Civility on the Forum (2 Viewers)

What worries me about the forum now is it going back to the bad old days, when you can't voice your opinion on the hobby , any other hobby you could talk about any brand talk about the good the bad and the ugly but not on this forum and it down to the members and not the mods ,people may say they have not got a problem with people finding problem with there favorite brand but it must or we would not have all this childish stuff going on my brand better than your, don't forget these companies sell there items as detailed toy soldiers and for the price there selling they should be right . So people need to respect people opinion witch I thought was what the forum about .


Yeah but I don't think we should overplay this either. How often are there posts in which someone actually states 'Brand x is far better than brand v' .Does it happen like that, no it doesn't really does it. I think its popular to try and build up the hype between different companies and make out there is some over dramatic war going on between them, a lot of that is pretty childish imagination in my view. I have friends who collect FL who don't buy K&C, does it mean we are at war on the forum, of course not.

You are of course quite right in wanting the free speech to be able to complain about something without being slated for it, its what a free forum should be about. However you have to look at the other side of the free speech coin too Neil. It would be naive to think there are not some personal agendas towards certain companies going on. So say for instance you post your complaint about your 262, you are 100% perfectly entitled to do this. But then along comes Mr X Mr Y and Mr Z who everybody on the forum with more than eleven brain cells knows have a grudge/agenda going on. They then turn the thread into a bitter , nasty personal affair ruining the enjoyment for others. That is when responsible posters such as yourself should say something like ' hang on, this is my thread in which I'm complaining about my 262, not an anti K&C thread, take it somewhere else' . If you just agree or congratulate such posts you should probably have to expect the thread to go downhill pretty quick. Its up to every member of this forum to see free speech thrive and antagonistic posts decline, because threads without antagonism is where ultimately your genuine concerns can be raised and discussed in an atmosphere not akin to a nursery school.

Just my tuppence worth Neil:)

Rob
 
Yeah but I don't think we should overplay this either. How often are there posts in which someone actually states 'Brand x is far better than brand v' .Does it happen like that, no it doesn't really does it. I think its popular to try and build up the hype between different companies and make out there is some over dramatic war going on between them, a lot of that is pretty childish imagination in my view. I have friends who collect FL who don't buy K&C, does it mean we are at war on the forum, of course not.

You are of course quite right in wanting the free speech to be able to complain about something without being slated for it, its what a free forum should be about. However you have to look at the other side of the free speech coin too Neil. It would be naive to think there are not some personal agendas towards certain companies going on. So say for instance you post your complaint about your 262, you are 100% perfectly entitled to do this. But then along comes Mr X Mr Y and Mr Z who everybody on the forum with more than eleven brain cells knows have a grudge/agenda going on. They then turn the thread into a bitter , nasty personal affair ruining the enjoyment for others. That is when responsible posters such as yourself should say something like ' hang on, this is my thread in which I'm complaining about my 262, not an anti K&C thread, take it somewhere else' . If you just agree or congratulate such posts you should probably have to expect the thread to go downhill pretty quick. Its up to every member of this forum to see free speech thrive and antagonistic posts decline, because threads without antagonism is where ultimately your genuine concerns can be raised and discussed in an atmosphere not akin to a nursery school.

Rob
Fair point Rob .
 
I have read this with sort of interest but, like a while back about the fun issue on the forum and, all the usual suspect nonsense I have to say this thread is the same. Its all the same people saying what should or should not be done, calls for more mods and act in this way or that. I note thats its always the same people who are always also at the heart of the issue. Many who are calling for civility are guilty of some of the worst things seen on the forum, threads hi jacked, arguments started, and quick to jump in with the uncivil comments. Its very easy, which, has been done, to blame a select few but, even when the alleged few are either removed from conversations or, threads etc incivility still happens.

I agree with George that forums bring out strong willed and strong minded people and, that conflict however trivial and minor will happen. What makes me laugh is the double standards held by some who are as guilty as everyone else (with the exception of one poster who is polite in the extreme). this thread is a waste of time really and, should have been, if it had to be, started by a Mod or the owners if they believe there is an issue.

