Approaching WW1 100TH ANNIVERSARY (1 Viewer)

[Rob]

Rob,

I don't live in the UK so I have no idea of national or local sentiment but I can't imagine something like this happening in the United States. About the only days the country is shut down is Christmas and Easter.

If thousands want to go to the National Remembrance, what is stopping them from doing so, unless they are somehow involved with working at the stadiums, involved in concessions at the stadiums or transportation to the stadiums.

Also, just because polls show that a majority want it, what about the rights of the minority who do not.

Let's also not forget that in these difficult economic times, businesses (and individuals) would be losing money by closing for a day and, as the saying goes, money talks.

Forget me for butting in, but I think there are two sides to every question.

Brad, I don't think you are butting in at all and welcome your views. I think there is something about the first world war that touches something deep in the British that even WW2 did not. The slaughter and sacrifice in horrendous conditions of the Somme and Passchendaele scarred this nation forever. The haunting image of a generation scythed down like wheat in front of machine guns remains in the soul of this country to this day, the misery, the waste and the horror. There were only fifty villages or towns who did not lose men in that war, just fifty. Now you know how much I love the states and would never insult anyone there, but perhaps these facts are not widely known over there, JUST how deeply this country felt and does to this day about WW1.

I hear what you say about business etc but I'm afraid ( and when I say I'm afraid I'm fully behind this) it looks like the country will come to a halt for this. I can't believe that there are that many who are either so removed, so careless or so stubborn that they would throw up there arms in horror at this, its one Sunday on one occasion Brad, is it REALLY too much to ask for that generation who died in the mud of Flanders? I think not.

Rob

 

[Rob]

Rob...

Your missing the point of what I said with the passion and emotion you have for WWI etc. Its not the fact that I like football at all that I think its wrong to cancel it (I would have said the same if it were rugby or cricket though they are talking of cancelling a variety of events though, why not have a closed national holiday?) and, I have read who said what and why about this. Why this anniversary? is my question and point. why is this so special in terms of remembering them? its not any more important than last year or the year before with sporting and, similar events never being cancelled. If its so important to cancel events for the anniversary of the start of WWI in that it shows the respect of the country in greater terms why never before? Thats what I am against and, it has nothing to do at all with the descendants of people who served in WWI who will show their respect each year and at other times in their own way.

This part of it, an almost forced gratitude on the country, is what is not right. If its going to be done it should have been done many years ago and became part of the countries fabric. You talk of school children etc I know schools that don't even acknowledge the two minute silence when it falls on weekdays. When I was at school we assembled in the main hall no matter what for the two minute silence and, I am not at all old. It does not help many thouisands pay their respects at all really. They can do that any other year again, why this year? Thats why I mentioned things like the last post played each day elsewhere. Thats a continual respect and remembrance not, lets stop some events one year as its the 100th. For me, that shows less respect than if they were allowed to continue alongside these events.
Mitch

If you feel you are forced , that's too sad for words and I feel sorry for you . I'm guessing if it had been a one off Bomber command memorial day you would have felt differently.

Don't worry guys, I'm sure the football will go ahead as normal, so you can all shout and roar and cry at guys kicking a football, hopefully the Church bells won't disturb your viewing.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

Why highlight one point and take it out of the whole context? This is not one of those historical debates on here whjere that is the norm. I clearly said and you seem an intelligent chap that the focus and emphasis that is being placed on this anniversary with what has been mentioned makes it seem that its almost a forced effort. So, you don't have to feel sorry for me at all I am just saying that the over emphasis of the importance of the 100th anniversary makes it seem that way. Many reporters and commentators in papers and elsewhere have asked similar questions as I mentioned.

I just asked why this is more important but, you did not wish to answer. Nobody can respect or remember WWI vetrans etc more because church bells ring or football and other sports that you failed to mention are thought to be cancelled. If people have these things cancelled they are hardly likely to attend WWI ceremonies of remembrance are they? football also holds two minute silences and the players shirts are adourned with the poppy so, that is more respectful than stopping the game. I also would have been the same if it had been a BC remembrance.

Thats what I am saying it seems a forced effort in many ways. I again, seem to have to draw you back to my points that in Belgium etc these are remembered daily its not so here. this anniversary in terms of number is just no more important than last year. Nobody respects the dead of WWI more because the time is 100 years than they did at 99 years.

