Accuracy, It's a Puzzlement (2 Viewers)

[Saber]

Having served in the military for 20 years, I would assume that any minor variations from perfection are the result of ad hoc modifications by field personnel necessary because of their particular tactical situation...

Man I'm glad I'm not the only vet who's had that same thought! I'm just glad Andy doesn't do the interiors 'cus I hope NOBOBY ever tries to reproduce the inside of my old M60A3!

 

[Harry Faversham.]

I think the Arnhem figures are great, I'm glad they ballsed up the Polish Paratroops so badly.... means the sniper and the bloke with the Jerry SMG fit in as Brits perfectly! Anorak set to stun now, the scrim scarfs worn by the Paras should be green and brown, not plain green.

​

Then we get on to the 'accurately reproduced to the highest standard' jeeps and guns... wouldn't beg 'em. The jeeps bare no comparison to the modified Airborne variant, the 6pdr. is an insult to a collectors intellygunce!

Here's a K&C 6pdr.

http://shop.national-army-museum.ac...-Market-Garden/Airborne-6lb-Anti-Tank-Gun-Set

Here's a real Airborne 6pdr.

http://www.keithdodds.co.uk/Arnhem/Arnhem02.JPG


It's not 'just a few nuts and bolts', the difference sticks out like a blind cobbler's thumb!

​

 

[Rob]

I think the Arnhem figures are great, I'm glad they ballsed up the Polish Paratroops so badly.... means the sniper and the bloke with the Jerry SMG fit in as Brits perfectly! Anorak set to stun now, the scrim scarfs worn by the Paras should be green and brown, not plain green.

​

Then we get on to the 'accurately reproduced to the highest standard' jeeps and guns... wouldn't beg 'em. The jeeps bare no comparison to the modified Airborne variant, the 6pdr. is an insult to a collectors intellygunce!

Here's a K&C 6pdr.

http://shop.national-army-museum.ac...-Market-Garden/Airborne-6lb-Anti-Tank-Gun-Set

Here's a real Airborne 6pdr.

http://www.keithdodds.co.uk/Arnhem/Arnhem02.JPG


It's not 'just a few nuts and bolts', the difference sticks out like a blind cobbler's thumb!

​

As you seem to have quoted my 'Nuts and bolts' post,I repeat its MY VIEW,I don't remember trying to tell YOU what to collect.

Rob

 

[Harry Faversham.]

I don't remember trying to tell YOU what to collect.

Rob

Wouldn't take any notice if YOU did!

But there's 'nuts and bolts' and then there's taking the urine, the jeeps and 6pdr. do just that... in my 'umble opinion!​

 

[Rob]

Wouldn't take any notice if YOU did!

But there's 'nuts and bolts' and then there's taking the urine, the jeeps and 6pdr. do just that... in my 'umble opinion!​

But maybe not so 'Umble' me thinks

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Well, I see it's back to arguing about accuracy and what it means to each collector. I would like to see more accuracy in the models than we have today, but I also think the models are much better than 5 years ago. Collectors have begun commenting on the accuracy of unit symbols, uniform details and other details on the models and fairly calling for some improvement in research and historical accuracy. Let's not forget, this is an evolving industry and I do believe the manufacturers are listening to our want for more historical accuracy and will provide it.
As it stands now and will do so in the future, if the accuracy or lack of it ruins the enjoyment of the model, don't buy it. The most discerning collectors will have very few models. And the skillful collectors will make their own from plastic kits.

Terry

 

[Rob]

Well, I see it's back to arguing about accuracy and what it means to each collector. I would like to see more accuracy in the models than we have today, but I also think the models are much better than 5 years ago. Collectors have begun commenting on the accuracy of unit symbols, uniform details and other details on the models and fairly calling for some improvement in research and historical accuracy. Let's not forget, this is an evolving industry and I do believe the manufacturers are listening to our want for more historical accuracy and will provide it.
As it stands now and will do so in the future, if the accuracy or lack of it ruins the enjoyment of the model, don't buy it. The most discerning collectors will have very few models. And the skillful collectors will make their own from plastic kits.

Terry

Good post Terry,its all about choice of the collector.We are free to choose what we collect and what we don't,we should also be free to state this on the forum.All opinions are equally valid here.

Rob

 

[Harry Faversham.]

Thinking about it, I am talking daft! To get an authentic looking Arnhem Recce jeep it means stripping the K&C model of nearly all it's highly detailed fixtures and fittings.... I'll get me coat!

​

 

[Rob]

Thinking about it, I am talking daft! To get an authentic looking Arnhem Recce jeep it means stripping the K&C model of nearly all it's highly detailed fixtures and fittings.... I'll get me coat!

