Brisbane Collectors Dinner (3 Viewers)

[Phantom Warrior]

View attachment 155120
Nice shot of Waynepoo, Andy, Martin & Bob in front of the fantastic ALH diorama.

Impressive ww1 desert diorama, and very big so that it can show well the size of the battle and many things to see. The ground work very well done but......In my view, a big mistake: the turkish position is really on the corner of the table and it shouldn' t be on the border, in fact only half of the turkish defence has been displayed, and you have to imagine the other side.
It' s a pity with so much space available, even considered the fact you wish to put in evidence the australian charge. Maybe a problem to imagine and realize the whole turkish position?[/QUOTE]

I disagree. I think the Turkish position is well laid out with the fort at the front and the four blokes behind the display representing the "BULK" of the Turkish Army. :wink2: No matter, they all get over run in the end by the Light Horse knives. ^&grin

Terry

 

[waynepoo]

Impressive ww1 desert diorama, and very big so that it can show well the size of the battle and many things to see. The ground work very well done but......In my view, a big mistake: the turkish position is really on the corner of the table and it shouldn' t be on the border, in fact only half of the turkish defence has been displayed, and you have to imagine the other side.
It' s a pity with so much space available, even considered the fact you wish to put in evidence the australian charge. Maybe a problem to imagine and realize the whole turkish position?

I disagree. I think the Turkish position is well laid out with the fort at the front and the four blokes behind the display representing the "BULK" of the Turkish Army. :wink2: No matter, they all get over run in the end by the Light Horse knives. ^&grin

Terry[/QUOTE]
The positioning of the Turks was deliberate as the diorama is about the Lighthorse not the Turks, there is space because in reality they were not boot to boot, a diorama is suppose to be a depiction of the real world not a display where you just fill the space just because it is a space, any way Poppo thank for your feedback even though I don't agree with it.
Wayne.

 

[Jack]

The question of how much of the Turkish defences need to be included in a diorama commemorating the experience of Old Boys in the Australian Light Horse is an interesting one. Ultimately, given the constraints, it was necessarily a compromise.
A few issues that helped us come to the decision regarding the relative placement of figures included:
The placement in a school museum demanded that it had relevance to the student body. This meant that the story of the Old Boys needed to be emphasised. No Old Boys served with the Turkish forces.
The question of security in a public museum made a cover a basic requirement. The table measures 2.4 by 2 metres which is almost the maximum for a single sheet of Perspex. Any increase in size would have required a major injection of cash beyond what the grant money would have covered.
The question of ‘truth’ in an historical display is a complex question. It is a far more complex one than whether Rommel ever ate a sandwich in public. The notion of a complete historical truth is a myth. Any book, movie, or display can only convey part of a story. Todd, our NZ friend, might well have asked where the Kiwi troops who played a vital role were located. There needs to be a boundary drawn somewhere. This is an instant in time, inevitably only a small part of the story, so it is incomplete in the same way that all attempts to convey history are incomplete.
We made use of the figures available to us. We are ALH collectors rather than collectors of Turkish figures so we emphasised the mounted figures rather than the defenders. The ALH figures are, subjectively, far more interesting to our audience than the Turks.
We would never have used ‘halves’ in what is an artistic depiction. The Turkish defences could only have been one third of the diorama (or two thirds). In reality they were a little bit less than one third. If we tried to construct even most of the town the table would have been in excess of 35 square metres and would have required literally hundreds more ALH figures. The size and shape of the room would not have permitted this.
We are in discussions already regarding next year’s dioramas. There is a chance that we will have triple the space available given the importance of 2015. We will not have this confirmed for a month. That will tempt us with the possibility of two huge dioramas, in addition to the three tables that will become available in January next year when we dismantle this display. They will certainly be big but they will also be incomplete. A full story is beyond any museum but we will enjoy the experience which is what, in the final analysis, is what it is all about.
Interestingly, there will be little to guide us in terms of creating dioramas of such size. There are certainly large ones in major museums but given the cost of figures and the question of display space, smaller dioramas are inevitably the norm.
We are looking to mark Gallipoli, the Western Front, Battle of Britain and Waterloo next year so we are happy to get some ideas from Forum members.
Hope you have enjoyed our threads which have gone on for much of this year. It is quite possible that we will be starting a thread for next year’s dioramas reasonably promptly given the need to get things organised for April next year. I have just won another, much more sizeable grant from the Queensland government to organise an Anzac commemorative display in the museum. Not for toy soldiers, but it will be part of a bigger and better show next year that the dioramas will augment.

