In addition the remaining actual brick and mortar actual toy soldier shops have continued to decrease

My personal opinion is that the increase in scale, 1:32 (54mm) to 1:30 (60mm), and the resultant significant increase in detail, quality of figure sculpture and painting (and in most cases historical accuracy), and the predomination of matte over gloss finish, have been the principal results. Obviously as this has occurred, and with the overall world labour market, prices have sharply increased in recent years. I can clearly recall a previous parallel example. In the late 1950s and early 60s a box/set of W. Britains Ltd. cost between $1.25 to $2.00 USD (sometimes less on sale), but even then, a single Greenwood & Ball figure was priced from $6.50 to $9.50 USD, at the time an exorbitant cost.

The second factor of this evolution being the trend from merely display of mass formations to dioramas, has caused a change in the resultant facets of judgement and appreciation of individual collections. And again Malcom Forbes presentation format formerly at his museum then in Tangiers, Morocco and Anne Brown’s collection at the Brown University Library (see; https://library.brown.edu/collections/askb/ ) being significant exceptions.

Until recently dioramas were predominately the domain of museums. Once again, the exceptions being individual “objects de art” and/or vignettes. Here artists in the Russian Federation would appear to currently predominate the field. Not unlike the media of more classic and conventional art (with the obvious exception of modern abstract art), the elements of composition, historical accuracy, visual effects, and unique subject matter/backgrounds are significant factors. In this author’s opinion this tends to relegate the figures to merely an element, albeit essential, of the artist’s palette.

All that having been said there is absolutely nothing to be taken, inferred, or intended of a negative or derogatory nature by this evolution, it is that, an evolution, which should be both recognized and appreciated. However, there is one disconcerting element in addition to the sharp price increases that is universal, that being the almost absolute absence of younger aged collectors.

Arnhem Jim (aka Arnhemjim)
Arizona Territory
Jim
I agree with you about the Falling prices, and quality of sets overal for sale at Auction, and also on Electronc selling Platforms. And the steady dissappearanceof the traditional Glossy Toy Soldier. I have written about this subject on Social Media for several years previously, and have some observations of my own experience I wish to share with you and any other readers here.
  1. Dissappearance of newly intereste Hobby customers among the young.
  2. Class Room Government Policy towards teaching History, and Methods and teaching materials used or NOT used.
  3. Vanishing Book Shops and Quality reliable reference resources and Printed matter;
  4. Industry Labour costs and Product pricing (too high by far for young people !!!)
  5. Widespread resulting ignorance and overall lack of Historical Knowledge amongst the young generations.
  6. Death of a alrge number of Hobby Industry collectors, Characters and Supporters. resulting shrinking ageing dwindeling marketplace, with Closing Kit and High street model toy soldier shops.
  7. Internet buying from electronic Platforms falsely inflating prices for often inferior sub standard or even Counterfeit Piracy illegal copy products.
  8. Weak Consumer law protection for Creative Sculptors and Artists involved in Master figure and or Mould tool making. (Extorionate legal fees make enforcing your copyright a ridiculously wasteful process and encourages thieves to our industry).
  9. High levels of Single parent families in Uk and France EU. (In france sixty percent of child has ONE Parent only (hence not too much if any Money to spen on toy figures) Last year 1.5 Million french chld no have a single Christmas present.

The lack of detailed History teaching and detail of subject matter taught in School Classrooms has seriously been corroded. This is especially true in France and in the Uk Classrooms. reasons for this appear to be an inherent fear of mentioning certain religious conflicts for fear of upsetting the sometimes highly and dangerously strung sensibilites of the UK and EU foreign immigrant community and there religions. In France there have been for some years now a series of orcestrated violent attacks on School teachers specializing in History. The tragic death of school professor samuel Patty who was actually BEHEADED, Murdered in cold blood !!! by extremists, "informed" on from angry pupils in his very own classroom, is but merely one tragic and serious point.

