Aust Sport Drug Scandal ? (1 Viewer)

T

TomB

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Our friend across the ditch was shocked by the Govts "BIG Announcement" of the drug scandal in the Rugby and Aussie Rules.....so were most Aussies...not because there were drugs...but because the Govt was so on top of it and had so much proof etc......well where is it ?....what info that has been released sure aint inspirational .....the bad guys now know the score...what does the Govt expect them to do ...come clean and dob everyone in? The name of Aussie Sport has been blackened the world over...even on a Toy Soldier Site......They should put up or shut up..... and apologize for dragging Aussie Sporties into disrepute........TomB
 
Tom,

The intelligence / information the ACCC has is just that. If they had any evidence surely they would have arrested somebody by now. The big press conference was impressive but so far seems over blown and would have "blown" many possible investigative leads as people now know this is being looked at.

I think only one 2nd grade NRL player has tested positive to something. Some on the radio suggesting the Govt wanted a big distraction.

What is interesting is that no State Police appear to be investigating anything despite all the talk about organised crime etc. Not sure about Federal Police. In any event if this was a serious matter with so many multiple teams across multiple states where is the announcement about a Police Task Force to investigate it ? Deloittes were the ones who went to the Sydney NRL teams the day after the press conference and I was not aware they are a law enforcement agency. The mention of the Cowboys for example was because one of their players had joined them from one of the Sydney teams.

Even the main Dr named is talking about suing for defamation. Surely they have enough to arrest him for something or is it trial by newspaper.

All seems to have come out earlier than it should have. Should have at least time the announcement to co-incide with the arrest of somebody (ie. the Essendon Dr if it has been that apparent).

Brett
 
That may be so but, surely, your not suggesting that aussie athletes and sports people are immune from drug taking?? I would expect there is as much going on as with other countries. You also suggest that the government has decided to cause scandal for its sports to get attention drawn away from their issues?? I find that really hard to believe when problems like this happen for the US and UK we just invade someone or, blame it all on the poor!!rather than pick on our own sadly ''worshipped'' athletes!!!LOL We shall see what transpires over the coming weeks. I am never impressed when I hear people screaming that they have been either defamed or libelled as many who claim innocence are very guilty but, know how to obfuscate matters
Mitch

Our friend across the ditch was shocked by the Govts "BIG Announcement" of the drug scandal in the Rugby and Aussie Rules.....so were most Aussies...not because there were drugs...but because the Govt was so on top of it and had so much proof etc......well where is it ?....what info that has been released sure aint inspirational .....the bad guys now know the score...what does the Govt expect them to do ...come clean and dob everyone in? The name of Aussie Sport has been blackened the world over...even on a Toy Soldier Site......They should put up or shut up..... and apologize for dragging Aussie Sporties into disrepute........TomB
 
That may be so but, surely, your not suggesting that aussie athletes and sports people are immune from drug taking?? I would expect there is as much going on as with other countries. You also suggest that the government has decided to cause scandal for its sports to get attention drawn away from their issues?? I find that really hard to believe when problems like this happen for the US and UK we just invade someone or, blame it all on the poor!!rather than pick on our own sadly ''worshipped'' athletes!!!LOL We shall see what transpires over the coming weeks. I am never impressed when I hear people screaming that they have been either defamed or libelled as many who claim innocence are very guilty but, know how to obfuscate matters
Mitch

Mitch,
I dont think anybody is suggesting Aussie athletes/sport etc are or is immune from drug taking. I think there have been a couple of former cyclists who had to step down from admin positions due to previous drug use a few years back.

As I mentioned in my post the way this has been handled seems strange. The way it has been done has tainted many teams and sports but so far very little in the way of evidence has been produced. Even if it is coming it seems a long way off as Police dont seem to be investigating anything so far.

The inquiry involving secret hearings and phone taps has apparently been going on for a year. As I said I would expect even some minor arrests on morning of the big announcement (like the team Dr (Sports scientist) getting all the publicity, a bikie with some drugs, anything).

The press conference had the heads of Cricket, Soccer, League, Rugby and Aussie Rules present but so far nothing has surfaced to implicate Soccer, Cricket and Rugby.

However at the risk of getting into a political discussion I think it would be fair to say the current Govt would be most happy to have this major distraction fighting over the front pages and TV News with other recent events (PM sent with examples).

