Baseball 2012 (2 Viewers)

Noah,

I know you're trying to be nice and everything but when you're one strike away several times losing is inexcusable and although the Nats had a great season there will be that bad aftertaste.

I did say earlier in this thread watch out for the Cards and I wasn't kidding because they've done that too many times. The Nats should have factored that into their thinking.

I feel bad for the Nats because I really wanted Davey to get a second ring. He's been on both sides now of great comebacks. The only quibble I have is that when Molina got on he should have come out. This is not a second guess because I thought that at the time.

Brad
Davey made a couple of questionable decisions in the game regarding the pitching. One was sticking with Gonzalez once it was obvious he had lost the plate but that could have been ok if the relief pitchers had done their jobs. I'm not talking about the closer Storen, that was just a complete meltdown and that stuff happens. Davey had better options in the bullpen than using the starter Jackson, who hasn't been sharp of late and hadn't been used in relief at all. That was 1 run that needn't have happened. The other choice that didn't work was Clippard, who has been very hit or miss for a month or more and has been vulnerable to the Hr ball since the All-Star break. Granted that Clippard was one of the bullpen's stalwarts all year, but he has been worn down and hittable as a result. That was a second run that needn't have happened. Davey had at least 2 better options than him at that point. That said, Davey had worked the pen all year like this (with the exception of Jackson), and if all had worked like it did up through August, Nats should have won. But that's sports and second guessing really isn't of much use. -- Al
 
Davey made a couple of questionable decisions in the game regarding the pitching. One was sticking with Gonzalez once it was obvious he had lost the plate but that could have been ok if the relief pitchers had done their jobs. I'm not talking about the closer Storen, that was just a complete meltdown and that stuff happens. Davey had better options in the bullpen than using the starter Jackson, who hasn't been sharp of late and hadn't been used in relief at all. That was 1 run that needn't have happened. The other choice that didn't work was Clippard, who has been very hit or miss for a month or more and has been vulnerable to the Hr ball since the All-Star break. Granted that Clippard was one of the bullpen's stalwarts all year, but he has been worn down and hittable as a result. That was a second run that needn't have happened. Davey had at least 2 better options than him at that point. That said, Davey had worked the pen all year like this (with the exception of Jackson), and if all had worked like it did up through August, Nats should have won. But that's sports and second guessing really isn't of much use. -- Al

I don't know the Nats nearly as well as you Al, but I certainly agree about Jackson. His appearance last night, given his spotty outings of late was a surprise. Given his lack of control in Game 3, I was surprised he came out in relief yesterday.

Noah,

I know you're trying to be nice and everything but when you're one strike away several times losing is inexcusable and although the Nats had a great season there will be that bad aftertaste.

I did say earlier in this thread watch out for the Cards and I wasn't kidding because they've done that too many times. The Nats should have factored that into their thinking.

I feel bad for the Nats because I really wanted Davey to get a second ring. He's been on both sides now of great comebacks. The only quibble I have is that when Molina got on he should have come out. This is not a second guess because I thought that at the time.

Brad

Brad, nothing wrong with trying to soften the blow, right? The Nats were as close as you can get without moving on. Small consolation, but true nonetheless. I think the ninth inning was a good example of the "intangible" provided by the Cards experience. Your point on Johnson is a good one too. He is a stand up manager and has been successful in many places. He will be back with the Nats, won't he?

Also, I don't understand the last part of your post. Are you saying Storen should have come out after the walk to Molina? If that's what you meant, I can agree that's probably a move that the Nats should have made....

Noah
 
I don't know the Nats nearly as well as you Al, but I certainly agree about Jackson. His appearance last night, given his spotty outings of late was a surprise. Given his lack of control in Game 3, I was surprised he came out in relief yesterday.



Brad, nothing wrong with trying to soften the blow, right? The Nats were as close as you can get without moving on. Small consolation, but true nonetheless. I think the ninth inning was a good example of the "intangible" provided by the Cards experience. Your point on Johnson is a good one too. He is a stand up manager and has been successful in many places. He will be back with the Nats, won't he?

