Brand Loyalty (1 Viewer)

[Rob]

To fair Rob don't think your post has anything to do with brand loyalty and think Brett has pulled me before and anyone else who say anything wrong with K&C . I'm not having a dig at you mate just giving you a different opinion to your post . :smile2:

Thats fine Neil, no probs.

Back to loyalty now!

Rob

 

[Jack]

I've never really been on board with the notion of 'loyalty' between customer and manufacturer. Speaking for myself, I have TS from seven different makers with Britains now just edging out K&C as the most numerous. I have bought based on an ever changing mix of issues ranging from cost, historical period, sculpt, diorama possibilties, whimsy - a few weeks ago I almost made a significant purchase based on the fact that a series of (non Arnhem!) products from one manufacturer had been bagged so relentlessly and seemingly so personally that I almost staged a useless one man protest by starting an entirely new range. Fortunately my dealer mocked me at the appropriate point and I moved onto another (cheaper!!) purchase.

How is buying something you like and you want an act of loyalty? Do you have to buy something you do not like at a price you cannot afford to be loyal? I suspect that some angst is the result of an overestimation of the relationship between buyer and seller, or in other words, an unnecessary complication to what is a financial arrangement no different from buying any other product. It is made even more problematic if one is convinced that they are a loyal customer, with the implication that any decision made by a manufacturer regarding lines, cost, timings that does not suit them personally is an act of disloyalty. If someone spends twice as much is he twice as loyal? To argue the case for loyalty one might imply that it is possible to be disloyal. Is the act of buying from another manufacturer, or switching manufacturers completely, an act of disloyalty?

My good friend Wayne collects every TS and vehicle that relates to WW1 and anything that represents Australians at war. How disloyal, therefore, are the manufacturers in their stubborn, selfish, pig headed refusal to immediately release a Gallipoli range. He is loyal, so how about it? I, on the other hand, will buy only if I like the price, sculpt, diorama possibilities and I have space in my purchasing budget. I am pretty disloyal, as you know.

Jack

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I've never really been on board with the notion of 'loyalty' between customer and manufacturer. Speaking for myself, I have TS from seven different makers with Britains now just edging out K&C as the most numerous. I have bought based on an ever changing mix of issues ranging from cost, historical period, sculpt, diorama possibilties, whimsy - a few weeks ago I almost made a significant purchase based on the fact that a series of (non Arnhem!) products from one manufacturer had been bagged so relentlessly and seemingly so personally that I almost staged a useless one man protest by starting an entirely new range. Fortunately my dealer mocked me at the appropriate point and I moved onto another (cheaper!!) purchase.

How is buying something you like and you want an act of loyalty? Do you have to buy something you do not like at a price you cannot afford to be loyal? I suspect that some angst is the result of an overestimation of the relationship between buyer and seller, or in other words, an unnecessary complication to what is a financial arrangement no different from buying any other product. It is made even more problematic if one is convinced that they are a loyal customer, with the implication that any decision made by a manufacturer regarding lines, cost, timings that does not suit them personally is an act of disloyalty. If someone spends twice as much is he twice as loyal? To argue the case for loyalty one might imply that it is possible to be disloyal. Is the act of buying from another manufacturer, or switching manufacturers completely, an act of disloyalty?

My good friend Wayne collects every TS and vehicle that relates to WW1 and anything that represents Australians at war. How disloyal, therefore, are the manufacturers in their stubborn, selfish, pig headed refusal to immediately release a Gallipoli range. He is loyal, so how about it? I, on the other hand, will buy only if I like the price, sculpt, diorama possibilities and I have space in my purchasing budget. I am pretty disloyal, as you know.

Jack

Excellent argument - sums it up nicely. As for the acts of disloyalty, I have had the impression on occasion that buying from other manufacturers, switching manufacturers, or even critiquing a manufacturer's product (even a single figure) can be treated as an act of disloyalty by supporters of the manufacturer and even by the manufacturer themselves. Same for praising another manufacturer's product.

