AWI - Preparing for the British 22nd Foot (3 Viewers)

[Vezzolf]

Don't worry Mike, I took a quick photo to highlight the "problem." Sorry to hear that you were disappointed with the figures.

Best,

Matt

As near as I can tell from the photo the only figure that does not match up well is the Militia Figure... it is definitely a bit smaller......Note that this is one of the very early FL AWI Revolutionary Soldiers....no doubt that FL figures are getting better with each release.........The 5th and the 22nd regiment match up well and are definitely in the accepable range for scale. IMO...Still works...maybe we will see slightly larger US Minutemen in the near future.

 

[jazzeum]

Maybe he looks smaller because the English guys look well fed, thanks no doubt to the Quartering Acts :wink2:

 

[mikemiller1955]

In addition and this is just me, if I have an issue (whatever that may be) with a shipment I receive, I contact my dealer privately and let the matter be handled discreetly. I guess that's just me though :rolleyes2:

.
I have little time or inclination to discuss this further and this will be my last post on the topic.

Wow...at first I thought I was reading a quote from the arrogant character (Jessup) that Nicholson played in the movie..."A Few Good Men"...

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you", and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a **** what you think you are entitled to!

and Brad...
I would hate to have to follow you through a mine field...
mums the word...
yea...good policy...
let them find them on their own...

 

[marco55]

Brad wasn't too private when KC put out something he didn't like a while back.
Mark

 

[jazzeum]

I'm sure you could find a better comparison because that one is a total non sequitur.

Words have meaning and can have an effect (and as a result of this thread it looks like it already has). Where reasonable minds may differ, what is the harm in contacting the manufacturer before making a post that can have an adverse effect on FL, particularly where you are a big collector of the line?

The fact that reasonable minds may differ shows that Mike may or may not be correct in this matter.

 

[jazzeum]

Brad wasn't too private when KC put out something he didn't like a while back.
Mark

Quite true, and we try to learn from our mistakes, even though we may make them :redface2:

 

[Gebhard]

Wow...at first I thought I was reading a quote from the arrogant character (Jessup) that Nicholson played in the movie..."A Few Good Men"...

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you", and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a **** what you think you are entitled to!

and Brad...
I would hate to have to follow you through a mine field...
mums the word...
yea...good policy...
let them find them on their own...

Hi Mike ,
I'm a little surprised by your post and they way your taking Matts post out of context and making him look arrogant if that was the full extent of his response I'd think the same. To be fair I think you have to look at the whole post, not only did Matt take the time and take the Photo but I really think he was truly surprised and disappointed by Mikes reaction to the new release of the 22nd which I'm sure Matt and First Legion are very proud of. I know I was really looking forward to seeing how Mike would display these new and IMO darn fine looking figures, and I'm sure Matt was as well. I think the last part of his post shows this disappointment which I quote here.

"Like I said, I'm really sorry you didn't like the figures Mike and I absolutely mean that. I think you're a genuinely good guy and extremely knowlegeable, but perhaps you're being a tad too hard on us (and your dealer)."

I'm just saying.. regards Gebhard

 

[mikemiller1955]

Gebhard...yes...what you paraphrased out of his post does sounds very sincere...

what are your thoughts on this comment of his from the same post...

...............................................................................................................................
"I have little time or inclination to discuss this further and this will be my last post on the topic"
...............................................................................................................................

I spoke to Mestelle (Mike) via phone twice today...
he's a stand up guy...
if he says something...you can take it to the bank...
he's a tad upset...
he is/was a very good customer of FL and promoted them in the best light possible on this forum...

would you say that to one of your VERY GOOD customers?

seriously...would you?

 

[Lo1863]

Number 1. These are toy soldiers.

Number 2. Mike (mestell) IS and very nice/standup guy.

Number 3. These are TOY SOLDIERS.

 

[FirstLegion]

Gebhard...yes...what you paraphrased out of his post does sounds very sincere...

what are your thoughts on this comment of his from the same post...