Also, I don't understand the last part of your post. Are you saying Storen should have come out after the walk to Molina? If that's what you meant, I can agree that's probably a move that the Nats should have made....

Noah
Guys, as far as Storen coming out after the walk, that wasn't going to happen. Davey stuck with what worked for him in the season. He is a little inflexible when it comes to changing boats in mid-stream. It's sink or swim with what got you there and every move he made out of the bullpen (except Jackson, which I will never understand) was the way it had been done (and sucessfully) all year. Storen was Davey's man for the close and that's all there was to it. As far as his coming back as manager next season, he was very non-commital in the post game interviews, with no mention of the future at all. Just have to wait and see. -- Al
 
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I didn't mean they should have taken him out but that somebody should have come out and talked to him sooner than they did, to settle him down.

I do hope Davey comes back. I'm surprised that there is the possibility he isn't.
 
Now that my O's are out of it I believe the Tigers win the AL series, the O's pushed the Yanks about as hard as you push a team for 5 great games and I think the Yanks will run out of steam in this series...Sammy
 
As much as I hate to see the Yankees in the playoffs I was relieved when the O's were eliminated by them. I think the O's presented a much harder matchup for the Tigers. Regardless the series between the Tigs and Yanks should still be a good one and hopefully my Tigers win the series^&grin
 
I was thinking the Angels should make a run at Valverde but after what I've seen his last two games, no way.
 
I was thinking the Angels should make a run at Valverde but after what I've seen his last two games, no way.

He has lost so many games for the Tigers this year. I can't believe he may have done it again. The angels can have this guy.
 
Year after year, it's the same story: closers screw up. No wonder managers have gray hair.
 
The Yankees may lose more than a game by losing Jeter :(

Its all over for the Yankees. Without Jeter, the only clutch player on the team, they will be swept. Last night was the most painful playoff game I ever had to suffer through watching. First, Girardi inexplicably puts A-Rod, Swisher and Granderson (the never get a post-season RBI bunch) back to back to back in the lineup, and, of course, the Yankees manage 3 bases loaded situations without a run for the first time in their history, thanks in large part to A-Rod (twice, once a strikeout with second and third and no one out), Swisher and Granderson (between A-Rod and Granderson, I think they have somewhere around 25 strikeouts in around 45 playoff plate appearances). Then, Jeter's broken ankle. Then, after a miraculous 9th inning comeback, putting in Phelps and blowing it in extra innings.

I would have cut Swisher last night after the game, told A-Rod not to bother dressing for any games from now on, and told Granderson to start thinking about trade destinations in the offseason. What a disaster.
 
I couldn't agree more about it being a disaster. He's their leader, not to mention being an icon. You can't lose a player of his quality and be expected to win, particularly when others are scuffling.

It's going to be really tough for them to win the series. I had been hoping for a Giants Yankees series, although Yankees Cards would have been interesting as well, but it looks like a replay of the 2006 WS may be more likely.

Let's hope he's ready for Spring training. They said three months rehab so he should be.
 
I couldn't agree more about it being a disaster. He's their leader, not to mention being an icon. You can't lose a player of his quality and be expected to win, particularly when others are scuffling.

It's going to be really tough for them to win the series. I had been hoping for a Giants Yankees series, although Yankees Cards would have been interesting as well, but it looks like a replay of the 2006 WS may be more likely.