Terry

 

[jazzeum]

Couldn't agree more with the preceding two posts.

 

[Jack]

Excellent argument - sums it up nicely. As for the acts of disloyalty, I have had the impression on occasion that buying from other manufacturers, switching manufacturers, or even critiquing a manufacturer's product (even a single figure) can be treated as an act of disloyalty by supporters of the manufacturer and even by the manufacturer themselves. Same for praising another manufacturer's product.

Terry

Terry

Excellent that you have agreed with me - in my experience that exponentially increases a person's chances of being correct{sm4}{sm4}

I think that some of the disloyalty vs loyalty angst also comes from the rather murkier discussion of the motives of the people praising or criticising a product, which is a far more problematic issue and one which does not really lend itself to a resolution on a Forum. That said, in my case, right or wrong, I am happy for people to criticise a product but having done it, perhaps it might then be time to move on. If you say a figure is rubbish (which is your right) and that you will not be buying it (also you right) I do feel, with repect for any who do this, you should then excuse yourself from the ensuing discussion unless someone engages with your comment. I hate American football, but I do not get on the Forum and repeatedly say 'where is the flow', 'what is this stoppage for', 'how many teams are out there'. I just let people enjoy the discussion and the friendships. If there was anything wrong with cricket (and there isn't) I wouldn't expect my Americans cousins to repeatedly criticise a national game. In that sense I am betraying my bias for a Forum that is overwhelmingly a positive discussion of everything with only a little bit of criticism. I acknowledge that this view is not necessarily compatible with the pursuit of 'truth', although some do pursue it with what I would characterise as a 'messianic fervour'.

Jack

 

[Northgate Woods]

Jack mate,
I hope your GLW (good lady wife), Marge, has a dictionary handy at all times.^&grin I know I had to dive for mine as I ambled thru your posts.:smile2: You have to remember that I am just a small corner shop proprietor.^&grin
Interesting summary of your thoughts. We will have to discuss this more at the Brissy K&C Dinner.
Nobody so far on this thread has been able to give me a true definition of the term "Brand Loyality". Your skills as a scholar surely must be able to come up with a proper definition??
Cheers Howard

 

[Jack]

Jack mate,
I hope your GLW (good lady wife), Marge, has a dictionary handy at all times.^&grin I know I had to dive for mine as I ambled thru your posts.:smile2: You have to remember that I am just a small corner shop proprietor.^&grin
Interesting summary of your thoughts. We will have to discuss this more at the Brissy K&C Dinner.
Nobody so far on this thread has been able to give me a true definition of the term "Brand Loyality". Your skills as a scholar surely must be able to come up with a proper definition??
Cheers Howard

Jack'sdictionary.com

Brand loyalty - Much overused term referencing an ephemeral and tenuous relationship between a buyer and a seller that can exist only when both parties meet the other's expectations at all times. Like the words 'brilliant', 'random' and 'hero', it is poorly understood and often used out of context. From the Latin 'expectus too muchi'.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Jack mate,
I hope your GLW (good lady wife), Marge, has a dictionary handy at all times.^&grin I know I had to dive for mine as I ambled thru your posts.:smile2: You have to remember that I am just a small corner shop proprietor.^&grin
Interesting summary of your thoughts. We will have to discuss this more at the Brissy K&C Dinner.
Nobody so far on this thread has been able to give me a true definition of the term "Brand Loyality". Your skills as a scholar surely must be able to come up with a proper definition??
Cheers Howard

Not taking anything away from Jack's posts, which I must say have been excellent{sm4} .......but for what it's worth Howard, Brand Loyalty can also be referred to ......as when customers become committed to a brand and make repeated purchases over time, often regardless of convenience or price.
Cheers Toddy

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Howard. Brand loyalty can be expressed very simply. It's when a person continues to buy a company's product even when a competitor sells the same quality product at a lower price; or when a competitor produces a higher quality product at the same price. It can also be habitual. Marketing surveys have also found truisms like "My father always drove a Ford; I drive a Ford. Wouldn't want to drive a GM."