...............................................................................................................................
"I have little time or inclination to discuss this further and this will be my last post on the topic"
...............................................................................................................................

I spoke to Mestelle (Mike) via phone twice today...
he's a stand up guy...
if he says something...you can take it to the bank...
he's a tad upset...
he is/was a very good customer of FL and promoted them in the best light possible on this forum...

would you say that to one of your VERY GOOD customers?

seriously...would you?

Just to clarify this a bit, that sentence was not directed so much toward Mike (Mestell), but on the whole scale issue that seems to be a never ending subject of discussion as far as First Legion is concerned. So take the sentence for what it is, not what it wasn't and I apologize to Mike (Mestell) if he read it as being dismissive to him. It wasn't, I literally do not have the time (or desire) to engage on the forum over the wider issue of which Mike's post is just the latest drop in the bucket. If I did, we'd never get any figures made because for reasons I will never understand, we seem to be held to a far higher standard than anyone else on this particular subject and it does get a bit frustrating considering the care and attention that we obviously put into our products.

I absolutely agree with you that Mike is a stand up guy and I pretty much said so in my post and I really am sorry that he was disappointed. I'd like to think that he knows I think highly of him. Further, because he is a well respected member of this forum, if he says something than others will surely listen and perhaps that's the frustrating part. That being said, just because Mike is a stand up guy and a customer that doesn't mean i have to agree with him and on this issue I clearly do not. He is certainly entitled to his opinion and in this case he voted with his wallet and that's his right to do so. But it is encumbant on me to make sure that our products are accurately represented. Could I possibly have done it better or more politically? Probably. But then again, I feel that perhaps he could have as well.

Matt

 

[spartan71]

I have been watching this thread, And tried to stay out. I can understand the frustrations of both sides, I myself when It comes to a single miniature, the difference in size. It does not bother me as much, The way that I think about it is in real life, There are 5'6 soldiers and there are soldiers that are 6'2 soldiers or higher.Art(as I like to think of First Legion products) does immitate life. You have soldiers that are skinny, Or heavy set soldiers. It does not necesarilly need to be uniformed In size
I have talked/ emailed to 3 manufacturers. Every one has been responsive and cordial. Up to a point of course. And in those times that they stopped being cordial is when the same questions keep popping up.
So it is just matter, if we can tolerate any changes or not. If you can not. Then do not buy it, You are in control of your decisions. No one is forcing you to buy, anything.

 

[Gebhard]

Gebhard...yes...what you paraphrased out of his post does sounds very sincere...

what are your thoughts on this comment of his from the same post...

...............................................................................................................................
"I have little time or inclination to discuss this further and this will be my last post on the topic"
...............................................................................................................................

I spoke to Mestelle (Mike) via phone twice today...
he's a stand up guy...
if he says something...you can take it to the bank...
he's a tad upset...
he is/was a very good customer of FL and promoted them in the best light possible on this forum...

would you say that to one of your VERY GOOD customers?

seriously...would you?

Hi Mike ,
Like I said in my first post " if that was the full extent of his response I'd think the same " and that's true if that was all he said I'd think him something far worse then arrogant :wink2:. But I guess like you choose to focus only on that one part of his post , While I don't claim to know Matt's heart I truly think as I said before " he was truly surprised and disappointed by Mikes reaction to the new release of the 22nd which I'm sure Matt and First Legion are very proud of." I choose to take in the whole post and see that he took the time to take and post a picture to highlight his point of view as well as said this about Mike "Like I said, I'm really sorry you didn't like the figures Mike and I absolutely mean that. I think you're a genuinely good guy and extremely knowlegeable, but perhaps you're being a tad too hard on us (and your dealer).".
As for your question would I have said that .. maybe that's not such good question to ask me, If I was forced to work in China and hadn't seen members of my family for over 4 years I may have said something a little um ya know:wink2:^&grin. I think it's a loose loose here, I know I'm bummed I really look forward to Mike's Dios and photo's and was looking forward to pictures of the 22nd in action. regards Gebhard

 

[Vezzolf]