To commemorate the start of WWI like Brad said does nothing for me why commemorate that day? There will be some interesting and fitting tributes to the great war but, your coming at it from someone with staunch views on it Many don't hold such views and, they should be free to do what they wish on such days. Thats what the freedom you so often speak about was what these people sacrificed their lives for. I would suspect that the football we know you dislike may have more attendees on a given day than people who attend these remembrance events. Thats what is sad nothing else. That however goes back to my points where we have not really as a country instilled what Nov 11th means and what you can't see I am saying in my posts.

Each to their own I suppose and, I will pick and choose the type of events that I watch as will others
Mitch

If you feel you are forced , that's too sad for words and I feel sorry for you mate. I'm guessing if it had been a one off Bomber command memorial day you would have felt differently.

Don't worry guys, I'm sure the football will go ahead as normal, so you can all shout and roar and cry at guys kicking a football, hopefully the Church bells won't disturb your viewing.

Rob

 

[Rob]

I didn't answer your post fully because I want this to end now. I started a thread re the 100th anniversary that I know many are looking forward too, now you've made your point, so I'm asking you politely to not continue to post on a subject you are clearly not interested in, you won't be remembering that's fine. So please move on and let anyone who wants to talk about this do so in peace. As I say I'm asking politely but I do want to continue the thread in the vein I intended. Cheers

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

Yes, I agree, let's move on.

Rob, you may have posted this but is there a commission or group that will be coordinating activities and, if so, have they announced what they will be doing. What will the Imperial War Museum be doing or is that all too early to know?

Do you know if other countries such as France, Belgium, Germany, etc. are planning commmmorations/remembrance activities.

Brad

 

[thebritfarmer]

Yes lets leave it be guys, Mitch we understand you don't agree but why does it have to be a full on debate, say you don't agree and just move on.

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

Where have I stated I was not interested? I am interested enough to have not missed a service on the BBC since I was a child. I will post, with respect, where I wish. You posed a question/comment and I replied. So, what you seem to be saying is that unless its all about fervant support for the shutdown of the country for one day then it cannot be stated or discussed and, its disrespectful to the war dead? well, thats your opinion.

Thats really supporting the freedom that millions died for. I looked at the poll on yougov and 1700 people were asked about these events the majority agreed that the event should be supported but, they were split whether the country should be shutdown because of it. I just happen to be in the camp that disagrees that the country should lockdown. If we can't have a discussion where we state the different views we may as well have lost the war
Mitch

I didn't answer your post fully because I want this to end now. I started a thread re the 100th anniversary that I know many are looking forward too, now you've made your point, so I'm asking you politely to not continue to post on a subject you are clearly not interested in, you won't be remembering that's fine. So please move on and let anyone who wants to talk about this do so in peace. As I say I'm asking politely but I do want to continue the thread in the vein I intended. Cheers

Rob

 

[Rob]

Yes, I agree, let's move on.

Rob, you may have posted this but is there a commission or group that will be coordinating activities and, if so, have they announced what they will be doing. What will the Imperial War Museum be doing or is that all too early to know?

Do you know if other countries such as France, Belgium, Germany, etc. are planning commmmorations/remembrance activities.

Brad

Brad, the answer is YES YES AND YES!:wink2: Its going to be huge my friend, France,Belgium, (not sure about Germany)Australia and I imagine all the other Commonwealth countries involved will be remembering in services across the globe from 2012 to 2014. The IWM will close at Christmas for the start of a multi million pound refurb that will open in time for the outbreak anniversary , the new WW1 galleries are going to be superb, we got a preview of how they will look a few weeks back and its very exciting indeed. The museum will be the nations hub for the events and memorials 2012-14. France has recently built a huge new ww1 museum near Paris and the Cloth Hall museum in Ypres has just reopened after its major refit. Across the Western front new memorials are going up whilst trenches and dugouts will be open to the public. The plans are still at an early stage but will be fleshed out in the next twelve months. Apparently there is a road at the port of Folkestone in Kent where the majority off Tommies marched down to sail for France, many of whom never returned, there are plans to turn this road into some sort of memorial as well. There is also going to be a huge new memorial on the cliffs looking out to sea that will bare the name of every serviceman and woman and every civilian who died in WW1 and WW2.