 

[Jack]

The question of how much of the Turkish defences need to be included in a diorama commemorating the experience of Old Boys in the Australian Light Horse is an interesting one. Ultimately, given the constraints, it was necessarily a compromise.
A few issues that helped us come to the decision regarding the relative placement of figures included:
The placement in a school museum demanded that it had relevance to the student body. This meant that the story of the Old Boys needed to be emphasised. No Old Boys served with the Turkish forces.
The question of security in a public museum made a cover a basic requirement. The table measures 2.4 by 2 metres which is almost the maximum for a single sheet of Perspex. Any increase in size would have required a major injection of cash beyond what the grant money would have covered.
The question of ‘truth’ in an historical display is a complex question. It is a far more complex one than whether Rommel ever ate a sandwich in public. The notion of a complete historical truth is a myth. Any book, movie, or display can only convey part of a story. Todd, our NZ friend, might well have asked where the Kiwi troops who played a vital role were located. There needs to be a boundary drawn somewhere. This is an instant in time, inevitably only a small part of the story, so it is incomplete in the same way that all attempts to convey history are incomplete.
We made use of the figures available to us. We are ALH collectors rather than collectors of Turkish figures so we emphasised the mounted figures rather than the defenders. The ALH figures are, subjectively, far more interesting to our audience than the Turks.
We would never have used ‘halves’ in what is an artistic depiction. The Turkish defences could only have been one third of the diorama (or two thirds). In reality they were a little bit less than one third. If we tried to construct even most of the town the table would have been in excess of 35 square metres and would have required literally hundreds more ALH figures. The size and shape of the room would not have permitted this.
We are in discussions already regarding next year’s dioramas. There is a chance that we will have triple the space available given the importance of 2015. We will not have this confirmed for a month. That will tempt us with the possibility of two huge dioramas, in addition to the three tables that will become available in January next year when we dismantle this display. They will certainly be big but they will also be incomplete. A full story is beyond any museum but we will enjoy the experience which is what, in the final analysis, it is all about.
Interestingly, there will be little to guide us in terms of creating dioramas of such size. There are certainly large ones in major museums but given the cost of figures and the question of display space, smaller dioramas are inevitably the norm.
We are looking to mark Gallipoli, the Western Front, Battle of Britain and Waterloo next year so we are happy to get some ideas from Forum members.
Hope you have enjoyed our threads which have gone on for much of this year. It is quite possible that we will be starting a thread for next year’s dioramas reasonably promptly given the need to get things organised for April next year. I have just won another, much more sizeable grant from the Queensland government to organise an Anzac commemorative display in the museum. Not for toy soldiers, but it will be part of a bigger and better show next year that the dioramas will augment.

 

[Jack]

Summary of Andy's talk:

Andy opened his address by making an explicit link between toy soldier collecting and a love of history. It was an idea he returned to on a number of occasions in his discussion of the hobby generally and the opportunities for expansion specifically. The failure of schools to adequately teach history is in Andy’s view ‘a great tragedy’. This was particularly topical given the increasing politicisation of the Australian History Curriculum.

Students have more chance of being familiar with Martin Luther King, Mandela or Gandhi than Winston Churchill or Dwight Eisenhower. Many of us have had the good fortune to have met with veterans of WW2 and some cases even those of WW1. It saddens me that young people today know little history and have not had the privilege of knowing the veterans of WW2.

Andy gave a quick outline of the early years of King and Country and made the point that if it was an overnight success, at 12 years, it was the longest overnight success in history. As for mixing with collectors in person, he acknowledged that this was where some of the best production ideas had their genesis. Nevertheless, Andy also acknowledged that there could be a a clear distinction between a really interesting idea and one that would be a good commercial decision.

Australia is a growing market for King and Country, as is evidenced in the continued success of the Australian Light Horse series. Andy was also kind enough to note that the dioramas on show were ‘something I have not seen in any other part of the world. They are truly unique’. The decision to produce the ALH stemmed from a discussion of what would be an appropriate Australian topic. The options were the First Fleet, Ned Kelly, an iconic bushranger (a bit like an American Outlaw, but tougher, a bit like Robin Hood, but less wearing of tights, no giving to the poor and more historically sound); Breaker Morant (a bit of a My Lai type character but treated quite gently by history and quite roughly by the Brits who shot him); Gallipoli; and the Australian Light Horse. Showing a talent for understatement Andy noted that Gallipoli was ‘from a military point of view, not the most successful campaign in the world’. The ALH, a clear victory, won in a close finish just ahead of Gallipoli as a production choice.

