Our changing hobby-the decline of shows and possible alternatives (1 Viewer)

Warrior said:
I guess my bigger concern is I've completely lost track of the original subject of this thread...……………...
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{sm4}{sm4}{sm4}....To catch up the thread is....lack of adequate history classes to our kids and a bias teaching inefficiency on part of some ill prepared teachers, side track our sons from getting interested in History and as a direct consequence on TS collecting and this leads to a decline to hobby collecting and therefore new venues for fairs....Guess this sums it...
Cheers
Artillery_Crazy:salute:::salute:::salute::
 
I did not get interested in history via school, I got interested in it because of my Dad. When I was about 6 years old he would read a Bridge too Far as my bedtime reading. It started me on my path of learning about World War 2 and it led to my toy soldier collecting. The rest, as they say, is history.
 
Panzer ace said:
I did not get interested in history via school, I got interested in it because of my Dad. When I was about 6 years old he would read a Bridge too Far as my bedtime reading. It started me on my path of learning about World War 2 and it led to my toy soldier collecting. The rest, as they say, is history.
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Love it. My dad used to read to me and my brother when we were small children, only we didn't get history, we got such stories as Peter Cottontail and lots of Thornton Burgess animal stories, such as Longlegs the Heron, Jerry Muskrat, or Grandfather Frog. I liked the animals, but I wouldn't have minded a little WW1 air combat such as G-8 and his Battle Aces.:wink2: -- Al
 
Back to the original topic.

The hobby is changing, they always do, but I compare it to the Train Hobby:

A. Train Hobby still has 2 large shows - Greenberg and The Great Scale. In MD they operate each 2-3 times per year, well attended.

B. Smaller shows - Yes, train hobby does the same thing - swaps at VFWs, Fire Halls, etc. Also well attended.

Aging - well, that is tough to gauge, yes it definitely is, but I think of myself, I took a break from age 15-30 or thereabouts. Spent the major time and money in my 30s when I had established an income. Still spending more money................!

The Internet - nuff said, you can find literally anything on it. Online Auctions - you can virtually bid as if you were there, it is now so easy.

I still like shows as I have said, they are fun to me. Also, it is a place to find stuff at a good price. New items may not sell as well at shows as they once did b/c they are very readily available and people have gotten used to buying online. At shows, deals are made on both sides and that is a good thing IMO. I do understand how shows may not represent a large part of a dealers annual income (as they used to). Chicago seemingly still works and Hackensack last year was off the charts, so go figure?

As with anything, the end of the day, the hobby is what you wish to make of it. Britains and Mignot have been around for over a century, I am hopeful that trend continues.

TD
 
tdubel said:
Back to the original topic.

The hobby is changing, they always do, but I compare it to the Train Hobby:

A. Train Hobby still has 2 large shows - Greenberg and The Great Scale. In MD they operate each 2-3 times per year, well attended.

B. Smaller shows - Yes, train hobby does the same thing - swaps at VFWs, Fire Halls, etc. Also well attended.

Aging - well, that is tough to gauge, yes it definitely is, but I think of myself, I took a break from age 15-30 or thereabouts. Spent the major time and money in my 30s when I had established an income. Still spending more money................!

The Internet - nuff said, you can find literally anything on it. Online Auctions - you can virtually bid as if you were there, it is now so easy.

I still like shows as I have said, they are fun to me. Also, it is a place to find stuff at a good price. New items may not sell as well at shows as they once did b/c they are very readily available and people have gotten used to buying online. At shows, deals are made on both sides and that is a good thing IMO. I do understand how shows may not represent a large part of a dealers annual income (as they used to). Chicago seemingly still works and Hackensack last year was off the charts, so go figure?

As with anything, the end of the day, the hobby is what you wish to make of it. Britains and Mignot have been around for over a century, I am hopeful that trend continues.

TD
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I agree with Tom's comments. I say this having walked the floor with him at the Westcoaster on more than one occasion. The internet is great in its own way but I still feel that nothing beats a show or a shop.

The best analogy I can come up with is one that relates to sports. Watching it on TV has tons of advantages. But nothing beats being there in person. From the atmosphere to the experience itself, being there is what creates the memory and cultivates the ultimate interest.
 
