Armour in North Africa (1 Viewer)

I don't doubt that the Desert is poopular. My argument is about the request for American troops which I feel will not be very popular. Whne people talk about the war in the desert what springs to mind is Tobruk and El Alamein not the Torch Landings. A British Sherman would proably sell well, but why can you still get the D-Day Churchill and Stag etc but not the German stuff. It is one of the imponderables
 
Oz, as always some really good points. I think the Italian campaign should have some appeal as there were something like 25 allied nationalities deployed including many Commonweath countries - from 1943 right up until the end of the war.

I personally would like to see many more Poles as their heroic sacrifice at Casino, Falaise pocket and many other battles should be fully recognised.

Italy, apart from partisans and fine Italian uniforms would also allow for German paratroopers!!!!!!!:D And about 50 Ferdinands were also deployed there (with machine guns) after Kursk. Fancy that:)

I also think that the desert is a good area, definately on the forum - but what about the 'none forum members' or 'lurkers' on the forum (no disrespect) - what do they think?

See Louis' collection - and imagine the desert stuff revisited......I would certainly buy it (Chancellor allowing). The Brits definately need more armour and two, six and seventeen pounder AT guns. Its just not fair (throws teddy stamps foot!):mad:
 
damian said:
Were there any British airborne units at D Day with the Americans?
Click to expand...

Damian

6th Airborne dropped at the Eastern end around Ranville to secure the flank - the Germans had flooded much of the Western area - some interesting battles for bridges (and some VCs earned). Fought hard, including with the reformed 21st panzer div (previously with Rommel in the desert and completely destroyed there) using much old captured and modified French gear like the SP gun Andy made last year. Hope you can make out the parachute symbol on the map (from a plaque in a war cemetary in the area).

IMG_6188_1red.jpg

The Merville Battery looked right along the Sword invasion beaches with 4 bunkers I think containing a captured 100mm Skoda gun each - so was the Eastern equivalent of batteries like that at Point du Hoc in the west (if it had it's guns). Interesting the way it changed hands in the battle.

IMG_6224red.jpg
 
damian said:
I don't doubt that the Desert is poopular. My argument is about the request for American troops which I feel will not be very popular. Whne people talk about the war in the desert what springs to mind is Tobruk and El Alamein not the Torch Landings. A British Sherman would proably sell well, but why can you still get the D-Day Churchill and Stag etc but not the German stuff. It is one of the imponderables
Click to expand...

I understand your argument that American desert troops would not be very popular in the UK or South Africa but I suspect they would generate some interest in the US. But would American customers be happy with new US desert troops appearing under the current allied 8th Army banner :) I would think not, so I guess we won't see any for some time if ever.

Collectors world wide are very parochial and the British armor just isn't as popular outside of the UK and perhaps where you live. American armor is the most popular in the US but globally the German armor is the most popular. The same applies to aircraft models on a global scale. British planes are more popular in the UK than German WWII aircraft, but globally the German planes are more popular. That's just the way these things work.
 
panda1gen said:
Oz, as always some really good points. I think the Italian campaign should have some appeal as there were something like 25 allied nationalities deployed including many Commonweath countries - from 1943 right up until the end of the war.

I personally would like to see many more Poles as their heroic sacrifice at Casino, Falaise pocket and many other battles should be fully recognised.

Italy, apart from partisans and fine Italian uniforms would also allow for German paratroopers!!!!!!!:D And about 50 Ferdinands were also deployed there (with machine guns) after Kursk. Fancy that:)

I also think that the desert is a good area, definately on the forum - but what about the 'none forum members' or 'lurkers' on the forum (no disrespect) - what do they think?

See Louis' collection - and imagine the desert stuff revisited......I would certainly buy it (Chancellor allowing). The Brits definately need more armour and two, six and seventeen pounder AT guns. Its just not fair (throws teddy stamps foot!):mad:
Click to expand...

I agree panda. A Ferdinand, or Elephant as I understand they were called with extra armor and mg, would be terrific.
 