We were fairly sure that we had an Australian market that would cover development costs, so even if it only sold in Australia and nowhere else in the world, it wouldn’t lose money. The nice surprise for us was how well it did outside of Australia. It did very well in the US, exceptionally well in other Commonwealth countries, UK, Canada and New Zealand. It just got bigger and bigger.

Although the ALH range is not finished, it may well be scaled back to accommodate an ANZAC range which will begin before the end of the year. The question of Kokoda figures was given its yearly airing and again any hope of them being produced is limited by the fact that for all its iconic status in Australia, the campaign is little known overseas. Andy did suggest that he might venture into Burma and if that were to eventuate, Kokoda Australians would be a near certainty. It is not on the cards in the near future. The previous forays into the Pacific War were not failures as such but for each US Marine sold, K&C could have sold five Normandy figures.

Andy then answered some questions :

1) Any plans to do Sikh/Indian WWI figures as had a large volunteer army ? - Andy mentioned some already produced in North Africa and Sons of Empire series and will look into possibility of doing some for WWI.

2) Will K&C consider doing some half size bags like the previous Christmas bags but without the snow ? - Will ask Helen to look into it.

3) Any plans for siege equipment for the Medieval series ? - Not at this time. More rank and file planned.

4) Any plans to releases the number of items produced in the past ? - Probably not as would help competitors. Mentioned best selling tank was the Wittmann Tiger with 2,000 sold.

5) Any plans for some Australian / WW2 personaility figures ? - Yes. Couple of figures discussed.

6) What subjects does Andy like ? - Likes the Dunkirk, Malaya/Burma and Bomber Command campaigns.

7) Any plans to do early WW2 Polish Army in defence of Poland ? - No.

There were more questions than this but these are the ones not covered in main write up above.

 

[waynepoo]

One question that Jack missed in his summary (which I asked Andy:wink2 was what amount of figures/vehicles was needed to be sold before they covered costs for the company, his answer was three hundred. So that may answer some questions about why certain figures/vehicles are not made, well it was of interest to me at least....
Wayne.

 

[larso]

I thought it was interesting Wayne! In fact, it seems to be the 'magic' number. I think the Collectors Showcase Roman/Barbarian line are limited to 300 per piece/set. I think I've heard the number used elsewhere too.

 

[Poppo]

I disagree. I think the Turkish position is well laid out with the fort at the front and the four blokes behind the display representing the "BULK" of the Turkish Army. :wink2: No matter, they all get over run in the end by the Light Horse knives. ^&grin

Terry

The positioning of the Turks was deliberate as the diorama is about the Lighthorse not the Turks, there is space because in reality they were not boot to boot, a diorama is suppose to be a depiction of the real world not a display where you just fill the space just because it is a space, any way Poppo thank for your feedback even though I don't agree with it.
Wayne.[/QUOTE]


Of course a diorama is supposed to be a depiction of the real world and not a display you just fill the space just because it is space. I totally agree on this, 100 per cent.I just meant that I would have little more centered the defence for a general view of the battle, but I understand being a commemoration of the Lighthorse the choice you did.

 

[damian]

Summary of Andy's talk:

Andy opened his address by making an explicit link between toy soldier collecting and a love of history. It was an idea he returned to on a number of occasions in his discussion of the hobby generally and the opportunities for expansion specifically. The failure of schools to adequately teach history is in Andy’s view ‘a great tragedy’. This was particularly topical given the increasing politicisation of the Australian History Curriculum.

Students have more chance of being familiar with Martin Luther King, Mandela or Gandhi than Winston Churchill or Dwight Eisenhower. Many of us have had the good fortune to have met with veterans of WW2 and some cases even those of WW1. It saddens me that young people today know little history and have not had the privilege of knowing the veterans of WW2.

Andy gave a quick outline of the early years of King and Country and made the point that if it was an overnight success, at 12 years, it was the longest overnight success in history. As for mixing with collectors in person, he acknowledged that this was where some of the best production ideas had their genesis. Nevertheless, Andy also acknowledged that there could be a a clear distinction between a really interesting idea and one that would be a good commercial decision.