​

No stay and have a slice of cake,we do need observational experts on here!

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

Terry beat me to the punch but, first, let's settle down on the issue.

Secondly, there are collectors who are going to be very upset unless a manufacturer makes an exact replica and those who don't really care that much. Then there are those who are a cross of the two, which probably describes most of us.

Does K & C make mistakes? Yes. Do they try not to? Yes. Are they always trying to improve? Yes.

Lastly, this debate sort of reminds me of arguments we've had in the past on my jazz board. There used to be a record company that re-issued many rare records on CD and if they hadn't done it nobody else would. The thing of it was that it wasn't in pristine sound. It sounded fine to many of us (18 bit versus 24 bit) but the real audiophiles weren't happy. They would rather not buy something unless it was in pristine sound. I was just happy that it was available and it made no sense to me to deprive yourself of something that you might never hear (unless you had a turntable and could hunt down the LP).

 

[wwiibuff]

Terry beat me to the punch but, first, let's settle down on the issue.

Secondly, there are collectors who are going to be very upset unless a manufacturer makes an exact replica and those who don't really care that much. Then there are those who are a cross of the two, which probably describes most of us.

Does K & C make mistakes? Yes. Do they try not to? Yes. Are they always trying to improve? Yes.

Lastly, this debate sort of reminds me of arguments we've had in the past on my jazz board. There used to be a record company that re-issued many rare records on CD and if they hadn't done it nobody else would. The thing of it was that it wasn't in pristine sound. It sounded fine to many of us (18 bit versus 24 bit) but the real audiophiles weren't happy. They would rather not buy something unless it was in pristine sound. I was just happy that it was available and it made no sense to me to deprive yourself of something that you might never hear (unless you had a turntable and could hunt down the LP).

Brad,

I agree that many collectors probably fit into the cross of the two types you described. That would include me as well. I can except a minor error here and there and not let it worry me. A major error that would render a vehicle "impossible to exist" I probably wouldn't buy. But I usually don't fact check the unit markings, exact camo pattern, etc. before I buy.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Good post Terry,its all about choice of the collector.We are free to choose what we collect and what we don't,we should also be free to state this on the forum.All opinions are equally valid here.

Rob

Absolutely correct Rob. Of course all should be free to explain why they do and don't and that includes any issues they may have with accuracy I would think. Just because some myself included with respect to some matters, may choose to disregard the imperfections doesn't mean it is unhelpful to point them out. Hopefully we can detach ourselves from our possessions to that extent.

 

[uksubs]

I think the Arnhem figures are great, I'm glad they ballsed up the Polish Paratroops so badly.... means the sniper and the bloke with the Jerry SMG fit in as Brits perfectly! Anorak set to stun now, the scrim scarfs worn by the Paras should be green and brown, not plain green.

​

Then we get on to the 'accurately reproduced to the highest standard' jeeps and guns... wouldn't beg 'em. The jeeps bare no comparison to the modified Airborne variant, the 6pdr. is an insult to a collectors intellygunce!

Here's a K&C 6pdr.

http://shop.national-army-museum.ac...-Market-Garden/Airborne-6lb-Anti-Tank-Gun-Set

Here's a real Airborne 6pdr.

http://www.keithdodds.co.uk/Arnhem/Arnhem02.JPG


It's not 'just a few nuts and bolts', the difference sticks out like a blind cobbler's thumb!

​

Thanks for the great photos
I've been saying for ages that the Rec jeep wrong

 

[Rob]

Absolutely correct Rob. Of course all should be free to explain why they do and don't and that includes any issues they may have with accuracy I would think. Just because some myself included with respect to some matters, may choose to disregard the imperfections doesn't mean it is unhelpful to point them out. Hopefully we can detach ourselves from our possessions to that extent.

Fully agree Bill.I would not mind in the slightest if Harry listed one thousand problems with a set,thats his absolute right.The only reason I posted was that he used my quote and I really did mean it purely for myself.No offence intended to Harry as I was kidding really,but as I say if its nuts and bolts I may let it go,but if its a King Tiger at Dunkirk then no I would not buy it.I guess we all have to draw our own line which we won't cross.

Rob

 

[HAWKEYE]

Boy, i think for the longevity of the hobby that we ought to apply these strictreviews to our own bodies. Just think we could all be in great health and could collect toy soldiers for decades more. As for kc, i wish andy would hire me and pay me a big fat salary to review quality control and insure that everything is accurate. I will be waiting for the call

 

[tdubel]

Brad,

I agree that many collectors probably fit into the cross of the two types you described. That would include me as well. I can except a minor error here and there and not let it worry me. A major error that would render a vehicle "impossible to exist" I probably wouldn't buy. But I usually don't fact check the unit markings, exact camo pattern, etc. before I buy.