I agree with Oz on several ponits here,i think he has his finger on the pulse so to speak.A Desert Sherman would be very popular with collectors.I for one will be very interested if HB make one of these.I also agree that a new Stug with the excellant new tracks would be most welcome.This is one of my fave armoured vehilces in all its theatres of op.An Elephant or Ferdinand would be good too.I have been wondering if this is what NMA are about to announce as their next release.

Rob
 
German tanks are just how can I describe it except for "SEXY". Just like SS camo. If you follow the toy soldier world you would think that there were no Wermachy units at D Day.
 
Again true,there is something that appeals about German arms and armour,despite them belonging to the most hated regime in history!.

Rob
 
Gentlemen

I guess it is up to me to hold up the American end of this conversation. I know you (outside the US) think that North Africa is a total British/Commonwealt Affair - but, "us" Americans do a have a little bit of a picture on that. Operation Torch and the final defeat of the Germans in North Africa was the first entry of American Troops in WWII - so "we" Americans do feel we took part. And since - AMERICA is the largest country market for King and Country Products - I think it has a very good chance for commerical success.

I plead this case to Andy and he wasn't interested. Ok - his company, his rules. But, to say - like Andy has done - "we" Americans can just use DDAY Figures is very wrong. Only two sets allow can be used for a NA scene - DD33 - Attacking (which only guy out of 4 is shooting?) and DD43 (Inf. Patrol) - JUST TWO SETS TOTAL - the rest of the fiugre sets have the men on the beach with their pants "WET" to knee high. Now I have been to North Africa and I still dont recall alot of water laying around.

So - Yes, I believe I do have a good point about the need for US Troops in early 1940's gear without water stains on their pants.

I am not sure why this has to be a competition either - I have read "why cant it just be british troops" or "this was a british fight" - I think we ALL PARTICIPATED IN THE OPERATIONS in North Africa. So, what is this exclusion thing? Whats wrong with making a representation of them all ?

I believe that a DESERT SHERMAN is a must. And it would sell.

But, I am not going to keep beating a dead horse on the Americans in NA - Andy isnt going to do it and thats that. But, maybe we could get some positive response from an Italian Campaign range? It was a large part of WWII - wasnt it?

What worries me there are some comments that are being made that are sounding - anti-american - I know that "we" Americans appreciate that World War II was MORE than just an American Affiar. I would hope most of you would appreciate the US involvement.

Ron
 
Capitolron said:
Gentlemen

I guess it is up to me to hold up the American end of this conversation. I know you (outside the US) think that North Africa is a total British/Commonwealt Affair - but, "us" Americans do a have a little bit of a picture on that. Operation Torch and the final defeat of the Germans in North Africa was the first entry of American Troops in WWII - so "we" Americans do feel we took part. And since - AMERICA is the largest country market for King and Country Products - I think it has a very good chance for commerical success.

I plead this case to Andy and he wasn't interested. Ok - his company, his rules. But, to say - like Andy has done - "we" Americans can just use DDAY Figures is very wrong. Only two sets allow can be used for a NA scene - DD33 - Attacking (which only guy out of 4 is shooting?) and DD43 (Inf. Patrol) - JUST TWO SETS TOTAL - the rest of the fiugre sets have the men on the beach with their pants "WET" to knee high. Now I have been to North Africa and I still dont recall alot of water laying around.

So - Yes, I believe I do have a good point about the need for US Troops in early 1940's gear without water stains on their pants.

I am not sure why this has to be a competition either - I have read "why cant it just be british troops" or "this was a british fight" - I think we ALL PARTICIPATED IN THE OPERATIONS in North Africa. So, what is this exclusion thing? Whats wrong with making a representation of them all ?

I believe that a DESERT SHERMAN is a must. And it would sell.

But, I am not going to keep beating a dead horse on the Americans in NA - Andy isnt going to do it and thats that. But, maybe we could get some positive response from an Italian Campaign range? It was a large part of WWII - wasnt it?

What worries me there are some comments that are being made that are sounding - anti-american - I know that "we" Americans appreciate that World War II was MORE than just an American Affiar. I would hope most of you would appreciate the US involvement.

Ron
Click to expand...

Ron:

I have to agree with you. However first, let’s agree on one thing first, when most people think of the North Africa campaign it’s the Brits, Germans and Italians forces they think about. Yes, the Americans, Commonwealth troops and even the French (both sides) and other allied troops fought too.