Terry

 

[uksubs]

Not taking anything away from Jack's posts, which I must say have been excellent{sm4} .......but for what it's worth Howard, Brand Loyalty can also be referred to ......as when customers become committed to a brand and make repeated purchases over time, often regardless of convenience or price.
Cheers Toddy[/

My girlfriend is she shop in Sainburys every week ^&grin

 

[ChrisTay]

Actually, I do not understand why anyone should be questioning another person's loyalty to a brand. It is his money and his satisfaction. Unless any brand here is setting itself out to cheat anyone on a fly by night basis, why should a person's brand loyalty be brought to question. Unless you are helping to pay for it, why should you tell me that I go with whichever brand? This whole thread is really going nowhere.

For your info, I collect both K&C and FL, and I just go with the feel of who offers a better product for the range or period that I want to collect.

Let us look at cars. There are quirky cars like Alfa Romeo and SAAB. I believe they are not the best of products in quality but they offer something that their fans want. So, there is brand loyalty to the level of being cult following. Do you then if you drive a Toyota, VW or Merc impose your own preference onto them? Yes, it sounds stupid if their cars are in the workshop most of the time, but if they get gratification, who is anyone to question the owner's brand loyalty.

This forum should be about product reviews (pros and cons), nice high quality pics, different levels of dioramas (some will be professional, some will be beginners, some to showcase the products). Members can then get the information that they need and make up their own choices about product. I bought my first Figarti Stuka this week after reading the Figarti posts. I bought it on the basis of the most probable best quality available now at this price point. This is what it is about when we use this forum.

Ps if I am out of point, I apologize. But, I started from the first post in this thread, got very lost reading it along the way and I am not even sure what this thread is trying to lead to. I just dislike any to suggest that some of us are "blind" idiots again because I do not tell you similarly what you should be buying. Let us just get objective about each product listing its pros and cons. The reader can then decide what he wants to do with his money even if he is "stupidly blind faith".

Rgds,Chris

 

[Desertkiwi]

Not taking anything away from Jack's posts, which I must say have been excellent{sm4} .......but for what it's worth Howard, Brand Loyalty can also be referred to ......as when customers become committed to a brand and make repeated purchases over time, often regardless of convenience or price.
Cheers Toddy[/

My girlfriend is she shop in Sainburys every week ^&grin

Know that's what I call loyal.....^&grin

 

[Rob]

Actually, I do not understand why anyone should be questioning another person's loyalty to a brand. It is his money and his satisfaction. Unless any brand here is setting itself out to cheat anyone on a fly by night basis, why should a person's brand loyalty be brought to question. Unless you are helping to pay for it, why should you tell me that I go with whichever brand? This whole thread is really going nowhere.

For your info, I collect both K&C and FL, and I just go with the feel of who offers a better product for the range or period that I want to collect.

Let us look at cars. There are quirky cars like Alfa Romeo and SAAB. I believe they are not the best of products in quality but they offer something that their fans want. So, there is brand loyalty to the level of being cult following. Do you then if you drive a Toyota, VW or Merc impose your own preference onto them? Yes, it sounds stupid if their cars are in the workshop most of the time, but if they get gratification, who is anyone to question the owner's brand loyalty.

This forum should be about product reviews (pros and cons), nice high quality pics, different levels of dioramas (some will be professional, some will be beginners, some to showcase the products). Members can then get the information that they need and make up their own choices about product. I bought my first Figarti Stuka this week after reading the Figarti posts. I bought it on the basis of the most probable best quality available now at this price point. This is what it is about when we use this forum.