Overall Brad in a years time this country will embark on a period of remembering and building that will ensure both conflicts will not pass out of memory, as updates come in I'll keep you all posted.{sm0}

I'll be crossing the Channel to attend/visit some of these events and new builds in France and Belgium, you can bet your dinner on me posting some pics mate:wink2:

Rob

 

[Rob]

Brad, this may be of interest
http://www.1914.org/

http://www.britishfuture.org/

 

[UKReb]

Fine thread Rob and as we both have traversed those poignant WWI European fields many times, like you it has never failed to move me. In today's world of PC it was always going to be controversial whether the commemoration was going to take place in 2014 or in 2018 or at any other time come to that. I too am no great supporter of our overpaid prima donna football celebrities, however, there is a strong historical connection with the main subject matter.

Loos 1915 when the London Irish Rifles advanced one of the boys- after hiding it from his RSM- kicked a football across no-man's land and the regiment went hell for leather after it. Most of those lads were just young boys leaving their towns and villages of Britain for the very first time in their lives all excited on being part of a "great adventure" completely unaware of the carnage and horror that faced them. It is incidents such as this one (and the East Surrey Regiment at the Somme who also kicked a football toward the German lines) that makes one reflect and remember that they were just boys doing what boys did at home- play football in their streets and back-yards.

God Bless Them All

Bob

 

[Rob]

Fine thread Rob and as we both have traversed those poignant WWI European fields many times, like you it has never failed to move me. In today's world of PC it was always going to be controversial whether the commemoration was going to take place in 2014 or in 2018 or at any other time come to that. I too am no great supporter of our overpaid prima donna football celebrities, however, there is a strong historical connection with the main subject matter.

Loos 1915 when the London Irish Rifles advanced one of the boys- after hiding it from his RSM- kicked a football across no-man's land and the regiment went hell for leather after it. Most of those lads were just young boys leaving their towns and villages of Britain for the very first time in their lives all excited on being part of a "great adventure" completely unaware of the carnage and horror that faced them. It is incidents such as this one (and the East Surrey Regiment at the Somme who also kicked a football toward the German lines) that makes one reflect and remember that they were just boys doing what boys did at home- play football in their streets and back-yards.

God Bless Them All

Bob

Well said mate, as always you are spot on. Yes I've seen the football the Surrey's kicked forward as they went over the top, and its hard to imagine some of today's players having the stones to do that!{eek3}

You are quite right about how moving the sites on the Western front are, for me the Sunken Lane on the Somme is just so sad , eery and heartbreaking to be honest, much like another sunken lane the Rebs occupied:wink2: . Its where you can truly walk in the footsteps of heroes.

Looking forward to a chat and a drink or two in December mate, maybe a Tequila eh?:wink2:^&grin

Rob

 

[Currahee Chris]

Brad, I don't think you are butting in at all and welcome your views. I think there is something about the first world war that touches something deep in the British that even WW2 did not. The slaughter and sacrifice in horrendous conditions of the Somme and Passchendaele scarred this nation forever. The haunting image of a generation scythed down like wheat in front of machine guns remains in the soul of this country to this day, the misery, the waste and the horror. There were only fifty villages or towns who did not lose men in that war, just fifty. Now you know how much I love the states and would never insult anyone there, but perhaps these facts are not widely known over there, JUST how deeply this country felt and does to this day about WW1.

I hear what you say about business etc but I'm afraid ( and when I say I'm afraid I'm fully behind this) it looks like the country will come to a halt for this. I can't believe that there are that many who are either so removed, so careless or so stubborn that they would throw up there arms in horror at this, its one Sunday on one occasion Brad, is it REALLY too much to ask for that generation who died in the mud of Flanders? I think not.

Rob

This is a really really good post bud!! I often think associate WW1 with scores of Brits dressed in muddy drab uniforms going over the top. Im a pretty daring dude and would gladly tell you how much I would put on the line for my nation but at the end of the day, springing over the top and charging headfirst into roaring MG fire would probably have exceeded my love of mother liberty. All those troopers have my unending respect for doing something that I know I dont believe I would have had the iron to do myself.

@Al (Lancer)- I agree with what you are saying, which is sad.I believe there will no doubt be plenty of WW1 commemerations at the War College in Carlisle. The modern US Army came to age during that period. From a military science point of view, WW1 was a watershed moment.

I have a black and white picture of my Great Grandfather Gino Carelli circa 1918 sitting behind a .30cal with his hobnail boots. All 5' 2" of him. I show my kids often so that they dont forget who he was and what he did. He passed away a very happy 92 years of age back in 1989. Just because all the veterans of that conflict have passed on, there are legions of us who do remember them as they were following the war.

They were heroes every man to the core. Many of the "lessons learned" would go on to shape US Military policy and did a lot towards keeping future generations of troopers from loosing their lives needlessly. We as parents/grand parents need to teach our kids that these guys did what was expected of them and they did it to the best of their ability.