History is not now taught in UK or (some) EU schools as it once was. or "should" be today i will say it. A climate of curiosity and enquirey in our young peoples minds has been replaced instead by the attitude almost that such Historical questions are "forbidden knowledge" and dangerous material. Instead of being prepared to adjust to Multi Cultural Societies, which are increasingly present EVERYWHERE in the 21st century, fear of mentioning "the wrong thing" has acted as a suffocating restraint to progress in aknowledgeing everybodys palce in Human History. And with this, the comprehension of the shapeing of the world, from Caesar and Vercingetorix of gaul, to other Political conflicts in History.
With the loss of healthy reading to our young peoples minds, comes the loss of access to descriptive detailed accurrate Historical Artwrk, of decent Pictures, maps, descriptions and styles of everything from Ancient buildings and artwork to the battle plan of Thermoplyae or Zama.
Our Young persons spend FAR TOO MUCH time playing profitless games on Smartphones, and reading instead of Quality eruditely written books, they read and believe "Internet Historya rticles" many if not all of which are transitory, frequently ammened edited or altered even deleted. Internet History and study materials are NOT A SUBSTITUTE for decent books and colour Plans, such as the once hugely use and class wall famous co operation Pedagogique series of large airbrushed printed colour pictures which until the mid seventies were a regular feature of a normal classroom wall.
i have a collection of them on my Toy Soldier Business painting room wall, i bought from a vide grenier years ago. beautiful colour pictures, which when used and combined with text and discussion, led to a good understanding among youngpeople. Advent of Computer, Smartphone, Game Console and all day tv service, has been enormously and lethaly corrossive of young persons psychology and ability to develop, grow and matre thinking and perceptive skills of Small and Gross "Motor".

I have to say this has been a counter productive and dangerous policy, which instead of giving greater peace, stability and safety in the school classroom or wider environs of society, instead has merely added and greatly fuelled conflict, Social Division, dis trust, suspicion, dis unity, fear and distrust, the very things a healthy and correct understanding of History absolutely seeks to AVOID doing !!!

Transparency and above all HONESTY is the cure for this malaise. And the Honest IMPARTIAL teaching of History which DOES NOT attack criticize insult or abuse persons from other backgrounds and Minoritys. Hstory belongs TO ALL persons. Supressing Books, Book Shops and creating false and highly missleading Internet articles, and making substitutions for creative hobby past times instead with the Telly, Smartphone Computer Internet or video nasty games, is a retrospective reverse step. it is destroying our Industry, the second hand and book printing industry and attrracting a number of cowboy Toy Soldier operators with a get rich bust it quick copyright piracy product market. E bay is full of them.
Weak, ineffective, slip shop and white collar crime ripp off fees charged by lawyers, makes enforecement of creativ artists, sculptors and figure makers un interesting and un attrractive.
the situation of parasite operators making ILLEGAL PIRACY copyright infrignement kits and contraband figures is rife in the Industry, asis blatant copying.

Copying and stealing by greedy dealers and workshops will i swear be the Anihilation of our hobbby industry.
too many Mould tooligs, masters and decades of quality work go "walk abouts" in this industry and are never now able easily if at all to be replaced.

When a school child we regularly looked forward to a History teaching and a quiz on a friday afternoon from our headmaster Peter Abbot. But today, I have personaly encountered former students who do not even know a thing about the American war of Indepednance or that America was once in fact a british tax paying Colony. This leads to a sheer loss of, and fundamental lack of "interest" in all things Historic, be it customs, costums, Ancient battles or the great doings and human issues or struggles of each Historical History period.

This denies our young people OF ALL Religious or social or class denominations, the opportunity to enrich there lives, and add depth to their perception of our times, of the evolving nature of human history, and blocks the discovery of a large number of subjects and visual or text based materials from study. And the declining level of teachers prepared to tolerate the classroom conditions and policy situations which have been "tolerated" have also fuelled a more rpaid, steady decline in knowledge of History and any or all things which might also include matters of a civil, social, custom based or Military nature.
The young people, once present at every toy figure and model kit show, are rare these days. Plastic kits and toy soldiers have become in recent years more expensive,, the very high cost of kits and toy figures has been the veritable kiss of death for young people, whose pay is all too often abusively derisory, and meagre during their early work life years. Our Hobby is after all as my old step father liked to carp, a "Luxury item". it is considered by cash strapped parents (increasingly single parents !!!) as a costly Luxury of little value. And thereis little if NO "disposable Income" which defeats the often heard dealer notion at shows of "we charge what the market will bear".