When people think of Battle of the Bulge, it’s strictly the USA and German and not much is thought of the Brits involvement. This is what happens when most people (at least in the US) get their History lesson from the cinema rather from a book or from classes.

Carlos
 
Ron,

Your Idea of US troops (and their machines) fighting in North Africa is a great idea for the following reasons:

• WWII is still biggest market segment in our hobby
• Over 50% of collectors are still Americans, most of the rest are Europeans
• Normandy is great but crowed with releases and sales may some day stagnate
• North Africa and frankly the Sicilian, Italian and even Southern French campaigns are a perfect tandem depicting Allied and German evolution of strategy, weapons, vehicles and uniforms prior to the Normandy campaign
• It still features the most collectibles forces (Germans, USA, and British) sought after in WWII

This would appeal to me and most Americans I suspect that collect WWII and frankly let’s not forget our British allies who made it possible for Patton to win acclaim in Sicily. However, that movie was great wasn't it? I would happily collect those releases in these campaigns as well.

Carlos
 
Carlos & Ron,

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you gentlemen on this issue. Frankly, with the U.S. uniforms changing so little over the course of North Africa through D-Day, a bunch of only slightly different G.I.'s just don't appeal to my pocket book. There is a ton of more interesting and different subjects that Andy can do which would appeal to the same core audience of Americans and Brits. Between the many Allied vehicles yet to be done (including bulldozer tanks, D-Day funnies, tank recovery vehicles, British Troop Transport Lorries, various British Tanks like the Cromwell, late war American Tanks like the Chaffee (long overdue for an updated re-release) and Pershing), not to mention all of the 8th & 9th Airforce and RAF pilots, groundcrew and related vehicles, I would put more only slightly different G.I.'s way down the list, which is exactly what Andy has done.

If you want to do North Arica, Sicily and Italy, grab some D-Day G.I.'s that don't have the helmet netting or the later war boots, add some Brits from North Africa and D-Day ranges, and put them up against the abundance of Germans from all the various ranges. There are already Patton and Montgomery figures, enough 82nd Airborne to do Sicily twice over, and even those Audy Murphy 3rd Infantry figures if you want to depict Italy as well as the invasion of Southern France.
 
Capitolron said:
Gentlemen

I guess it is up to me to hold up the American end of this conversation. I know you (outside the US) think that North Africa is a total British/Commonwealt Affair - but, "us" Americans do a have a little bit of a picture on that. Operation Torch and the final defeat of the Germans in North Africa was the first entry of American Troops in WWII - so "we" Americans do feel we took part. And since - AMERICA is the largest country market for King and Country Products - I think it has a very good chance for commerical success.

I plead this case to Andy and he wasn't interested. Ok - his company, his rules. But, to say - like Andy has done - "we" Americans can just use DDAY Figures is very wrong. Only two sets allow can be used for a NA scene - DD33 - Attacking (which only guy out of 4 is shooting?) and DD43 (Inf. Patrol) - JUST TWO SETS TOTAL - the rest of the fiugre sets have the men on the beach with their pants "WET" to knee high. Now I have been to North Africa and I still dont recall alot of water laying around.

So - Yes, I believe I do have a good point about the need for US Troops in early 1940's gear without water stains on their pants.

I am not sure why this has to be a competition either - I have read "why cant it just be british troops" or "this was a british fight" - I think we ALL PARTICIPATED IN THE OPERATIONS in North Africa. So, what is this exclusion thing? Whats wrong with making a representation of them all ?

I believe that a DESERT SHERMAN is a must. And it would sell.

But, I am not going to keep beating a dead horse on the Americans in NA - Andy isnt going to do it and thats that. But, maybe we could get some positive response from an Italian Campaign range? It was a large part of WWII - wasnt it?

What worries me there are some comments that are being made that are sounding - anti-american - I know that "we" Americans appreciate that World War II was MORE than just an American Affiar. I would hope most of you would appreciate the US involvement.

Ron
Click to expand...

