Britains Royal Coach Soldier Pac (1 Viewer)

[johnnybach]

Hi JB,

Thanks for that drawbar pic. Looks doable if I can figure out how it connects to that front pair of wheels.

I attach a pic of the two wire clips, and will probably sculpt another wire clip. A pic shows further minor modifications done to the horse as well, this time to the left back leg by lifting it a little and turning down the hoof> It hink that this is more attractive and will continue to do more.

Rgds Victor

I think that I will be doing something similar with a draw-bar too. My set is back home in England at the moment - and I'm not - so will be taking a closer look at it when I get back soon. I like what you are doing to the horses legs - as I think they do look a bit fragile - with rather tiny original hooves on the Soldier-Pac castings. I'm currently thinking of putting my Gold State Coach on bases in pairs - or even two sets of four perhaps - to give them some stability. A big set with loose horses is a nightmare to move - as I found out when trying to move a Britains Horse Artillery piece once!

As to the draw-bar - I read this recently: ( In The Royal Mews: Buckingham Palace, 1993 - Pitkin Souvenir Guides).

" Among the many minor features are the driver's footboard ( there was once a driver on a box - which was removed to improve visibility for occupants) in the shape of a large scallop shell ornamented with a bunch of reeds; the pole, representing a bundle of lances: the splinter bar composed of a rich moulding issuing from beneath a large voluted shell with each end terminating in a dolphin's head."

Does that help? JB

 

[johnnybach]

Just found this 10 minute clip on the History of The Gold State Coach. Well worth a look if you are interested. jb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qEPi-Bp4zR4#t=1s

 

[thebritfarmer]

This may help. just some wire traces attached to the drawbar. I think the early version they just slotted through. The "newer" ones were soldered.

 

[thebritfarmer]

as here

 

[johnnybach]

Cheers for that pic Scott. I'm probably using the wrong term for a central bar that runs from the centre-front of the REAL Coach up between the first pair of horses - to which they are attached. It may be called a Splinter Bar ( I'm not sure). Britains didn't supply one - as their Coach is a much simplified model of the real thing.

Victor and I are trying to get to a slightly more detailed version of the real thing. I will be restoring a Britains Coach - and will try to include this "bar" (whatever it's called) - and Vic is trying to do something similar with his "Soldier-Pac" version - NEITHER of which had this part of the equipment. Both of us will have to fabricate one. We have been chatting here - and by PM - so sorry if I caused any confusion.

Thanks again for any pics though - as they are so useful, to check out how things were originally done. If we get stuck on any more - please feel free to jump in with any pics or info - as we're both learning about the Coach, Horses, and Personnel involved. Hope you enjoy our respective journeys with this subject - which looks like it will run on for quite a while. jb

 

[thebritfarmer]

Ah okay I got you now. I thought that is what you were talking about to be honest but knew that Britains didn't make one so thought maybe they aren't talking about that. If I find any piccies I will add them.

 

[blaster]

Hi All,

On this bar thing, if it was essential to driving the statecoach, how come it is lying on the ground beneth the coach when the static display shows the coach being fully rigged and drawn? Grateful for any answers...

I did a bit more to ALL the horse feet, hooves, fetlocks etc. There is more extensive work done than these preliminary pics show. As the mtd horses had to be improved, the unmounted horses also had to be worked upon to balance the look on all the hooves. My technique is to model the hoof first, shape and file it, then add fetlocks later.

I also worked on improving the heads of the jockeys. Toying with the idea of adding wigs. In progress shots. Rgds Victor

 

[johnnybach]

Draw bar - I'm guessing that it's easier to manipulate the Coach in and out of the display area with it off - as I've read that there's less than an inch between the four ton Coach and the doorway when it goes in and out! So....once it's in - why fit it back on - if it has to come off again to take it out? That's my guess anyway.

I think I'm going to put a draw-bar on my Coach - just because I know it's there. I will either fabricate one - or see whether a piece from a Britains GS Wagon will do the job. I know where I can get one of those.

I like what you are doing to the thin legs and smallish hooves - they look far more robust and more realistic already.