Regards
Brett
 
That may be so but, surely, your not suggesting that aussie athletes and sports people are immune from drug taking?? I would expect there is as much going on as with other countries. You also suggest that the government has decided to cause scandal for its sports to get attention drawn away from their issues?? I find that really hard to believe when problems like this happen for the US and UK we just invade someone or, blame it all on the poor!!rather than pick on our own sadly ''worshipped'' athletes!!!LOL We shall see what transpires over the coming weeks. I am never impressed when I hear people screaming that they have been either defamed or libelled as many who claim innocence are very guilty but, know how to obfuscate matters
Mitch
We are not immune Mitch...no country is immune from drugs ...what I am whinging about is the way this Govt has handed it....If you knew what issue's the Aust Govt is facing reference member of its party in graft and corruction at the moment...it has been soggested by much wiser people than myself this is another stunt to try and draw attention away from ALLEGHED corrupt ...cheers Tom former govt MPs....not to memtion a tax than does not make money...but..this Govt is right as rain mate.....if they say all sports are effected by drugs and they have the proof (which we have yet to see and their case is getting weaker each day ) ...why should I doubt them ?
 
Mitch,
Your inbox is full (possibly because of another post you just made {sm4}) as just tried to PM you with examples (some of which Tom mentioning).
Brett
 
Mitch,
I dont think anybody is suggesting Aussie athletes/sport etc are or is immune from drug taking. I think there have been a couple of former cyclists who had to step down from admin positions due to previous drug use a few years back.

As I mentioned in my post the way this has been handled seems strange. The way it has been done has tainted many teams and sports but so far very little in the way of evidence has been produced. Even if it is coming it seems a long way off as Police dont seem to be investigating anything so far.

The inquiry involving secret hearings and phone taps has apparently been going on for a year. As I said I would expect even some minor arrests on morning of the big announcement (like the team Dr (Sports scientist) getting all the publicity, a bikie with some drugs, anything).

The press conference had the heads of Cricket, Soccer, League, Rugby and Aussie Rules present but so far nothing has surfaced to implicate Soccer, Cricket and Rugby.

However at the risk of getting into a political discussion I think it would be fair to say the current Govt would be most happy to have this major distraction fighting over the front pages and TV News with other recent events (PM sent with examples).

Regards
Brett
The said Sports scientist who is the apparent fall guy here...has been mention working with some Rugby teams also...so is this what the Govt is basing their claim on reference the Rugby ?.....I hope not...they have not proved the Sports Scientist guy has used illegals drugs and until they do, they look a bit silly......if Mitch was aware of the ALLEGED graft and corruption charges faced by a current Mp and a former Mp... he may understand why it has been suggested in some quarters (many) that the drug thing is a stunt .......and of course,the biggest comedy of the year .....The Mining Tax.....the states tax the mining companys (it is the states ore..not the Feds)...the Feds pay back to the mining companys the money they payed in Tax to the States....who on drugs ? ...cheers Tomb
 
Yeah I'm with me Aussie cousins on this one, I think the whole thing smells like last weeks fishpie........it all seems a little *** about face to me too.

My pick is someone from the media got whiff of the whole enquire and threatened to blow the lid before they were ready.......

Our sports drug agency chairman here in NZ, stated yesterday that they believe at least 25% of proffesional sport nowadays is rigged or been interferred with by criminal groups. This of course not only involves the athletes themselves but also managers and administrators.......very sad really, that things have plunged that far.....
 
Yeah I'm with me Aussie cousins on this one, I think the whole thing smells like last weeks fishpie........it all seems a little *** about face to me too.

My pick is someone from the media got whiff of the whole enquire and threatened to blow the lid before they were ready.......

Our sports drug agency chairman here in NZ, stated yesterday that they believe at least 25% of proffesional sport nowadays is rigged or been interferred with by criminal groups. This of course not only involves the athletes themselves but also managers and administrators.......very sad really, that things have plunged that far.....
No need to worry Kiwi.....they believe...they think.....they have intelligence...etc...but no solid proof......at least everybody will be keeping honest for awhile now......end of story...cheers TomB
 
Correction on my previous post. It appears ACCC has not been listening to wire taps for the past year which was clear impression I thought they were trying to give (no doubt to scare people to come forward). They have received
information from other agencies wire taps. I would think the actual "evidence" from those wire taps would be of
limited value as whatever agency that was using those wire taps (into say a bikie gang etc) is not going to want
to reveal sources/targets of their operations. Any such information is obviously a by-product of other inquiries (probably criminal).