Well, they are in for a shock. because times are changed, the market WONT BEAR IT, (or forgive it) and instead the young have all migrated elsewhere taking their precious bank notes credit cards and coin to other markets instead. , leaving the supplyof recruits to our Hobby a dry river bed.

In our Industry, as a key french paris supplier recently told me, "we have a ever increasing number of persons trying to enter this Industry, but eacha nd every one of us is now obliged to pursue our customers from an ever shrinking and getting smaller shallwer well pond of Hobby waters. This well pond hobby resource of our customers will frankly continue to shrink, retrace, dry up and god forbid DISSAPPEAR in a few short years unless the Industry acts together and acceptssome sort of common policy re labour, pricing, materials and finding, nay CREATING new customers.

So, simply, profoundly, Governmental Policy and its surrounding side effects towards education, have instead of helping heal social Division, have merely accellerrated it and greatly encouraged it, along with equaly encouraging a broader, ever widening, ever deepening, rift between each successive generation, and a sense of being "Rootless" amongst our young people.
ths has serious long term social consequences which alas reach far farther than the local toy soldier club room or Hobby Show.

The effects of the loss and serious decline in the printing and buying of quality books by the younger people, and the declining availability of Secondhand affordable book shops on our High streets, is another death blw to our Hobby today.
When visiting the Toy Soldier Museum near Compiegne (Armistice signing railway line site) my wife and i heard a young French boy, around seventeen years of age, admiring and liking the wonderfull large dioramas of toy soldiers on show there. he turned to his parents and said "Thesea re the sorts of things i would like to be able to buy and have at home, IF ONLY we knew how or where to get them or make them".

This says it all, not just for our French boys and girls, but for many nations now adays .

Unless and until the "Grassroots"of the hobby and Industry return, with younger new faces, this hobby will dwindle and become History itself.

Thereis a saying "Old soldiers never die, they just fade away".


Maxime Chevallier is an accomplished Social media writer with over 100 million viewers.
 
No Inference of a Ethnic, religious or Political bias should be drawn or taken or made, this above article merely seeks to explain the complex Social, Consumer, Industry and School Classroom background origins and other, Boook shop, printing, educative for decline in Toy Soldier hobby Industry and Model Kit making hobby at home or club. . Article aims for Transparency and access of ALL young persons or older, REGARDLESSof social status, background or belief, to accurrate history enriched IMPARTIAL understandings, and to understanding of Toy Soldier Creative figure Hobby.
 
I don't think we need DEI in the toy soldier world. It's made up primarily of old, white guys who like history. That's just a simple fact. This is not a product of discrimination or education. There are some things that old, white guys like. There are a lot of educated women, but they are mostly not interested in toy soldiers. Young people are not interested. And there are few minorities in the hobby. There are just cultural differences that exist between people. Diversity isn't forcing everyone to like the same things. I frequently drive through the Gettysburg battlefield. Who do you see there? Old, white guys dragging around their families who are bored. Almost never do you see any other demographic. Our education system is broken, but the toy soldier market has always appealed to the same basic demographic even when it wasn't. I don't see that changing.

I do think that many hobbies have seen prices increase to the point that only older folks who are wealthy can afford them. There is an amazingly robust market for toy soldiers given the exorbitant prices. It's amazing to me that anyone still collects them. Not that some people do not. The decline of the shows is a function of the Internet. Why travel, with all its headaches and expenses, when everything is available at your fingertips and comes to your front door? No more or less than that. Interjecting a lengthy social commentary is, in my opinion, grinding a larger political view into our hobby. Which is perfectly fine but doesn't move the ball.
 
Some further reasons which contribute to the decline in the Toy Soldier and Character figure Hobby.

In the UK the pernicious attitudes of certain "Freehold" and "property Company" type landlords, over rental Contracts and or Leasehold or Freehold Agreement and Documentation "clauses" has defiantely been a cause of toruble, and to a great many decent hard working sall sized shops. This defiantely includes Toy Soldier type Hobby Shops.