What I wonder is when will people realise that its the group as a whole and, not a few and, accept that all are as guilty of all of the issues, they bemoan for brownie points on threads like this. Just take a breath all of you guys and have a look back over the years and see how many of the comments are exactly the same and, the arguments are the same and, the people at it are exactly the same. I don't diminsih my role as I say it how I feel and, thats who I am but, I think the selective amnesia from some is startling.
Mitch
 
Mitch,
There is much in your thread I could comment on. Main one would be if this thread is such a waste of time why are you participating in it ? Half way through you indicated there were some good posts so I guess it became a waste of time when you disagreed with something later on.

However I would be most interested to know how the "brownie points" works. I am guessing the opposite of "brownies" is deletions/infractions/suspensions/expulsions and whilst I have had some of those I regret to say a "brownie" has never appeared.

Regards
Brett
 
I've been on the forum for many years and know Brad personally, if he feels the need to start a thread like this there is something in it and everyone should reflect.
 
Thread kinda bs,anybody remember how I was beat up on about stateing facts about a lovely parade that we have in our fine city and the violence associated with it,didn't fit some people's agendas,so they ripped into me,and frankly none commenting know anything about the parade or violence first hand,so if one of the many say whatever ya want,the rest pipe down.
In other news the violence at st paddys day parade was ,uh,um....nothing
On a side note,remember,we are grown men,collecting toys
Chuck
 
Brett..

There are good points raised here from Wayne and Chris to name but a few. Its not about people agreeing with me or not. Its about time you realise that I don't care if people disagree with me. Its about double standards that I raise here. many are guilty of doing exactly what is being said here as wrong. Lets face it, Brad, as Panda brings him up, has caused his fair share of rucks and spoiled threads with his comments so, I don't see the need for reflection on his words really. Thats not a dig at him just a comment as its his thread and what has just been written about him.

I would have viewed the thread differently had it been Wadepat as he conducts himself with exemplory conduct and politeness from what I have seen since I joined and, read back through past threads. I post a thought, you have posted differently thats debate and, thats what happens especially on a internet forum. I have seen many comments ruled as wrong when said by certain people but, allowed by others but, I comment upon the fact that its a bit galling to read people procrastinate about how things should be when they are happy to get stuck in with regularity or, start the rucks themselves

No more no less and, just shooting the breeze as I see it
Mitch


Mitch,
There is much in your thread I could comment on. Main one would be if this thread is such a waste of time why are you participating in it ? Half way through you indicated there were some good posts so I guess it became a waste of time when you disagreed with something later on.

However I would be most interested to know how the "brownie points" works. I am guessing the opposite of "brownies" is deletions/infractions/suspensions/expulsions and whilst I have had some of those I regret to say a "brownie" has never appeared.

Regards
Brett
 
What worries me about the forum now is it going back to the bad old days, when you can't voice your opinion on the hobby , any other hobby you could talk about any brand talk about the good the bad and the ugly but not on this forum and it down to the members and not the mods ,people may say they have not got a problem with people finding problem with there favorite brand but it must or we would not have all this childish stuff going on my brand better than your, don't forget these companies sell there items as detailed toy soldiers and for the price there selling they should be right . So people need to respect people opinion witch I thought was what the forum about .


Agree 100%; God forbid anyone say a negative thing about manufacturer X or Y's or Z's products or else you'll be called out/insulted/accused of having an agenda/etc/etc.

I will continue to comment positively on products I view as good and negatively on products I view as bad and if there are those who can't handle the latter, that is their problem, not mine.

I also love the comments that are throw around on the forum like you know what in a zoo, but if said parties were face to face, the tone and comments would be 180 degrees in the other direction.

Makes me laugh to be honest, heros from behind a computer screen, zeros when face to face.
 
I've been on the forum for many years and know Brad personally, if he feels the need to start a thread like this there is something in it and everyone should reflect.

Thank you Kevin.

I never said I was blameless but having been blameworthy in the past as well as a former moderator, it's allowed me to notice some things that I felt I wanted to mention. Nothing like a reformed smoker, so to speak. I think that some of us sometimes can't see the forest from the trees. I also think it's good to have this discussion from time to time. Even if many of pooh pooh it, if we are more aware and try to be civil to one another, then a thread like this will have served its purpose.