 

[Poppo]

Yes, I agree, let's move on.

Rob, you may have posted this but is there a commission or group that will be coordinating activities and, if so, have they announced what they will be doing. What will the Imperial War Museum be doing or is that all too early to know?

Do you know if other countries such as France, Belgium, Germany, etc. are planning commmmorations/remembrance activities.

Brad

Germany? Well, I don' t think a country that lost a war commemorates or remembers it....Eventually Italy which was one of the winners of ww1

 

[Jack]

The commemorations do not all have to be huge affairs. I have driven the Western Front a few times, usually basing myself mainly on the outskirts of Amiens. The College I was employed at for over a decade lost 53 Old Boys in France and Belgium. I visited each of the graves or memorials in the case of the missing and left a laminated plaque with the school badge, a poppy and the verse “Greater Love hath no man…” all under the heading ‘A School Remembers’. It was about trying to remember the men as individuals rather than a generic grouping like the ‘lost generation’. I found it very moving, particularly having been brought up on a diet of ‘the Brits sent the colonials out to die in their place’. That lie does not last 5 seconds at places like Tyne Cot, Ypres or Thiepval.

 

[Rob]

The commemorations do not all have to be huge affairs. I have driven the Western Front a few times, usually basing myself mainly on the outskirts of Amiens. The College I was employed at for over a decade lost 53 Old Boys in France and Belgium. I visited each of the graves or memorials in the case of the missing and left a laminated plaque with the school badge, a poppy and the verse “Greater Love hath no man…” all under the heading ‘A School Remembers’. It was about trying to remember the men as individuals rather than a generic grouping like the ‘lost generation’. I found it very moving, particularly having been brought up on a diet of ‘the Brits sent the colonials out to die in their place’. That lie does not last 5 seconds at places like Tyne Cot, Ypres or Thiepval.

Very much agree on all points Jack. There are many different ways of remembering whether they be on a national scale or if you are stood beneath the trees alone in Sanctuary Wood outside Ypres. I try and visit some of the smaller cemeteries as well as the larger as some of these smaller ones are tucked away and get few visitors. It is a wonderful tribute to the skill and dedication of the Commonwealth War grave gardeners that the cemeteries are kept in such wonderful condition all year round, whether they be the big well visited cemeteries all those that barely see any.

Yes I'm afraid there are many myths about WW1 including the Brits sending the colonials off to die in their place, we even had one guy on here who believed all the British graves on the Somme were a propaganda trick, but then again there are people who believe the Holocaust didn't happen or try and play it down so go figure!. The wonderful author Lyn Mcdonald once told me that the other myth claiming that the allied soldiers were all compliant sheep that went off to their deaths just because they were told to , was total rubbish. She told me that the veterans she spoke to for her books were proud to fight for their country and believed in what they were about to undertake.

2014 will be a big anniversary that I'm looking forward to taking in part in, but as usual I'll be making my own trips to the Western front as personally I think sometimes the coach parties kill the atmos on the battlefield somewhat. I also wonder if you get your moneys worth with these groups. I once saw a guide in Deville wood sit down with his newspaper and tell the group to walk up and down the wood and meet back at the coach in an hour! Not much guiding involved there!

Thanks for your post Jack, always good to get your view.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Good points made by posters about the importance to the tommy in the trench and, probably the german on the other side of football to them. The iconic moments in the war (above all else) were when opposing sides played the national game with each other in an act of compassion and friendship to the so-called enemy.Perhaps the future discussions that will take place on how the events will be ran and what will happen etc by those who will decide! will take into consideration the love of the game for the soldiers and the civillians of that time.

Having just seen Dutch football teams pay respect to Arnhem veterans before and during and after a game of football they could incorporate such a tribute to the WWI soldiers across europe.
Mitch

 

[Rob]

For my fellow WW1 students and Battlefield visitors here are three websites that may be of interest. The new French museum and the newly refurbished museum in Ypres and also the Australian War memorial. As the Imperial War Museum is to be the hub of British remembrance , I imagine these three will be at the heart of their country's memorials

http://www.museedelagrandeguerre.eu/en

http://www.inflandersfields.be/en

http://www.awm.gov.au/

And here is the official centenary website, explaining the thinking behind this forthcoming four year long remembrance;
http://www.1914.org/centenary/
Rob

 

[Rob]

Germany? Well, I don' t think a country that lost a war commemorates or remembers it....Eventually Italy which was one of the winners of ww1

Poppo, I understand what you're saying and I can imagine if there are remembrance events in Germany they will be very low key.