Sky High "Cleaning common areas" charges, sub standard renovation, defective repairs (or non repair) and un justified skyhigh rents that keep decent highstreet proeprties empty and deny the service from them to the local commmunity, have contnued genraly un stopped, unchecked by the Local town or area councils and town halls.

certain towns, like Shepton mallet, have had large areas of their high street boarded up and empty, shut down for years on end.
No body wants to go there or pay whopping sky high deposits to greedylandlords.
the extortinately high charges levied by "commercial proeprty companies" or landlords, is un justified and un justifible outside terms expressing sheer greediness and short term money grabbing.

The City of WELLS in Somerset, has commercial property rents that a few shot years ago were now found to be "Higher than mayfair in Londons District". All down to the sky high un capped rents and "service charges" expected from often "Non resident Absentee landords who appear to have an address in a Luxuries aprt of Italy, Nice, Portugal, Southern france and even China.

Un Scrupulous "Property Companies" go un checked at Companies House in London, often the "companies" march on "paper only" and are a "front" for local criminals and the laundering of money coming fom highly questionable sources.

"THINK HOW MANY YOU WOULD HAVE TO SELL"

How can a seller of toy soldiers compete and afford to even pay this lot all this un deserved income revenue and still enoy and earn a living daily wage of Income,
think if you are even contemplating setting up a Toy Soldier shop and or Model shop, how much andhow many you got to make and thensell to your customers.
I calculated taht my break even point for a shop in the West country back in around 2008/9 was around 38.00 per Hour.
Any "less" than that figure, quite simply was throwing all your hard wwork, investment and business down a dirty black hole.

Another enemy of the Industry certainly at least in the Uk is the greedy property market. These days it is virtually well ngh impossible to purchase a house, old farm or sutable buildings from which one may quietly "enjoy" and operate your toy soldier, sculpting or Art based business.

When I returned to france after the death of my (real) French father in 2008, I was able to find suitable property with space to park, have a workshop or atelier, and anice garden for a modest sum in payment. true, i rolled up my sleeves and had to do a lot of re decorating, and soe repairs, yet despite that, it proved well worth the effort.

I think the future of this Industry actually lies and remains, back in its past, when those who had the "shop" or studio, lived there eitherover it next to it or sometimes even under it (Chota Sahibs wold famous range by Sid Horton operated out of the basemet of his Brightone seaside home.

Jaco and Thelma Duc eastleght of world famous "DUCAL" toy soldiers operated out of a Fort, called "Fort Ducal".
No one ever realized that "Fort Ducal" was the family garden shed !!!!!! And it WORKED fine none the less for Thirty long beautiful and successful years of supplying some of the brightets, beautiful colourful toy metal soldiers to clients al around the world.

Find a suitable garden and build a dedicated secure wooden workshop, or convert an old washroom or garage at your home (subject to by laws and of course planning permission).

AVOID PAYMENT of costly and exorbitant "commercial rents" or contracts. if you do not have to pay a rent or a credit (Morgage debt charge) then your prices should become immediately more competitive. A great help towards Industry recovery if enough folks do this. Affrdable prices are essential.

MATERIALS
recently i designed and offerred a course on using Clay Figure masters; certain "old seats" derided me for ths, yet to me it is crystal cear. Time honoured relaible effective methods should not vanish forever from our Industry, leaving everyone at the doubtful "mercy" of the 3D Commercial Printing file software contract briaged.

3D Printing has a place, but files, complicated copying or file software rules and terms, and sky high costs charged for 3 D Printing are really another counter productive area of our Industry requirng regulation and corrective emasures. it is frankly a potential "lawyers paradise".

Keeping your overheads below your head, and avoiding costly changes where NONE are required, is another way of saving precious funds and avoiding increasing prices again. Sid Horton and Charles Stadden used clay masters. Enough said. try it some time you might just like it !!

PAYMENT of "Workers". Ethics or Price?

William (Bill) HOCKER of the United States,
employed Immigrant labout, of newly arrived us Citizens in America. This worked well for many years. Painting the toy soldiers, in order to be able eventualy, to offer quality hand made toy soldier items, is important if your business is to reallly grow much. But the painting, especiallyof certain complex uniforms and equipments or flags etc, can easily cost dear, and frequently however "skilled" your painter may be, will take time to produce client ready work you can sell or ship to your customers.