Brad
 
Mitch,
If I remember correctly the posts/thread by Brad to which you refer were in DEC 2010 (ie the LAH Brownshirts
thread). I am pretty sure we were on the same "side" in that one as I did disagree with Brad there and told him so.
Nevertheless one can totally understand his strong views. However it has been fairly obvious since then that Brad
has restrained himself from participating in any further such threads.

In view of that I do not find anything wrong with the post that started thsi thread. The fact he has stayed off those
subjects indicates to me that he is keeping quiet, about something in which he strongly believes, in order to be civil
to those who like to display and discuss LAH matters.

So in my mind a pretty good example of somebody holding back to be civil towards others.

Regards
Brett
 
Brett...

As I said I would not have mentioned Brad but for, Panda doing so. I am not going to go down the line of highlighting one poster making comments that could be deemed as not civil. I still don't think this forum is really not a civil place apart from a few comments regarding violence and, some comments about dead troops I think its a calm place. Just depends on what you deem as not calm.
Mitch

Mitch,
If I remember correctly the posts/thread by Brad to which you refer were in DEC 2010 (ie the LAH Brownshirts
thread). I am pretty sure we were on the same "side" in that one as I did disagree with Brad there and told him so.
Nevertheless one can totally understand his strong views. However it has been fairly obvious since then that Brad
has restrained himself from participating in any further such threads.

In view of that I do not find anything wrong with the post that started thsi thread. The fact he has stayed off those
subjects indicates to me that he is keeping quiet, about something in which he strongly believes, in order to be civil
to those who like to display and discuss LAH matters.

So in my mind a pretty good example of somebody holding back to be civil towards others.

Regards
Brett
 
Thread kinda bs,anybody remember how I was beat up on about stateing facts about a lovely parade that we have in our fine city and the violence associated with it,didn't fit some people's agendas,so they ripped into me,and frankly none commenting know anything about the parade or violence first hand,so if one of the many say whatever ya want,the rest pipe down.
In other news the violence at st paddys day parade was ,uh,um....nothing
On a side note,remember,we are grown men,collecting toys
Chuck

Chuck

I don't think I was ever aware of this. Is this 'ripping into me' why you don't post as much as you did in years gone by? If so this is a real shame.

I hope I have never done this, but I was guilty of some more implied adult language a few years ago in what I felt was great banter and a 'live' feel to the forum. I used to log on after work and feel in contact with friends around the globe and have good craik. I don't feel this happens much anymore. I stopped posting as much due to only one or two people, who made a lot of an opinion on only one topic as I recall, but with no insight into the impact of a how frequent, effectively monosyllabic, utterances stiffle the interest of others.

A few years ago Shannon and I were discussing the forum and she reminded me that kids were on it - as everyone I knew on it was an old kid (no ageism etc intended in this remark), it had honestly not occured to me, another factor to be included in this debate. I don't think this should stop the banter in principle though, just moderate the language.


Thank you Kevin.

I never said I was blameless but having been blameworthy in the past as well as a former moderator, it's allowed me to notice some things that I felt I wanted to mention. Nothing like a reformed smoker, so to speak. I think that some of us sometimes can't see the forest from the trees. I also think it's good to have this discussion from time to time. Even if many of pooh pooh it, if we are more aware and try to be civil to one another, then a thread like this will have served its purpose.

Brad

Brad, you are welcome, I call it as I see it.
 
Yeah but I don't think we should overplay this either. How often are there posts in which someone actually states 'Brand x is far better than brand v' .Does it happen like that, no it doesn't really does it. I think its popular to try and build up the hype between different companies and make out there is some over dramatic war going on between them, a lot of that is pretty childish imagination in my view. I have friends who collect FL who don't buy K&C, does it mean we are at war on the forum, of course not.