Excactly. I feel the same way. One step further, I have been known to buy a product b/c it looks cool regardless of whether existed or not!!

Again, my philosophy, buy what you like, its your collection. And if someone makes a German prototype that only existed on paper, so what, that is what it was, a prototype!

TD

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Boy, i think for the longevity of the hobby that we ought to apply these strictreviews to our own bodies. Just think we could all be in great health and could collect toy soldiers for decades more. As for kc, i wish andy would hire me and pay me a big fat salary to review quality control and insure that everything is accurate. I will be waiting for the call

But make a mistake or come in below perfect You wouldn't last a week Are you sure you really want that job? I wouldn't And as for the big fat salary

Terry

 

[fmethorst]

It's interesting. I don't find the examples of Jagdpanthers at El Alamein and King Tigers and Dunkirk to be a problem at all since in that case the problem is with the description of the vehicle rather than the vehicle itself. For instance BBG009 Elefant is in the Battle of the Bulge range even though they didn't exist there, or Normandy for that matter, yet the piece remains perfectly viable in an Italian or East Front scenario. This has more to do with the way K&C is forced to shoehorn its various releases into ranges rather than a problem with the piece itself.

More of a problem for me would be a RAL7021 "Dunkelgrau" King Tiger since there is no evidence to support such a piece. This goes for unit/tactical markings and numbering as well. Why make something up when using valid markings only enhances a piece. The latest King Tiger release (BBG016) was done quite well in my opinion. It features a late war factory paint scheme and a valid turret number of 313. The numeral is blue with yellow outline which implies 3./s.SS.Pz.Abt.501. We know that unit served in the Bulge battle. What is so difficult about doing that consistently? The beauty of that piece is that tank ended up in Hungary so it is valid for eastern front scenarios as well.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that enhancing the accuracy does nothing to detract from a piece so I am unsure why there is resistance to it.

 

[uksubs]

It's interesting. I don't find the examples of Jagdpanthers at El Alamein and King Tigers and Dunkirk to be a problem at all since in that case the problem is with the description of the vehicle rather than the vehicle itself. For instance BBG009 Elefant is in the Battle of the Bulge range even though they didn't exist there, or Normandy for that matter, yet the piece remains perfectly viable in an Italian or East Front scenario. This has more to do with the way K&C is forced to shoehorn its various releases into ranges rather than a problem with the piece itself.

More of a problem for me would be a RAL7021 "Dunkelgrau" King Tiger since there is no evidence to support such a piece. This goes for unit/tactical markings and numbering as well. Why make something up when using valid markings only enhances a piece. The latest King Tiger release (BBG016) was done quite well in my opinion. It features a late war factory paint scheme and a valid turret number of 313. The numeral is blue with yellow outline which implies 3./s.SS.Pz.Abt.501. We know that unit served in the Bulge battle. What is so difficult about doing that consistently? The beauty of that piece is that tank ended up in Hungary so it is valid for eastern front scenarios as well.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that enhancing the accuracy does nothing to detract from a piece so I am unsure why there is resistance to it.

Great post

 

[Rob]

It's interesting. I don't find the examples of Jagdpanthers at El Alamein and King Tigers and Dunkirk to be a problem at all since in that case the problem is with the description of the vehicle rather than the vehicle itself. For instance BBG009 Elefant is in the Battle of the Bulge range even though they didn't exist there, or Normandy for that matter, yet the piece remains perfectly viable in an Italian or East Front scenario. This has more to do with the way K&C is forced to shoehorn its various releases into ranges rather than a problem with the piece itself.

More of a problem for me would be a RAL7021 "Dunkelgrau" King Tiger since there is no evidence to support such a piece. This goes for unit/tactical markings and numbering as well. Why make something up when using valid markings only enhances a piece. The latest King Tiger release (BBG016) was done quite well in my opinion. It features a late war factory paint scheme and a valid turret number of 313. The numeral is blue with yellow outline which implies 3./s.SS.Pz.Abt.501. We know that unit served in the Bulge battle. What is so difficult about doing that consistently? The beauty of that piece is that tank ended up in Hungary so it is valid for eastern front scenarios as well.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that enhancing the accuracy does nothing to detract from a piece so I am unsure why there is resistance to it.

I don't think theres any resistance to accuracy,we'd all like our Tanks to be 100% accurate,however there will always be something wrong by someones standards.And the absolute insistance that evreything is 100% spot on is fine,but good luck trying to build a collection!!

As for the King Tiger at Dunkirk,the fact remains it did not exist at that time and would be absurd in my view.

Rob