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Panzer ace said:
I did not get interested in history via school, I got interested in it because of my Dad. When I was about 6 years old he would read a Bridge too Far as my bedtime reading. It started me on my path of learning about World War 2 and it led to my toy soldier collecting. The rest, as they say, is history.
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In my time,50s history usually meant what explorer found a mountain in peru,,,nothing or very little about The U S let alone europeon or much after 1800,,but then again the Chicago PS were usually full of childless old loons who lived alone in rooms down the street from the school,,certainly never should have been near kids,,let alone been a "teacher" and HATED MALES,,
 
So, the secret to keeping the hobby going may run through Sabaton. I have gotten my 5 yo and 7 yo daughters hooked on Sabaton's "The Last Stand," "The Winged Hussars," and the "The Red Baron." They ask, "Can we rock out, Daddy!?!?" If my wife isn't home, we do massive air guitar fests and then I show them the toy soldiers from the song. Now they think 'Daddy's Toys" are the coolest. Plus, I got them some of the JJD Amazons and my wife Lagertha. So, creating the next generation!

Other good options are "Valhalla Calling," "My Mother Told Me/Song of the Vikings," and Sea Shanty medleys have all piqued their interest in history.
 
To Members of the Forum,
Given the realization of repeating myself, I would, none the less like to reiterate my personal assessment of the state of our hobby:

Update on the State of Toy Soldier Collecting

This author personally believes that a significant evolution has occurred in the collecting of toy soldiers. As has been previously and frequently stated in this blog at least two major factors have been driving the collection of toy soldiers/military miniatures for at least several decades. I personally feel that for the serious collector, regardless of their resources or perspective of interest, there has been an evolution from the classic toy soldier to the military miniature, i.e. from vintage Minot and W. Britains Ltd to King & Country, Tommy Gunn and John Jenkins, just as examples. Strongly illustrative of this trend is the decrease of auctions of vintage toy soldiers (W. Britains) in both the United States and Great Britain, and the overall diminished presence and quality of the sets being offered on e-Bay and at auction. Further corroborating this fact is the significant overall decrease of prices realized at auction in recent years, again with exceptions. If one views recent photographs at the decreasing number of remaining toy soldier shows (West Coaster (on again/off again) and Texas are tenuous and significantly diminished, and in the U.K. the shows also much smaller) the discernible absence of the classic red W. Britains boxes is consistent. The notable exceptions (there are always exceptions) being William Hocker and Imperial (New Zealand). Hocker more so than Imperial, providing a nostalgic bridge to the past. In addition the remaining actual brick and mortar actual toy soldier shops have continued to decrease

My personal opinion is that the increase in scale, 1:32 (54mm) to 1:30 (60mm), and the resultant significant increase in detail, quality of figure sculpture and painting (and in most cases historical accuracy), and the predomination of matte over gloss finish, have been the principal results. Obviously as this has occurred, and with the overall world labour market, prices have sharply increased in recent years. I can clearly recall a previous parallel example. In the late 1950s and early 60s a box/set of W. Britains Ltd. cost between $1.25 to $2.00 USD (sometimes less on sale), but even then, a single Greenwood & Ball figure was priced from $6.50 to $9.50 USD, at the time an exorbitant cost.

The second factor of this evolution being the trend from merely display of mass formations to dioramas, has caused a change in the resultant facets of judgement and appreciation of individual collections. And again Malcom Forbes presentation format formerly at his museum then in Tangiers, Morocco and Anne Brown’s collection at the Brown University Library (see; https://library.brown.edu/collections/askb/ ) being significant exceptions.

Until recently dioramas were predominately the domain of museums. Once again, the exceptions being individual “objects de art” and/or vignettes. Here artists in the Russian Federation would appear to currently predominate the field. Not unlike the media of more classic and conventional art (with the obvious exception of modern abstract art), the elements of composition, historical accuracy, visual effects, and unique subject matter/backgrounds are significant factors. In this author’s opinion this tends to relegate the figures to merely an element, albeit essential, of the artist’s palette.

All that having been said there is absolutely nothing to be taken, inferred, or intended of a negative or derogatory nature by this evolution, it is that, an evolution, which should be both recognized and appreciated. However, there is one disconcerting element in addition to the sharp price increases that is universal, that being the almost absolute absence of younger aged collectors.