Wigs. I know that you have plenty of pics for these on the postillion riders. here's another for your collection. jb

 

[blaster]

Hi JB,

Thanks for the wig pics - rather shortish with side burns?
How come there are two types of mtd chaps? The top hat is intriguing but this seems to suggest that I have to model extra figs as outridders? You wouldn't be trying to lure me to do an even more elaborate set-piece now, would you...?

What about moustaches? They seem clean shaven but the castings that I have suggest a moustache on my postillions.

Rgds V

 

[johnnybach]

Hi JB,

Thanks for the wig pics - rather shortish with side burns?
How come there are two types of mtd chaps? The top hat is intriguing but this seems to suggest that I have to model extra figs as outridders? You wouldn't be trying to lure me to do an even more elaborate set-piece now, would you...?

What about moustaches? They seem clean shaven but the castings that I have suggest a moustache on my postillions.

Rgds V

Hi Victor - What you have to remember is that you are doing a model of just ONE Coach. The Gold Sate Coach - to give it it's formal title. The Royal Collection of coaches and carriages is large - and other coaches and carriages demand other liveries - and that's what you are seeing with some of these pics. For example, Ascot Day demands quite different liveries to be worn than on other occasions. Your Pitkin book shows you some examples of these. The Mary Stewart-Wilson book is much more comprehensive - and if you can't get hold of one - just ask me for specific things - and I may be able to help.

Hair-styles. I think what you needed to do - is set a date for when YOUR Coach is going to be depicted. The Coach was built in 1762 - and has gone through many changes in its time. The driver's box was removed (around 1902) - and driven by postillions from then on. Brakes were added at the same time - even interior lighting was introduced to better see the occupants (for 1953). During all of those years, subtle costume changes took place - and even hair-styles changed. So....what I think you need to do - is set a date for WHEN your Coach is going to be driving along.( I think that you've already done that - with your choice of occupants). What you need to do now, therefore - is study pictures and drawings of that date - and then your attendants, postillions, Yeomen etcetera - will need to be painted accordingly. Moustaches/ side-burns etc., were far more prevalent then - so yours may reflect that.

My Coach is going to be set in 1953 - with HM QEII in occupation - so mine will be a bit different to yours. I will also try for the attendants who accompanied the Coach ( over time - Rome wasn't built in a day). Watch out for the coloured ribbons platted into the horses manes. (Only used for very special occasions). They differ according to WHEN the Coach was used. For the Silver Jubilee in 1977 - they were Silver - as this was the Sovereign's choice. Back in 1762 - they were blue.

Fortunately for us both - they haven't changed for Coronations since the Eighteenth Century - and were red - see this first-day postage cover, for example.

As usual - best of luck with it - I'm looking forward to being re-united with mine later this month - when I may be able to get hold of my missing horses - and make a start. jb

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Mike. I don't think so - looks more like they are cleaning them off. Horses have a nasty habit of stepping in stuff they shouldn't sometimes: indeed - they sometimes step in their own "stuff". Nice picture of "The Glass Coach" though, with some different dress tunics of the Coachmen - as referred to earlier. This Coach is also sometimes referred to as "The Wedding Coach" around the Royal Mews - as it is often used for that purpose - due to the high visibility of the occupants inside - it gives good opportunities to see the bride. The Pricess Royal, Princess of Wales and Duchess of York all drove in it to their weddings. At least - the Coach is still around!

Back to the hooves - below is a picture of one of The Windsor Greys. (So called NOT because they are a specific breed - but refers to when King Edward VIII had them moved from Windsor to the Royal Mews in 1936). Note the hooves of the Grey are a brownish'yellowish shade. Note also in the next picture down, that a brown horse with white socks on the rear feet - also has a similar colouring on the hooves. I am actually indebted to Trooper, for pointing this feature out to me - as I was unaware of this phenomenon until quite recently. All horses with pale colour legs - or socks - will have pale coloured hooves. Handy to know that - if you're a painter. Your picture of the Glass Coach shows the rear hooves of a pair of Greys - with exactly the same colour hooves. It's just a natural colour Mike - and not gilding. jb (Both pictures extracted from The Royal Mews, 1991, by Mary Stewart-Wilson)

 

[thebritfarmer]

I believe they are just applying hoof oil to make them shine and protect the hoof.