This is a really really good post bud!! I often think associate WW1 with scores of Brits dressed in muddy drab uniforms going over the top. Im a pretty daring dude and would gladly tell you how much I would put on the line for my nation but at the end of the day, springing over the top and charging headfirst into roaring MG fire would probably have exceeded my love of mother liberty. All those troopers have my unending respect for doing something that I know I dont believe I would have had the iron to do myself.

@Al (Lancer)- I agree with what you are saying, which is sad.I believe there will no doubt be plenty of WW1 commemerations at the War College in Carlisle. The modern US Army came to age during that period. From a military science point of view, WW1 was a watershed moment.

I have a black and white picture of my Great Grandfather Gino Carelli circa 1918 sitting behind a .30cal with his hobnail boots. All 5' 2" of him. I show my kids often so that they dont forget who he was and what he did. He passed away a very happy 92 years of age back in 1989. Just because all the veterans of that conflict have passed on, there are legions of us who do remember them as they were following the war.

They were heroes every man to the core. Many of the "lessons learned" would go on to shape US Military policy and did a lot towards keeping future generations of troopers from loosing their lives needlessly. We as parents/grand parents need to teach our kids that these guys did what was expected of them and they did it to the best of their ability.

Well said Chris {bravo}}

Rob

 

[Jack]

Very much agree on all points Jack. There are many different ways of remembering whether they be on a national scale or if you are stood beneath the trees alone in Sanctuary Wood outside Ypres. I try and visit some of the smaller cemeteries as well as the larger as some of these smaller ones are tucked away and get few visitors. It is a wonderful tribute to the skill and dedication of the Commonwealth War grave gardeners that the cemeteries are kept in such wonderful condition all year round, whether they be the big well visited cemeteries all those that barely see any.

Yes I'm afraid there are many myths about WW1 including the Brits sending the colonials off to die in their place, we even had one guy on here who believed all the British graves on the Somme were a propaganda trick, but then again there are people who believe the Holocaust didn't happen or try and play it down so go figure!. The wonderful author Lyn Mcdonald once told me that the other myth claiming that the allied soldiers were all compliant sheep that went off to their deaths just because they were told to , was total rubbish. She told me that the veterans she spoke to for her books were proud to fight for their country and believed in what they were about to undertake.

2014 will be a big anniversary that I'm looking forward to taking in part in, but as usual I'll be making my own trips to the Western front as personally I think sometimes the coach parties kill the atmos on the battlefield somewhat. I also wonder if you get your moneys worth with these groups. I once saw a guide in Deville wood sit down with his newspaper and tell the group to walk up and down the wood and meet back at the coach in an hour! Not much guiding involved there!

Thanks for your post Jack, always good to get your view.

Rob

You should keep a few days free in September/October next year as a few of us are headed over to do a couple of weeks on the Western Front. I have been a few times, but Wayne and Phil are first timers. Wayne has a couple of relatives buried in France and Belgium so he is keen to do the pilgrimage. One battlefield that doesn't get the publicity here in Australia is Vimy Ridge. I have a big photograph of the statue - which I think is the 'Spirit of Canada - blown up and framed. I used to say no one does commemorations as well as the Brits but in this instance I think the Canadians have run them very close. Just a magnificent memorial. Thank God that most of the WW1 memorials are classically inspired. Even the wording is spot on - 'Their name liveth for evermore'. Ecclesiasticus nailed it. We may live in a secular age but Biblical language still does the job. Beaumont Hamel is also a bit of a favourite if one can use that word in this context. Delville Wood was also moving, although for Australians it is Villers Bretoneux that is our sacred spot. If I can digress, the museum in the village used to be run by this most beautuful young French woman although I have not been there since 2001. I have often wondered whether she is still there.

Anyway, next year on the Western Front if the garden can spare you!

 

[waynepoo]

My Grandfather his brother and two uncles on my mothers side are named or buried on the Western Front to say that I'm keen to visit is an understatment if there ever was one, the opportunity has been offered me to go so it is a nobrainer that I am going. To me it will be a pilgrimage to be able stand before the grave or memorial and honour these men of my family who gave their lives in the Great War, I am really looking forward to the trip and also to meeting the lovely French girl in Villers Bretoneux that Jack has mentioned often....:wink2:
Wayne.