Ps if I am out of point, I apologize. But, I started from the first post in this thread, got very lost reading it along the way and I am not even sure what this thread is trying to lead to. I just dislike any to suggest that some of us are "blind" idiots again because I do not tell you similarly what you should be buying. Let us just get objective about each product listing its pros and cons. The reader can then decide what he wants to do with his money even if he is "stupidly blind faith".

Rgds,Chris

Excellent post, well said Chris.

Rob

 

[Desertkiwi]

Actually, I do not understand why anyone should be questioning another person's loyalty to a brand. It is his money and his satisfaction. Unless any brand here is setting itself out to cheat anyone on a fly by night basis, why should a person's brand loyalty be brought to question. Unless you are helping to pay for it, why should you tell me that I go with whichever brand? This whole thread is really going nowhere.

For your info, I collect both K&C and FL, and I just go with the feel of who offers a better product for the range or period that I want to collect.

Let us look at cars. There are quirky cars like Alfa Romeo and SAAB. I believe they are not the best of products in quality but they offer something that their fans want. So, there is brand loyalty to the level of being cult following. Do you then if you drive a Toyota, VW or Merc impose your own preference onto them? Yes, it sounds stupid if their cars are in the workshop most of the time, but if they get gratification, who is anyone to question the owner's brand loyalty.

This forum should be about product reviews (pros and cons), nice high quality pics, different levels of dioramas (some will be professional, some will be beginners, some to showcase the products). Members can then get the information that they need and make up their own choices about product. I bought my first Figarti Stuka this week after reading the Figarti posts. I bought it on the basis of the most probable best quality available now at this price point. This is what it is about when we use this forum.

Ps if I am out of point, I apologize. But, I started from the first post in this thread, got very lost reading it along the way and I am not even sure what this thread is trying to lead to. I just dislike any to suggest that some of us are "blind" idiots again because I do not tell you similarly what you should be buying. Let us just get objective about each product listing its pros and cons. The reader can then decide what he wants to do with his money even if he is "stupidly blind faith".

Rgds,Chris

You raise some interesting points Chris, which make a lot of sense.....and you've done well to read through the whole thread. The topic itself has been touched on many times, during a number of unrelated threads recently and has been the source of heated exchanges and eventual deletions; hence the prediction made by many, that things were going to turn to custard very quickly.......

I have to admit I had my concerns too, but I started the Thread simply to give members an opportunity to discuss the topic in an open environment, under one heading, rather than putting up with the continual disruption, bickering and hijacking of other threads......I also wanted to highlight the point, that brand loyalty is a very personal thing, that no two persons will ever agree upon......in short, what you buy is your business.....deal with.

Cheers.

 

[waynepoo]

I've never really been on board with the notion of 'loyalty' between customer and manufacturer. Speaking for myself, I have TS from seven different makers with Britains now just edging out K&C as the most numerous. I have bought based on an ever changing mix of issues ranging from cost, historical period, sculpt, diorama possibilties, whimsy - a few weeks ago I almost made a significant purchase based on the fact that a series of (non Arnhem!) products from one manufacturer had been bagged so relentlessly and seemingly so personally that I almost staged a useless one man protest by starting an entirely new range. Fortunately my dealer mocked me at the appropriate point and I moved onto another (cheaper!!) purchase.

How is buying something you like and you want an act of loyalty? Do you have to buy something you do not like at a price you cannot afford to be loyal? I suspect that some angst is the result of an overestimation of the relationship between buyer and seller, or in other words, an unnecessary complication to what is a financial arrangement no different from buying any other product. It is made even more problematic if one is convinced that they are a loyal customer, with the implication that any decision made by a manufacturer regarding lines, cost, timings that does not suit them personally is an act of disloyalty. If someone spends twice as much is he twice as loyal? To argue the case for loyalty one might imply that it is possible to be disloyal. Is the act of buying from another manufacturer, or switching manufacturers completely, an act of disloyalty?