Victorian Police Commissioner said today he had not been presented with any information so far and this is strange considering the main team mentioned is Essandon.

Not my area of knowledge but any doping offences (ie. various supplements, calf blood or antlers etc) may simply
not be criminal but contrary to various sporting codes drug policies. Criminal offences may come into it when you
lie to the ACCC about it.

This has a long way to go yet. I think Todd's comment about it coming out in the press forced their hand is probably a good bet.
 
Correction on my previous post. It appears ACCC has not been listening to wire taps for the past year which was clear impression I thought they were trying to give (no doubt to scare people to come forward). They have received
information from other agencies wire taps. I would think the actual "evidence" from those wire taps would be of
limited value as whatever agency that was using those wire taps (into say a bikie gang etc) is not going to want
to reveal sources/targets of their operations. Any such information is obviously a by-product of other inquiries (probably criminal).

Victorian Police Commissioner said today he had not been presented with any information so far and this is strange considering the main team mentioned is Essandon.

Not my area of knowledge but any doping offences (ie. various supplements, calf blood or antlers etc) may simply
not be criminal but contrary to various sporting codes drug policies. Criminal offences may come into it when you
lie to the ACCC about it.

This has a long way to go yet. I think Todd's comment about it coming out in the press forced their hand is probably a good bet.
I know my memory aint what is used to be but I dont recall the drug mob..sports minister or anyone else except the media carrying on when the drug thing about Ben Cousins hit the fan....I got the impression he was the only one in the AFL or aussie sports taking drugs,,,,Just poor old Ben,,,no-one else,,,,,,,the skite did not hit the fan then.....why >,,,cheers TomB
 
I know my memory aint what is used to be but I dont recall the drug mob..sports minister or anyone else except the media carrying on when the drug thing about Ben Cousins hit the fan....I got the impression he was the only one in the AFL or aussie sports taking drugs,,,,Just poor old Ben,,,no-one else,,,,,,,the skite did not hit the fan then.....why >,,,cheers TomB

Tom, these are young guys getting paid big dollars with easy access to drugs be they for sporting performance or 'recreation'. I understand there is more bad news on the way but I agree with you that the initial matter wasn't handled well by the media.
 
Tom, these are young guys getting paid big dollars with easy access to drugs be they for sporting performance or 'recreation'. I understand there is more bad news on the way but I agree with you that the initial matter wasn't handled well by the media.
The whole thing was not handled well,,,either by the media...the drug mob or by the Govt....things are just starting to be sorted out now,,,,,,though I am waiting with baited breath for arrests...convictions,,,," I was a druggie"..." I fixed games" confessions of the bad guys.....and hard proven facts from the drug mob and Police......" Yea of little Faith" might apply to me here......Ofcourse if the drug mob does have a clue on what they are doing,,,they certainly have a funny way of showing it.....how many days since they announced the crack down and before they started testing the AFL......plenty of time for a Lance Armstrong blood transfusion......I really hope I am wrong and the powers that be known what they are at....right or wrong...they have blacken Aussie Sporties.........Tom
 
Good summary of situation so far.

Former Labor Senator John Black is rightly suspicious of the press conference that launched the astonishing smear of Australian sport:
JOHN Black, the former Labor senator who in the late 1980s chaired the first government-appointed inquiry into drugs in sport in Australia, has labelled the present Australian Crime Commission investigation as “amateur hour"…

The Black inquiry, conducted nearly a quarter of a century ago, covered virtually the same ground being explored by the ACC…
But he has little regard for the way the present investigation has been handled and sympathises with innocent athletes and sports angered by the fact they have been embroiled in what he views as a fairly cynical political exercise.

“Well, why the hell wouldn’t they (be angry)?” he asked. “It was just amateur hour. You looked at it and you thought, ‘Oh my god, this is going to end in tears.’ But it kept the Eddie Obeid (ICAC) inquiry off the front pages for a week, so that was the purpose of it.

”It was clearly some kind of media diversion but it was at the expense of sport...”

One more allegation - raised in the media following the press conference fronted by two Gillard Government ministers - is just a farcical blunder:
CONCERNS $40 million was wagered on an A-League game by Asian punters have been put to rest after Football Federation Australia revealed the figure was in fact eight times less…
And the discrepancy was blamed on the media, which ”reported the estimated figure in Australian dollars instead of the correct denomination of Hong Kong dollars”.