As most of you know I am an avid fan of First Legion products:wink2:...My primary and major area of interest in First Legion is the WWII Stalingrad line(Germans/Russians) and NAPS(British/French/Russians/Prussians)........I have also collected some FL Romans(only), Crusaders(only).....I did purchase the AWI British 5th regiment (only) as a stand alone cabinet display because I could not resist those "Red-Coats":wink2:.....I personally did not care for the Continental Militia Figures so I passed on those......I also passed on the Mamaluks and Roman Germanic Tribes.....I purchase FL because First Legion products are second to NONE in quality.....Perfect???....NO......But...Dam Close to Perfect......Beautiful Sculpts, Superb Paint, Proportioned figures/weapons and yes "accurate scale"....If I was a serious AWI collector I would still purchase the 22nd British regiment...They look like fantastic figures:salute::....I insist on scale accuracy within a range as much as the next guy....It is very important to be consistent in regards to scale....And FL does that BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE.....As I said before, The Continental Militia Figures were an "early" FL product and may have been made a little too small/thin for my liking but that would not hold me back from purchasing the AWI British 22nd Regiment...I exspect FL will evaluate these size issues and I exspect we will continue to see the usual fine "accurate scale products" that characterizes this company.....FIRST LEGION RULES....STILL:salute::

 

[thebritfarmer]

Once again I have had to prune a FL thread.

I think everyone has had there say on the matter and I think it is now time to move on.

 

[mikemiller1955]

Gebhard...I'm trying to send you a personal message...but your box is full...can you delete some of your messages so I can send you mine...thanks...Michael

 

[Gebhard]

Gebhard...I'm trying to send you a personal message...but your box is full...can you delete some of your messages so I can send you mine...thanks...Michael

Hi Mike ,
Done , but be gentle with me I'm really a nice guy ^&grin.. Happy Friday :salute::..Biers boys ..regards Gebhard

 

[mikemiller1955]

Gebhard...
thanks for making space in your mailbox...
I'm sending you a very nice email..........^&grin..........
I think it will explain a lot...
I would like to keep the contents personal and am avoiding posting here as Scott has suggested this thread has run it's course...

 

[Rob]

Excellent looking figures in a terrific looking scene. Must confesd to not having had a good look at these before and they are really very good .

Rob

 

[Harper (aka Spitfrnd)]

Wow...at first I thought I was reading a quote from the arrogant character (Jessup) that Nicholson played in the movie..."A Few Good Men"...

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you", and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a **** what you think you are entitled to!

and Brad...
I would hate to have to follow you through a mine field...
mums the word...
yea...good policy...
let them find them on their own...

FWIW, I think Jessup's comment was frankly rather remote in context from the example you chose for comparison. I also agree that the example posted showed little in the way of dramatic scale differences, perhaps others do but if that was the point I think posting your own figure comparison would have been the more appropriate first step if there was a perceived to make the issue publc. I think any fair comment on figures is not only acceptable but important but critical comments without some perspective, like measurements or photos, are often less than helpful. Moreover, unlike friend Jessup, I would observe that Mr Pavone went out of his way to point out how much he appreciated both the posters business and his support, as well as his prior demeanor. In this context, I would have to say I think the manufacturer's response was understandable and not arrogant in the least. I think his further explanation makes that more than clear.

 

[Vezzolf]

I agree with your post completely...The AWI era is not my main area of collecting interest.... If indeed there exists a "significant variance" in scale for this 22nd Regiment AWI range, it should have been shown in pictures/measurements by Mestell....I know he is a serious AWI collector,who posts excellent dioramas....It would better to explain his concerns/complaints for the benefit of all concerned.....The big question is, are these size differences in the "acceptable range"??....I am not a diorama builder so I will very likely purchase some of the AWI 22nd British footsoldiers irregardless and display them......Beautiful detail First Legion.{bravo}}..........I have not seen any significant scale inconsistencies in the FL ranges that I collect....It seems that FL is sometimes held to standards that are never exspected from other toy soldier manufacturers....Amazing.