Australia is a growing market for King and Country, as is evidenced in the continued success of the Australian Light Horse series. Andy was also kind enough to note that the dioramas on show were ‘something I have not seen in any other part of the world. They are truly unique’. The decision to produce the ALH stemmed from a discussion of what would be an appropriate Australian topic. The options were the First Fleet, Ned Kelly, an iconic bushranger (a bit like an American Outlaw, but tougher, a bit like Robin Hood, but less wearing of tights, no giving to the poor and more historically sound); Breaker Morant (a bit of a My Lai type character but treated quite gently by history and quite roughly by the Brits who shot him); Gallipoli; and the Australian Light Horse. Showing a talent for understatement Andy noted that Gallipoli was ‘from a military point of view, not the most successful campaign in the world’. The ALH, a clear victory, won in a close finish just ahead of Gallipoli as a production choice.

We were fairly sure that we had an Australian market that would cover development costs, so even if it only sold in Australia and nowhere else in the world, it wouldn’t lose money. The nice surprise for us was how well it did outside of Australia. It did very well in the US, exceptionally well in other Commonwealth countries, UK, Canada and New Zealand. It just got bigger and bigger.

Although the ALH range is not finished, it may well be scaled back to accommodate an ANZAC range which will begin before the end of the year. The question of Kokoda figures was given its yearly airing and again any hope of them being produced is limited by the fact that for all its iconic status in Australia, the campaign is little known overseas. Andy did suggest that he might venture into Burma and if that were to eventuate, Kokoda Australians would be a near certainty. It is not on the cards in the near future. The previous forays into the Pacific War were not failures as such but for each US Marine sold, K&C could have sold five Normandy figures.

Andy then answered some questions :

1) Any plans to do Sikh/Indian WWI figures as had a large volunteer army ? - Andy mentioned some already produced in North Africa and Sons of Empire series and will look into possibility of doing some for WWI.

2) Will K&C consider doing some half size bags like the previous Christmas bags but without the snow ? - Will ask Helen to look into it.

3) Any plans for siege equipment for the Medieval series ? - Not at this time. More rank and file planned.

4) Any plans to releases the number of items produced in the past ? - Probably not as would help competitors. Mentioned best selling tank was the Wittmann Tiger with 2,000 sold.

5) Any plans for some Australian / WW2 personaility figures ? - Yes. Couple of figures discussed.

6) What subjects does Andy like ? - Likes the Dunkirk, Malaya/Burma and Bomber Command campaigns.

7) Any plans to do early WW2 Polish Army in defence of Poland ? - No.

There were more questions than this but these are the ones not covered in main write up above.

Interesting all the choices mentioned I had heard of is some form except for the Light Horse Charge.
Ned Kelly, Gallipoli and Breaker Morant.
I had never heard of the Light Horse before K and C did it
So I have learnt something from this hobby

 

[zulucollector]

Summary of Andy's talk:

Andy opened his address by making an explicit link between toy soldier collecting and a love of history. It was an idea he returned to on a number of occasions in his discussion of the hobby generally and the opportunities for expansion specifically. The failure of schools to adequately teach history is in Andy’s view ‘a great tragedy’. This was particularly topical given the increasing politicisation of the Australian History Curriculum.

Students have more chance of being familiar with Martin Luther King, Mandela or Gandhi than Winston Churchill or Dwight Eisenhower. Many of us have had the good fortune to have met with veterans of WW2 and some cases even those of WW1. It saddens me that young people today know little history and have not had the privilege of knowing the veterans of WW2.

Andy gave a quick outline of the early years of King and Country and made the point that if it was an overnight success, at 12 years, it was the longest overnight success in history. As for mixing with collectors in person, he acknowledged that this was where some of the best production ideas had their genesis. Nevertheless, Andy also acknowledged that there could be a a clear distinction between a really interesting idea and one that would be a good commercial decision.

Australia is a growing market for King and Country, as is evidenced in the continued success of the Australian Light Horse series. Andy was also kind enough to note that the dioramas on show were ‘something I have not seen in any other part of the world. They are truly unique’. The decision to produce the ALH stemmed from a discussion of what would be an appropriate Australian topic. The options were the First Fleet, Ned Kelly, an iconic bushranger (a bit like an American Outlaw, but tougher, a bit like Robin Hood, but less wearing of tights, no giving to the poor and more historically sound); Breaker Morant (a bit of a My Lai type character but treated quite gently by history and quite roughly by the Brits who shot him); Gallipoli; and the Australian Light Horse. Showing a talent for understatement Andy noted that Gallipoli was ‘from a military point of view, not the most successful campaign in the world’. The ALH, a clear victory, won in a close finish just ahead of Gallipoli as a production choice.