Let's hope he's ready for Spring training. They said three months rehab so he should be.
Good possibility that we will see Cards vs. Tigers in the WS. Also probable it could be SF vs. Tigers. Cards hard to kill but SF has the pitching to do it. Should be a great series. Sorry to see Jeter go down for several reasons, not the least of which is, like everyone else, I believe it finishes the NYY chances of advancing. Who knows though. Maybe the NYY will rally in adversity and pull it out. At any rate, it will be a good series, whomever gets in, as all the remaining teams are good ones, no flukes. Pulling for NY vs. SF, but will enjoy whatever occurs. Cards vs. Tigers would bring a fourth round in their rivalry; 1934, Cards win; 1968, Tigers win; 2006, Cards win. Symetry says Tigers turn if they face off. Yankees vs Giants is a long history having played each other 7 times in the WS, though none since 1962. Giants won first 2 times in 1921 and 22. Yanks won the last 5 times, 1923, 36, 37, 51, and 62. The Giants and Tigers have played once, in 1934, with the Giants winning. The Cards and Yankees have played 5 times, with the Cards winning in 1926, 42, and 64 and the Yanks winning in 1928 and 43. No point to this WS history, just fun.:wink2: -- Al
 
Well, that was pretty awful. I'm not sure how much difference Jeter would have made. They're just in a malaise. When you live by the HR, yo will die by the HR.

Louis might be right about getting swept. They have to face Verlander next, no easy task even when your offense is clicking.
 
Well, that was pretty awful. I'm not sure how much difference Jeter would have made. They're just in a malaise. When you live by the HR, yo will die by the HR.

Louis might be right about getting swept. They have to face Verlander next, no easy task even when your offense is clicking.
I agree. I normally am pretty definite about not saying it's over until the last out of the final game, but this series looks done to me. Verlander is just too good to hope to be able to stay alive against, on his home turf, especially with no one hitting. Too bad as I would have at least liked to see the Yanks make the series. -- Al
 
Since the Yankees last World Series win, the team has not been very clutch or very likeable. Regardless of the HR potential, with the exception of Tex, Jeter and Ibanez, there are no heroes in this bunch. Most past Yankee teams had a dynamic that had clutch bit players mixed in with a star or 2 to create a never say die attitude. This team looks like dead men walking. No one can blame the Yanks starting staff in this disaster in the making. I am all for blowing this team up next year ( let Swisher walk, do not pick up Grandersons option, and not resign Cano to the Boras based ridiculous contract demands. ) Try to keep the piching intact ( hoping the injured Pineda comes back to form ) and try for a younger, more faster team. Even the idea of diminishing Arods role on this team would be OK with me. Michael
 
Since the Yankees last World Series win, the team has not been very clutch or very likeable. Regardless of the HR potential, with the exception of Tex, Jeter and Ibanez, there are no heroes in this bunch. Most past Yankee teams had a dynamic that had clutch bit players mixed in with a star or 2 to create a never say die attitude. This team looks like dead men walking. No one can blame the Yanks starting staff in this disaster in the making. I am all for blowing this team up next year ( let Swisher walk, do not pick up Grandersons option, and not resign Cano to the Boras based ridiculous contract demands. ) Try to keep the piching intact ( hoping the injured Pineda comes back to form ) and try for a younger, more faster team. Even the idea of diminishing Arods role on this team would be OK with me. Michael

I agree with everything you said except about Cano. He has good playoff numbers prior to this year, and is the best second baseman the Yankees have ever had. He is the only position player who stunk in this playoff I would bring back. I don't care how much money we owe him I would flat out cut A-Rod, he is a dead loss. The steriods ruined him, and without them, he has nothing left in the tank.
 
Well, that was pretty awful. I'm not sure how much difference Jeter would have made. They're just in a malaise. When you live by the HR, yo will die by the HR.

Louis might be right about getting swept. They have to face Verlander next, no easy task even when your offense is clicking.

Speaking of the Yankees and home runs, I heard that the team scored over 48% of their runs by the long ball this year. That's unreal! Of course, it also kind of explains their woes now. Without the home run, they don't seem to have anything. That Yanks can't manufacture a run if they wanted to.

Noah
 
Now that my O's are out of it I believe the Tigers win the AL series, the O's pushed the Yanks about as hard as you push a team for 5 great games and I think the Yanks will run out of steam in this series...Sammy

I threw back a Fosters for you Friday night at the Rams Head. All sorts of Orioles fans there. Too bad though, I felt for them but they were a fun crowd to hang with. Lots of craziness!! {sm4}{sm3}
 

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