Oh come on mate lighten up!.No one on here is 'Anti American'.(at least i don't think so)

I think Ron may be frustrated that there aren't more people supporting his point of view.Of course we need to seperate battles/campaigns here.Whilst the US played no role of course at Alamein, and North Africa to a large extent was a British affair they did of course play a large part in Operation Torch.I can see the desire for the US in NA,i just don't think its a runner.

But just because a lot of Europeans don't want the US in NA it doesn't mean their anti american.I don't hear many good folk of the US calling for Brits at the Bulge?.So if its just the US at the Bulge is it SO unfair its just the Brits in NA?.Its all about perspective.I remember many Brits complaining that Private Ryan didn't have enough Brits in it!,we weren't even on Omaha!!!!

To Be fair Ron there are plenty of US troops,D Day,Bulge,Pacific.And i can understand NA fans wanting it a more British theme.Also we don't know whats up Andys sleeve next,there may be Americans in another theatre just round the corner.We should remember when all is said and done their just toy soldiers.

Just my tuppence worth.

Rob
 
Louis Badolato said:
Carlos & Ron,

If you want to do North Arica, Sicily and Italy, grab some D-Day G.I.'s that don't have the helmet netting or the later war boots, add some Brits from North Africa and D-Day ranges, and put them up against the abundance of Germans from all the various ranges. There are already Patton and Montgomery figures, enough 82nd Airborne to do Sicily twice over, and even those Audy Murphy 3rd Infantry figures if you want to depict Italy as well as the invasion of Southern France.
Click to expand...

Louis - Did you read my post carefully?

Like I said there are only TWO sets which you have described that could be used in North Africa - DD33 and DD43 - the rest of the americans are either in WINTER gear or wading through water. Also to further my point bith of the sets that I just mentioned are now RETIRED !

So making a couple of early WWII American Soldiers sets - I would not be that unreasonible - IMO.

Ron
 
Ron,just refresh my memory DD43/44,what figures are they?

Rob
 
Rob

What I still dont understand ..... why does it have to be either or ? Why not both? I think that Andy should make a set or two of British in BB series - why not?? If it would sell - why not?

I would encourage you to re-read the past posts and through my American eyes and see the underline thought there. I have never understood why we Americans dont get the credit of what we did before our troops arrived in North Africa and after. I am not upset over this snub by others - but it is there.

And I am not overly upset by these posts either - but call a spade a spade.

All I am saying for a successful line like North Africa - I would think that Amercan Troops would be just as successful. Like Carlos says - we are 50% of the total world market. AND all this coming from a guy who loves NAPOLEONICS! :p - and no I am not asking for American Troops in that conflict :D :rolleyes:

Ron
 
So we all agree then. We need to break the Gustav line. Lets start a campaiagn for that with a facade of Monte Cassino to display all the new Falschirmjager sets. Perhaps we rename this thread?
 
Ron,I do see your point mate.Now i think about it if Andy hadn't made any Brits for D Day i'd be upset.And of course the US is a huge share of the market.Did Andy give any reason for not making NA US at the symposium?.I can only imagine its the uniform being pretty much the same.I do also realise the American effort in NA is often overlooked.If we don't get the GI's in NA maybe we will one day get them in Italy.Maybe struggling in winter gear,which would look a lot different to Normandy.

But hey if you start a campaign i'll climb on board for a fellow treefrogger!

Rob
 
Rob said:
Ron,just refresh my memory DD43/44,what figures are they?

Rob
Click to expand...

Rob

DD43 is the Infantry Patrol - which can go with a NA scene (but, boring...:rolleyes: ) and YES, you are right - I forgot the DD44 - which are the Four GI Tank Riders - but, three out of the four have the wrong helmut - just like the DD33 and 43.

Ron
 
Chaps
Go and look at the Dragon 1:6 thread and you will see the underlying problem. The German uniforms and equipment just look so dam cool. The Allied stuff is just a little bit drab. That is why my German stuff always outnumbers the ALllied stuff in my collection. I think in the latest Collector Andy said that Hugo Boss designed the SS uniform. It just goes to show. I suppose the Allied's got a sub-committee to design the uniform. The exception is the British paras with their Dennison coats. Now those look cool.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2024 XenForo Ltd.
Back
Top