When I ran Chota Sahib Studio Figurine from EX P J Willis or Sarum Soldiers, in UK, our Mounted Dragoon (in reality a Roger Berdou classic figure !!) cost 56 UK Pound sterling. That because it cost our painter several hours to paint to a high standard. They were the most expensive figures in my product range. The lest expensive is the Chess et "castle" piece.
Since we acquired DUCAL range, it is the enormous tartan Kilt clad Scottish Warriors whose Complex tartans require carefull time consuming painting to produce to saleable painted set quality.
This is why I took the decision not to immediately start up "Studio paris Art" with selling painted sets, and only to supply metal unpainted kits or and castings to customers in the early days.

Moving overseas certainly saved me Money on workshop costs overall. (despite our former Uk retailer trying to steal and then piracy sell some of our products!).

Ease of Motorwaya ccess for our Commercial base is also exceptionaly helpful in terms of delivery transportation etc and some Shows. Due to property restrictive covenants in UK laws this is "seldom" a possibility there anymore. Perhaps areas in Scotland or Wales? Ireland?

Certain "Big" Toy Soldier dealers have achieved this, by using China or other "Distant land" based labour, paying peanuts for wages and treating thei hardworking over seas staff as if theya re moniies, Apen....A certain key UK dealer several years ago had a lot of T shirts printed, andd escribed his Business as a "family business". (Made and painted in a foreign country then imported and packed by his "family".
They charged high prices, raked in record profits, (for a few years until the bubble busrsted). Meanwhile they inflicted appalling co lateral damage on the industry in Europe.

Flooding the market with over priced yet appallingly cheaply made toy soldier product has proved another enemy and burden or other smaller but quality toy soldier operators to have to compete or deal with. When a certain "Big" name funds and effectively controls a huge amount of the Hobby Forums, and or Hobby Periodical Publications, we are all in for a rough ride before long.....

How much do you pay for our painter or workshop help? it all contributed and adds up. But you NEED to offer "painted figure sets".
Francois VERLINDEN, the worlds most professional figure and Diorama maker, turned "Professional" after winning a high number of top flight Hobby awards in the seventies and eighties. VERLINDEN Productions was a highly lucrative and once successfull Model kit and toy figure business. But now it has closed down and is sadly no more.
no one seems to "know" what everhappened to all the precious creative mould tolings or masters either.....
Another fatal blow to the EU Industry.

Somewhere, someplace, costs got to "give", flexibility exist, and common sense and reasonableness prevail.

Or are those words too arkane or old fashioned for certain characters in our Industry to countenance or pallate?


. China is what it is, close eyes to this if you do, but there HAS to be a hobby Industry futre which is NON CHINA based in its grass roots and origins. Local toy soldier shops, retailers and clubs have to make a come back.

Conditions underlying the decline in the Industry therefore seriously need to be addressed and combated effectively.

Governments need to pay attention to the needs of the Industry,and make more fair, just and equitable laws for Toy Soldier and Artistic creators and their shops, workshops and Studios.
New affordable laws to stop Piracy copyright "pimping" in the Indstry are needed to protect the commercial patterns, designs and artistic creations of the toy Soldier artists and designers.
Thus encouraging more people back into trying the Industry again. That should help reverse the trend.

When and IF ever it gets "done" !!!!




Max and Maryse FABRE CHEVALLIER own and run "Studio paris Art" (VEB). They have their own Studio and workshops in the EU. They have just re launched the former DUCAL, Mountford, Rose and Under two Flags ranges of toy soldier figures.
They also own Chota Sahib, Studio Figurine range (Ex P J D Willis ranges) and Rosedale product ranges.
 
Some further reasons which contribute to the decline in the Toy Soldier and Character figure Hobby.

In the UK the pernicious attitudes of certain "Freehold" and "property Company" type landlords, over rental Contracts and or Leasehold or Freehold Agreement and Documentation "clauses" has defiantely been a cause of toruble, and to a great many decent hard working sall sized shops. This defiantely includes Toy Soldier type Hobby Shops.