Even the classified version of the ACC report has nothing police feel worth investigating:

THE Australian Crime Commission did not gather any new information about organised crime or doping in sport through telephone taps as part of its 12-month intelligence operation, which Victoria Police Chief Commissioner Ken Lay says has not provided any basis for a criminal investigation…

The lack of specific, suspected crimes documented within the classified version of the ACC report has prompted Mr Lay to seek more information from the federal agency. Mr Lay said Victoria Police had examined both the published and unpublished versions of the report and not found any information on which to base a criminal investigation…

“The advice available to us is there is little for us to investigate,” Mr Lay told Radio 3AW’s Neil Mitchell.

This is amazing.
I repeat: the five sports chiefs who were dragooned into Labor’s press conference to smear Australian sport should call another press conference to clear it.

UPDATE
More farce. The head of anti-doping agency admits “there is not a positive test anywhere in any of this”:
Yet more farce - and what sounds to me too much like a bit of guessing-as-we-go-along:

ASADA chief executive Aurora Andruska estimated that up to 150 players and officials across the codes would be interviewed as part of the investigations but she admitted that figure was only an educated guess.

‘’A lot of pressure has been put on me in recent times to try and come up with a number, particularly from the media, so I decided to come up with some number that was realistic with the information that I had at the time,’’ she said.

‘’When I have come up with that number I have taken into account that we would need to talk to administrators and players and others that would be associated with whatever was going on so at this early stage of the investigation that is my best estimate.

‘’Having said that it could widen because I am reading things in the media about people admitting to taking performance-enhancing drugs that I was not even aware of...”

When the 150 figure came out it was reported as if that’s how many athletes and staff were potentially guilty. Now it’s a guess at how many people may be asked about stuff that might not be a problem anyway.

....
 
Good summary of situation so far.

Former Labor Senator John Black is rightly suspicious of the press conference that launched the astonishing smear of Australian sport:
JOHN Black, the former Labor senator who in the late 1980s chaired the first government-appointed inquiry into drugs in sport in Australia, has labelled the present Australian Crime Commission investigation as “amateur hour"…

The Black inquiry, conducted nearly a quarter of a century ago, covered virtually the same ground being explored by the ACC…
But he has little regard for the way the present investigation has been handled and sympathises with innocent athletes and sports angered by the fact they have been embroiled in what he views as a fairly cynical political exercise.

“Well, why the hell wouldn’t they (be angry)?” he asked. “It was just amateur hour. You looked at it and you thought, ‘Oh my god, this is going to end in tears.’ But it kept the Eddie Obeid (ICAC) inquiry off the front pages for a week, so that was the purpose of it.

”It was clearly some kind of media diversion but it was at the expense of sport...”

One more allegation - raised in the media following the press conference fronted by two Gillard Government ministers - is just a farcical blunder:
CONCERNS $40 million was wagered on an A-League game by Asian punters have been put to rest after Football Federation Australia revealed the figure was in fact eight times less…
And the discrepancy was blamed on the media, which ”reported the estimated figure in Australian dollars instead of the correct denomination of Hong Kong dollars”.

Even the classified version of the ACC report has nothing police feel worth investigating:

THE Australian Crime Commission did not gather any new information about organised crime or doping in sport through telephone taps as part of its 12-month intelligence operation, which Victoria Police Chief Commissioner Ken Lay says has not provided any basis for a criminal investigation…

The lack of specific, suspected crimes documented within the classified version of the ACC report has prompted Mr Lay to seek more information from the federal agency. Mr Lay said Victoria Police had examined both the published and unpublished versions of the report and not found any information on which to base a criminal investigation…

“The advice available to us is there is little for us to investigate,” Mr Lay told Radio 3AW’s Neil Mitchell.

This is amazing.
I repeat: the five sports chiefs who were dragooned into Labor’s press conference to smear Australian sport should call another press conference to clear it.

UPDATE
More farce. The head of anti-doping agency admits “there is not a positive test anywhere in any of this”:
Yet more farce - and what sounds to me too much like a bit of guessing-as-we-go-along:

ASADA chief executive Aurora Andruska estimated that up to 150 players and officials across the codes would be interviewed as part of the investigations but she admitted that figure was only an educated guess.

‘’A lot of pressure has been put on me in recent times to try and come up with a number, particularly from the media, so I decided to come up with some number that was realistic with the information that I had at the time,’’ she said.