We were fairly sure that we had an Australian market that would cover development costs, so even if it only sold in Australia and nowhere else in the world, it wouldn’t lose money. The nice surprise for us was how well it did outside of Australia. It did very well in the US, exceptionally well in other Commonwealth countries, UK, Canada and New Zealand. It just got bigger and bigger.

Although the ALH range is not finished, it may well be scaled back to accommodate an ANZAC range which will begin before the end of the year. The question of Kokoda figures was given its yearly airing and again any hope of them being produced is limited by the fact that for all its iconic status in Australia, the campaign is little known overseas. Andy did suggest that he might venture into Burma and if that were to eventuate, Kokoda Australians would be a near certainty. It is not on the cards in the near future. The previous forays into the Pacific War were not failures as such but for each US Marine sold, K&C could have sold five Normandy figures.

Andy then answered some questions :

1) Any plans to do Sikh/Indian WWI figures as had a large volunteer army ? - Andy mentioned some already produced in North Africa and Sons of Empire series and will look into possibility of doing some for WWI.

2) Will K&C consider doing some half size bags like the previous Christmas bags but without the snow ? - Will ask Helen to look into it.

3) Any plans for siege equipment for the Medieval series ? - Not at this time. More rank and file planned.

4) Any plans to releases the number of items produced in the past ? - Probably not as would help competitors. Mentioned best selling tank was the Wittmann Tiger with 2,000 sold.

5) Any plans for some Australian / WW2 personaility figures ? - Yes. Couple of figures discussed.

6) What subjects does Andy like ? - Likes the Dunkirk, Malaya/Burma and Bomber Command campaigns.

7) Any plans to do early WW2 Polish Army in defence of Poland ? - No.

There were more questions than this but these are the ones not covered in main write up above.

Still no love for the Poles

 

[OldDragon]

Still no love for the Poles

... so we keep pressing with the charge. {sm2}

Bests
OD

 

[larso]

"... so we keep pressing with the charge."

Yes, it still has some 'legs' he said. It seemed to me that it could lead collectors to the coming Gallipoli range and maybe be replaced by it. Personally I'd like to see an extensive Gallipoli range over 3 - 4 years and that in time be replaced by something for the WW2 jungle fighting. If Andy does Burma, the Japanese there would be ready made opponents for some Kokoda Australians!

 

[Fitzgibbon]

Still no love for the Poles

Certain it was an economlc choice and not moral...Poland has been an integral player in European history for oh-so-long as many are aware. Would like some Napoleonic Polish infantry :salute::

 

[waynepoo]

Certain it was an economlc choice and not moral...Poland has been an integral player in European history for oh-so-long as many are aware. Would like some Napoleonic Polish infantry :salute::

Yes indeed, would they sell three hundred of them to cover the costs of development? I wonder?
Wayne.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Yes indeed, would they sell three hundred of them to cover the costs of development? I wonder?
Wayne.

It's not 300.
It's 300 per figure and there has to be a series of figures to be collectable. At 10 figures that's 3000 pieces.

And I do not agree. If the Light Horse sell so well, I would expect a Polish series of 5 + 5 pieces would sell like Russians and better than some of the other several fringe series K&C has already made

Terry

 

[waynepoo]

It's not 300.
It's 300 per figure and there has to be a series of figures to be collectable. At 10 figures that's 3000 pieces.

And I do not agree. If the Light Horse sell so well, I would expect a Polish series of 5 + 5 pieces would sell like Russians and better than some of the other several fringe series K&C has already made

Terry

There is not much chance of there being a Polish series, there appear to be many more potential better sellers ahead of them.
Wayne.

 

[wayne556517]

WOW fellas looks like a great time had by all and a brilliant place for a feed and some music and dancing ^&grin.
Let me guess you ruined the night by serving XXXX........................{eek3}^&grin^&grin

 

[larso]

Yes XXXX Gold!!! But also Crown Lager and that other Mid???? The spirits seemed to be popular on Andy's table!

 

[waynepoo]

WOW fellas looks like a great time had by all and a brilliant place for a feed and some music and dancing ^&grin.
Let me guess you ruined the night by serving XXXX........................{eek3}^&grin^&grin

Now you have to come over next dinner and put your beer (so called) to the test, plus we will need someone to sort out the chops and snags at the sizzle. I dare you...........^&grin:wink2:
Wayne.

 

[wayne556517]

Yes XXXX Gold!!! But also Crown Lager and that other Mid???? The spirits seemed to be popular on Andy's table!

Would be like drinking water..............{sm4}