Sky High "Cleaning common areas" charges, sub standard renovation, defective repairs (or non repair) and un justified skyhigh rents that keep decent highstreet proeprties empty and deny the service from them to the local commmunity, have contnued genraly un stopped, unchecked by the Local town or area councils and town halls.

certain towns, like Shepton mallet, have had large areas of their high street boarded up and empty, shut down for years on end.
No body wants to go there or pay whopping sky high deposits to greedylandlords.
the extortinately high charges levied by "commercial proeprty companies" or landlords, is un justified and un justifible outside terms expressing sheer greediness and short term money grabbing.

The City of WELLS in Somerset, has commercial property rents that a few shot years ago were now found to be "Higher than mayfair in Londons District". All down to the sky high un capped rents and "service charges" expected from often "Non resident Absentee landords who appear to have an address in a Luxuries aprt of Italy, Nice, Portugal, Southern france and even China.

Un Scrupulous "Property Companies" go un checked at Companies House in London, often the "companies" march on "paper only" and are a "front" for local criminals and the laundering of money coming fom highly questionable sources.

"THINK HOW MANY YOU WOULD HAVE TO SELL"

How can a seller of toy soldiers compete and afford to even pay this lot all this un deserved income revenue and still enoy and earn a living daily wage of Income,
think if you are even contemplating setting up a Toy Soldier shop and or Model shop, how much andhow many you got to make and thensell to your customers.
I calculated taht my break even point for a shop in the West country back in around 2008/9 was around 38.00 per Hour.
Any "less" than that figure, quite simply was throwing all your hard wwork, investment and business down a dirty black hole.

Another enemy of the Industry certainly at least in the Uk is the greedy property market. These days it is virtually well ngh impossible to purchase a house, old farm or sutable buildings from which one may quietly "enjoy" and operate your toy soldier, sculpting or Art based business.

When I returned to france after the death of my (real) French father in 2008, I was able to find suitable property with space to park, have a workshop or atelier, and anice garden for a modest sum in payment. true, i rolled up my sleeves and had to do a lot of re decorating, and soe repairs, yet despite that, it proved well worth the effort.

I think the future of this Industry actually lies and remains, back in its past, when those who had the "shop" or studio, lived there eitherover it next to it or sometimes even under it (Chota Sahibs wold famous range by Sid Horton operated out of the basemet of his Brightone seaside home.

Jaco and Thelma Duc eastleght of world famous "DUCAL" toy soldiers operated out of a Fort, called "Fort Ducal".
No one ever realized that "Fort Ducal" was the family garden shed !!!!!! And it WORKED fine none the less for Thirty long beautiful and successful years of supplying some of the brightets, beautiful colourful toy metal soldiers to clients al around the world.

Find a suitable garden and build a dedicated secure wooden workshop, or convert an old washroom or garage at your home (subject to by laws and of course planning permission).

AVOID PAYMENT of costly and exorbitant "commercial rents" or contracts. if you do not have to pay a rent or a credit (Morgage debt charge) then your prices should become immediately more competitive. A great help towards Industry recovery if enough folks do this. Affrdable prices are essential.

MATERIALS
recently i designed and offerred a course on using Clay Figure masters; certain "old seats" derided me for ths, yet to me it is crystal cear. Time honoured relaible effective methods should not vanish forever from our Industry, leaving everyone at the doubtful "mercy" of the 3D Commercial Printing file software contract briaged.

3D Printing has a place, but files, complicated copying or file software rules and terms, and sky high costs charged for 3 D Printing are really another counter productive area of our Industry requirng regulation and corrective emasures. it is frankly a potential "lawyers paradise".

Keeping your overheads below your head, and avoiding costly changes where NONE are required, is another way of saving precious funds and avoiding increasing prices again. Sid Horton and Charles Stadden used clay masters. Enough said. try it some time you might just like it !!

PAYMENT of "Workers". Ethics or Price?

William (Bill) HOCKER of the United States,
employed Immigrant labout, of newly arrived us Citizens in America. This worked well for many years. Painting the toy soldiers, in order to be able eventualy, to offer quality hand made toy soldier items, is important if your business is to reallly grow much. But the painting, especiallyof certain complex uniforms and equipments or flags etc, can easily cost dear, and frequently however "skilled" your painter may be, will take time to produce client ready work you can sell or ship to your customers.