‘’When I have come up with that number I have taken into account that we would need to talk to administrators and players and others that would be associated with whatever was going on so at this early stage of the investigation that is my best estimate.

‘’Having said that it could widen because I am reading things in the media about people admitting to taking performance-enhancing drugs that I was not even aware of...”

When the 150 figure came out it was reported as if that’s how many athletes and staff were potentially guilty. Now it’s a guess at how many people may be asked about stuff that might not be a problem anyway.

....
Excellent summary....on the lighter side....I watched or more honesty half watched a Rugby game this arvo..lousy kicking...stupid turnovers and kindergarden fumbling....about normal for Rugby.... The day I see a faultless game of Rugby ( Especially from the Wallabies) then I would suspect the teams were on drugs ( NO proof ofcourse).....and call in the Dopey Commission....er...Dope Commission....cheers TomB
 
Excellent summary....on the lighter side....I watched or more honesty half watched a Rugby game this arvo..lousy kicking...stupid turnovers and kindergarden fumbling....about normal for Rugby.... The day I see a faultless game of Rugby ( Especially from the Wallabies) then I would suspect the teams were on drugs ( NO proof ofcourse).....and call in the Dopey Commission....er...Dope Commission....cheers TomB

Tom,
Having played Rugby at school I was originally not a fan of League when I came to Oz. However after a few years started to find Rugby getting boring and now prefer to watch League. Have never got into that strange Victorian sport AFL although can see it is very athletic (have never watched a complete game).

I thought I was in serious trouble for while when I actually got to like watching cricket but soon went off it (was a swimmer / water polo player at school and never a fan of standing at silly mid off with some guy going to whack a ball at you).

Brett
 
Tom,
Having played Rugby at school I was originally not a fan of League when I came to Oz. However after a few years started to find Rugby getting boring and now prefer to watch League. Have never got into that strange Victorian sport AFL although can see it is very athletic (have never watched a complete game).

I thought I was in serious trouble for while when I actually got to like watching cricket but soon went off it (was a swimmer / water polo player at school and never a fan of standing at silly mid off with some guy going to whack a ball at you).

Brett

It's a miracle {eek3} ^&grin
 
It's a miracle {eek3} ^&grin
That cricket ball is hard...it can hurt...silly mid on is a suicide position but I dont mind the bowling a maiden bit......that AFl is strange alright....the player whinge if they have to spend a few hrs traveling by aircraft to play interstate,,,,, cricket players travel all over the world and in some cases are playing within hrs of arriving,,,AFL is an amazing game...the only game I have seen where a couple play while the rest of the team stand and watch....they only work two hrs a week....they don train during the week ....probably improve the game if they did...they keep hand balling to the opposite team,,kick to the wrong team and cant kick a goal from 20m directly in front of goal...strange game... at least in Rugby every-one plays a full game.....funny thing about aussie rules...I believe it was developed from a warm up game the the cricket mob did ....Water polo......looks like hard work.....do you have a shallow end where you can stand instead of swim ? that way you could be like an AFL game,,,where 95% watch while 5 % work....Up the Rugby......cheers TomB
 
That cricket ball is hard...it can hurt...silly mid on is a suicide position but I dont mind the bowling a maiden bit......that AFl is strange alright....the player whinge if they have to spend a few hrs traveling by aircraft to play interstate,,,,, cricket players travel all over the world and in some cases are playing within hrs of arriving,,,AFL is an amazing game...the only game I have seen where a couple play while the rest of the team stand and watch....they only work two hrs a week....they don train during the week ....probably improve the game if they did...they keep hand balling to the opposite team,,kick to the wrong team and cant kick a goal from 20m directly in front of goal...strange game... at least in Rugby every-one plays a full game.....funny thing about aussie rules...I believe it was developed from a warm up game the the cricket mob did ....Water polo......looks like hard work.....do you have a shallow end where you can stand instead of swim ? that way you could be like an AFL game,,,where 95% watch while 5 % work....Up the Rugby......cheers TomB

Hi Tom, I will leave the retort to someone else, suffice to say I don't follow AFL, Cricket or Rugby {sm3}
 
Hi Tom, I will leave the retort to someone else, suffice to say I don't follow AFL, Cricket or Rugby {sm3}
RightO mate....I luv to stir AFL fans....(Stirring is drug free...so I hope to be safe from the Dopey Commission)...cheers TomB
 

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