Arnhem Jim (aka Arnhemjim)
Arizona Territory
 
Arnhemjim said:
To Members of the Forum,
Given the realization of repeating myself, I would, none the less like to reiterate my personal assessment of the state of our hobby:

Update on the State of Toy Soldier Collecting

This author personally believes that a significant evolution has occurred in the collecting of toy soldiers. As has been previously and frequently stated in this blog at least two major factors have been driving the collection of toy soldiers/military miniatures for at least several decades. I personally feel that for the serious collector, regardless of their resources or perspective of interest, there has been an evolution from the classic toy soldier to the military miniature, i.e. from vintage Minot and W. Britains Ltd to King & Country, Tommy Gunn and John Jenkins, just as examples. Strongly illustrative of this trend is the decrease of auctions of vintage toy soldiers (W. Britains) in both the United States and Great Britain, and the overall diminished presence and quality of the sets being offered on e-Bay and at auction. Further corroborating this fact is the significant overall decrease of prices realized at auction in recent years, again with exceptions. If one views recent photographs at the decreasing number of remaining toy soldier shows (West Coaster (on again/off again) and Texas are tenuous and significantly diminished, and in the U.K. the shows also much smaller) the discernible absence of the classic red W. Britains boxes is consistent. The notable exceptions (there are always exceptions) being William Hocker and Imperial (New Zealand). Hocker more so than Imperial, providing a nostalgic bridge to the past. In addition the remaining actual brick and mortar actual toy soldier shops have continued to decrease

My personal opinion is that the increase in scale, 1:32 (54mm) to 1:30 (60mm), and the resultant significant increase in detail, quality of figure sculpture and painting (and in most cases historical accuracy), and the predomination of matte over gloss finish, have been the principal results. Obviously as this has occurred, and with the overall world labour market, prices have sharply increased in recent years. I can clearly recall a previous parallel example. In the late 1950s and early 60s a box/set of W. Britains Ltd. cost between $1.25 to $2.00 USD (sometimes less on sale), but even then, a single Greenwood & Ball figure was priced from $6.50 to $9.50 USD, at the time an exorbitant cost.

The second factor of this evolution being the trend from merely display of mass formations to dioramas, has caused a change in the resultant facets of judgement and appreciation of individual collections. And again Malcom Forbes presentation format formerly at his museum then in Tangiers, Morocco and Anne Brown’s collection at the Brown University Library (see; https://library.brown.edu/collections/askb/ ) being significant exceptions.

Until recently dioramas were predominately the domain of museums. Once again, the exceptions being individual “objects de art” and/or vignettes. Here artists in the Russian Federation would appear to currently predominate the field. Not unlike the media of more classic and conventional art (with the obvious exception of modern abstract art), the elements of composition, historical accuracy, visual effects, and unique subject matter/backgrounds are significant factors. In this author’s opinion this tends to relegate the figures to merely an element, albeit essential, of the artist’s palette.

All that having been said there is absolutely nothing to be taken, inferred, or intended of a negative or derogatory nature by this evolution, it is that, an evolution, which should be both recognized and appreciated. However, there is one disconcerting element in addition to the sharp price increases that is universal, that being the almost absolute absence of younger aged collectors.

Arnhem Jim (aka Arnhemjim)
Arizona Territory
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Very interesting. So is there a future for glossy soldiers? I'd like to hear a professional or at least well-informed opinion, such as yours. In any case, I love my glossies and will hold onto them as they get more rare.
Paddy for Pat Sr & Paddy
 
tdubel said:
George, I often don't disagree with you, but see my other post. IMO not really sad she lost her job, too much dead weight is allowed to constantly hang in our school systems and she made this a bigger issue b/c of why I don't know other than most morons don't like to be told they are wrong! As they say, periodically you got to take out the trash!!

TD
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Not sure how it is in the US, however down here if you dare 'question' someone, or 'go against the grain' as they say, you can expect to get labelled a fruit-loop and get ridiculed, whether or not your question is valid or not.

There seems this growing attitude within society that taking responsibility for your actions/failings amounts to some form of discrimination or intolerance.

For me its simply 'free speech' however many seem more concerned about political correctness and avoiding causing offence.
 
As for the thread topic, my opinion for what its worth is quite simple, like most things in life the hobby is continuously changing and adapting to its ever changing environment.

Collectors are a discerning lot.

Generally speaking they know what they like or more importantly what they don't like and in most cases money talks and often has the final say? ^&grin
 
Desertkiwi said:
As for the thread topic, my opinion for what its worth is quite simple, like most things in life the hobby is continuously changing and adapting to its ever changing environment.

Collectors are a discerning lot.

Generally speaking they know what they like or more importantly what they don't like and in most cases money talks and often has the final say? ^&grin
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This sums up the hobby in a nutshell.

The only thing constant about it is change.

And yes, in the end, the collectors drive the bus, or more to the point, they vote with their wallets.
 
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