My good friend Wayne collects every TS and vehicle that relates to WW1 and anything that represents Australians at war. How disloyal, therefore, are the manufacturers in their stubborn, selfish, pig headed refusal to immediately release a Gallipoli range. He is loyal, so how about it? I, on the other hand, will buy only if I like the price, sculpt, diorama possibilities and I have space in my purchasing budget. I am pretty disloyal, as you know.

Jack

Well I'm chuffed, to considered a good friend of yours is humbling...:rolleyes2: As to loyalty well I just collect anything Australian relating to the Great War and then anything Australian relating to all things military and after that anything that tickles my fancy if 1. it is is well made 2. it pleases the eye 3. and is not Glossy!..:wink2: 4. cost comes into only if I'm poor at the given moment.
It just happens that 90% of my collection is K&C with the rest mostly JJD & TG. Loyalty is to my Family, Friends and my Dogs. Cheers.
Wayne.

 

[waynepoo]

Jack mate,
I hope your GLW (good lady wife), Marge, has a dictionary handy at all times.^&grin I know I had to dive for mine as I ambled thru your posts.:smile2: You have to remember that I am just a small corner shop proprietor.^&grin
Interesting summary of your thoughts. We will have to discuss this more at the Brissy K&C Dinner.
Nobody so far on this thread has been able to give me a true definition of the term "Brand Loyality". Your skills as a scholar surely must be able to come up with a proper definition??
Cheers Howard

Howard,
Mate, 'Skills' and 'Scholar' aren't two words we generally associate with Jack......{sm4}^&grin
Wayne.

 

[ChrisTay]

You raise some interesting points Chris, which make a lot of sense.....and you've done well to read through the whole thread. The topic itself has been touched on many times, during a number of unrelated threads recently and has been the source of heated exchanges and eventual deletions; hence the prediction made by many, that things were going to turn to custard very quickly.......

I have to admit I had my concerns too, but I started the Thread simply to give members an opportunity to discuss the topic in an open environment, under one heading, rather than putting up with the continual disruption, bickering and hijacking of other threads......I also wanted to highlight the point, that brand loyalty is a very personal thing, that no two persons will ever agree upon......in short, what you buy is your business.....deal with.

Cheers.

Hi Toddy,


Now, I see your point. Yes, it is with good intent and it better to be discussed here than to be embedded or hijacked into almost every K&C thread of late. Or even into a FL thread or even any other brand.


And for everyone posting their comment about a product or a model or a figure, I think it is good to hear both pros and cons from the same poster, and what is he comparing it against.

One additional comment. There are also threads in some forum ridiculing some of the simpler dioramas of our members. There will always be fastidious people. God did bless us with them, so it is a cross that we have to bear. I just want to remind them that when there were Tamiya modeling competitions, there were different levels and age groups to cater for the wide variety of people involved in this hobby at different stages of skill. If given sufficient time, money and space, you can certainly make the most professional piece. But, this is not what this hobby is about.

Cheers

 

[Jack]

Howard,
Mate, 'Skills' and 'Scholar' aren't two words we generally associate with Jack......{sm4}^&grin
Wayne.

Howard and Wayne

I am too much of a gentleman to engage in this infantile point scoring.

regards

Dr Jack

PhD, Master of Arts in Military History (Land Warfare), BA (Hons), Graduate Diploma of Arts, Graduate Diploma Teaching, Certificate in getting the last word.

 

[Rob]

Howard and Wayne

I am too much of a gentleman to engage in this infantile point scoring.

regards

Dr Jack

PhD, Master of Arts in Military History (Land Warfare), BA (Hons), Graduate Diploma of Arts, Graduate Diploma Teaching, Certificate in getting the last word.

Jack,

I was rather hoping you had a certificate for getting the last drink:wink2:

Rob

 

[Jack]

Jack,

I was rather hoping you had a certificate for getting the last drink:wink2:

Rob

No - I'm the guy who disappears just before his round and then miraculously reappears when you have given up and bought your own. People find it quite charming!