When I ran Chota Sahib Studio Figurine from EX P J Willis or Sarum Soldiers, in UK, our Mounted Dragoon (in reality a Roger Berdou classic figure !!) cost 56 UK Pound sterling. That because it cost our painter several hours to paint to a high standard. They were the most expensive figures in my product range. The lest expensive is the Chess et "castle" piece.
Since we acquired DUCAL range, it is the enormous tartan Kilt clad Scottish Warriors whose Complex tartans require carefull time consuming painting to produce to saleable painted set quality.
This is why I took the decision not to immediately start up "Studio paris Art" with selling painted sets, and only to supply metal unpainted kits or and castings to customers in the early days.

Moving overseas certainly saved me Money on workshop costs overall. (despite our former Uk retailer trying to steal and then piracy sell some of our products!).

Ease of Motorwaya ccess for our Commercial base is also exceptionaly helpful in terms of delivery transportation etc and some Shows. Due to property restrictive covenants in UK laws this is "seldom" a possibility there anymore. Perhaps areas in Scotland or Wales? Ireland?

Certain "Big" Toy Soldier dealers have achieved this, by using China or other "Distant land" based labour, paying peanuts for wages and treating thei hardworking over seas staff as if theya re moniies, Apen....A certain key UK dealer several years ago had a lot of T shirts printed, andd escribed his Business as a "family business". (Made and painted in a foreign country then imported and packed by his "family".
They charged high prices, raked in record profits, (for a few years until the bubble busrsted). Meanwhile they inflicted appalling co lateral damage on the industry in Europe.

Flooding the market with over priced yet appallingly cheaply made toy soldier product has proved another enemy and burden or other smaller but quality toy soldier operators to have to compete or deal with. When a certain "Big" name funds and effectively controls a huge amount of the Hobby Forums, and or Hobby Periodical Publications, we are all in for a rough ride before long.....

How much do you pay for our painter or workshop help? it all contributed and adds up. But you NEED to offer "painted figure sets".
Francois VERLINDEN, the worlds most professional figure and Diorama maker, turned "Professional" after winning a high number of top flight Hobby awards in the seventies and eighties. VERLINDEN Productions was a highly lucrative and once successfull Model kit and toy figure business. But now it has closed down and is sadly no more.
no one seems to "know" what everhappened to all the precious creative mould tolings or masters either.....
Another fatal blow to the EU Industry.

Somewhere, someplace, costs got to "give", flexibility exist, and common sense and reasonableness prevail.

Or are those words too arkane or old fashioned for certain characters in our Industry to countenance or pallate?


. China is what it is, close eyes to this if you do, but there HAS to be a hobby Industry futre which is NON CHINA based in its grass roots and origins. Local toy soldier shops, retailers and clubs have to make a come back.

Conditions underlying the decline in the Industry therefore seriously need to be addressed and combated effectively.

Governments need to pay attention to the needs of the Industry,and make more fair, just and equitable laws for Toy Soldier and Artistic creators and their shops, workshops and Studios.
New affordable laws to stop Piracy copyright "pimping" in the Indstry are needed to protect the commercial patterns, designs and artistic creations of the toy Soldier artists and designers.
Thus encouraging more people back into trying the Industry again. That should help reverse the trend.

When and IF ever it gets "done" !!!!




Max and Maryse FABRE CHEVALLIER own and run "Studio paris Art" (VEB). They have their own Studio and workshops in the EU. They have just re launched the former DUCAL, Mountford, Rose and Under two Flags ranges of toy soldier figures.
They also own Chota Sahib, Studio Figurine range (Ex P J D Willis ranges) and Rosedale product ranges.
I have tried to decipher the contents of your posts, however they are heavily laden with obscure detail, much of which is opinion based lacking in evidence and seem more like a trip down memory lane.

Which of course is totally fine, however feels more like a series of moans about the alleged decline of the hobby.

I don’t see it that way at all to be honest.

Nothing ever stays the same and I find lamenting the past doesn’t really achieve anything positive.

Businesses come and go for whatever reasons and prices rarely go down. I’m just thankful we have this hobby and still around to enjoy it.

Cheers.
 

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