 

[johnnybach]

As an amateur painter - I was intrigued - so I looke it up.

Try this:

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Hoof-Oil

Happy brushing.................jb

 

[blaster]

Hi All,

Hmm, If I am not careful, I can see a downward spiral into a permanent project, with this mass of info.....

Seriously, thanks all for your gracious and fantastic visual inputs.

I worked late into the night resculpting all the hooves and feet. That pic of the Hanoverian gelding is just fabulous. But that harness is not exactly the same one as the ex-Britain's castings suggest.

JB, thanks for the clarity on dress regulation changes with period which completely slipped my mind. I'll recheck photos of around 1900 for period feel, wigs, moustaches etc. What I am trying to do is to balance the additional detail with the toy soldier style as much as is possible. Definitely will gloss the whole thing. I intend to mount it permanently on a long wooden base to minimise damage. I'll post some pics in a few days.

Rgds Victor

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Victor. I know the feeling with projects like this. Where do you stop?

I can't give you a definitive answer to that question - you will have to decide for yourself. For my own project - I haven't decided either. It will probably be a rolling project. Once I finish the Coach and horses - then the Attendants might come into play. Once those are found, purchased and painted - who knows where that might lead? Household Cavalry Escorts? Marching bands? Street liners? - the list could go on...............

I think you are very much like me - on the aspect of detail. There is a balance to be struck when making things up in Glossy Toy Soldier style - but some details ARE important - and I always try to strike that balance. That's why I like to collect as many pictures as I can around a project before I start. I also take as my eventual aim - the old Britains hollowcast models - sometimes described as "Best Britains", when they were an old British Company. These were ordered by some customers as "Specials" - where they specified additional detailing and colours to be used - and Britains obliged - at an increased price. Now and again some of these come back onto the market - and they always go for high prices - and mostly they still look outstanding.

As to the horses - yes - that is NOT the tack used on the Gold Sate Coach. Remember - that book is about the WHOLE collection of Coaches and carriages kept at the Royal Mews. I was using it to explain to Mike the colour of the hooves only - and not suggesting anything else - glad you spotted that.

Good idea to mount the whole thing on a base - I'm thinking along those lines too. Look forward to seeing your progress. jb

 

[blaster]

Hi JB,

Well, you ve got me started now, havent you...?

I actually have the two books on Britains by James Opie which I had browsed thru. On the state coach, it was issued as set 1475, set 1476 with 18 attendants, 4 beefeaters, 6 footmen and 8outriders, plus 1 for the back of the coach as you mentioned. I also realised that my other coach from Soldier Pac must be the state landau, also issued by Britains.
I did contact Giles of Dorset soldiers about additional castings and, who knows...

Anyway, I did more work ( a lot of work) on further reshaping the horses legs and it looks promising. Will post pics soon.

Rgds V

 

[johnnybach]

Well that's good - shame to have two superb models languishing in some dusty cardboard box - and never seeing the light of day isn't it? I will look forward to seeing them both develop in the future ( when time and the inclination permits). I don't have those two books you mention - so IF you could post the odd pic occasionally - that would be quite useful for me and my future projects too.

I do have also, in my stash, a casting of "The Ivory Mounted Phaeton" ( from RP World Models), carriage to do at some point in the future - so watch out for that one too, probably after Xmas. (This is the one that QEII now uses for Trooping the Colour - and is also in the Royal Collection), pictured below:

- and this is the model (note the wig on the postillion driver):

As there is less to do with this one - it shouldn't take that long to complete.

Giles - of Dorset Soldiers is a very helpful chap - and will always try to help out with a part - or a repair. It's the price of postage that hurts the most!

Are you having problems with your camera????:wink2: Cheers for now Victor - johnnybach

 

[blaster]

Here are a few scans taken from Opies giant book on Britains:-

Enjoy! Rgds Victor

 

[blaster]

These are some in-progress shots of 4 of the horses, showing extensive work being done on those small hooves.
Following sculpting and reshaping with putty, I undercoat lightly in grey primer to highlight any defects and then sculpt some more. A final undercoat of white is added.

Rgds Victor

 

[blaster]

Two more pics. At this magnification, you can see that more sanding and work needs to be done to smooth out the substantial conversions. Rgds Victor