You are of course quite right in wanting the free speech to be able to complain about something without being slated for it, its what a free forum should be about. However you have to look at the other side of the free speech coin too Neil. It would be naive to think there are not some personal agendas towards certain companies going on. So say for instance you post your complaint about your 262, you are 100% perfectly entitled to do this. But then along comes Mr X Mr Y and Mr Z who everybody on the forum with more than eleven brain cells knows have a grudge/agenda going on. They then turn the thread into a bitter , nasty personal affair ruining the enjoyment for others. That is when responsible posters such as yourself should say something like ' hang on, this is my thread in which I'm complaining about my 262, not an anti K&C thread, take it somewhere else' . If you just agree or congratulate such posts you should probably have to expect the thread to go downhill pretty quick. Its up to every member of this forum to see free speech thrive and antagonistic posts decline, because threads without antagonism is where ultimately your genuine concerns can be raised and discussed in an atmosphere not akin to a nursery school.

Just my tuppence worth Neil:)

Rob

I agree - good post. There is a difference between critquing products based on facts and clearly stated personal preferences as opposed to just cheering a company and slogging others. There are differences between companies in terms of sculpting, painting style, level of detail, scale and materials and there are also price differences. The companies all seem to be selling product so there are collectors who choose to by from one or more of them. They have their reasons to buy. Telling people they are wasting their money by buying crap from company X is like telling a collector he is a fool for buying that product. It's bound to get a bad response.

Terry
 
Almost every long termer on this forum has likely said something they later regretted. It's part of being human and having a passion for the hobby. It has happened and will continue to happen so long as people continue to post. Frankly, if everyone here were milk toast posters doing nothing other than proclaiming every new release the greatest in history and wishing one another a happy birthday it would become a very boring and uninformative forum. I like to hear everyone's opinion including those that disagree with me. Others do not and find disagreement and contradiction itself to be "uncivil" no matter how politely expressed. That's unfortunate in my opinion but so it goes. Anyone who spends more than 3 seconds of their life worrying about the tone of a toy soldier forum has too much time on their hands. Particularly when we can be doing other important things like watching football!
 
Almost every long termer on this forum has likely said something they later regretted. It's part of being human and having a passion for the hobby. It has happened and will continue to happen so long as people continue to post. Frankly, if everyone here were milk toast posters doing nothing other than proclaiming every new release the greatest in history and wishing one another a happy birthday it would become a very boring and uninformative forum. I like to hear everyone's opinion including those that disagree with me. Others do not and find disagreement and contradiction itself to be "uncivil" no matter how politely expressed. That's unfortunate in my opinion but so it goes. Anyone who spends more than 3 seconds of their life worrying about the tone of a toy soldier forum has too much time on their hands. Particularly when we can be doing other important things like watching football!

Agree 100%.
 
Is not BSP the poster child for this thread. I could make statements that I know to be the absolute truth....and this thread would explode into controversy. Would you believe if you knew me personally that I am considered to be a peaceful non combative person.

Getting involved deep in this hobby was the worse thing we ever did. We are backing away from the way we do things and we are just going to do our work. Because the way we have been doing things cant work. But the reason it cant work reflects all that has been discussed so far on this thread.

There is business behind this hobby, and as they say money is the root of all evil........and yes there is passion...but to take the passion to far becomes childish. There is ego, jealousy and there are men. I know all about men having dealt with 500 of them on the Fire Dept I worked for. And all of that leads to non civility on the forum. Alex
 
There is the case that a reply won't change the mind or help the original poster but may help other readers.
 
Hey Kevin,you are one of the few that can "rip" into me whenever ya like.and yes,sometimes just not worth the aggregation of a few to post as much as you normally would.hope all is going well with your health and if you don't head over this way soon I may bring the crew over and knock on your door,lol.
Chuck
 
Yeah but I don't think we should overplay this either. How often are there posts in which someone actually states 'Brand x is far better than brand v' .Does it happen like that, no it doesn't really does it. I think its popular to try and build up the hype between different companies and make out there is some over dramatic war going on between them, a lot of that is pretty childish imagination in my view. I have friends who collect FL who don't buy K&C, does it mean we are at war on the forum, of course not.

You are of course quite right in wanting the free speech to be able to complain about something without being slated for it, its what a free forum should be about. However you have to look at the other side of the free speech coin too Neil. It would be naive to think there are not some personal agendas towards certain companies going on. So say for instance you post your complaint about your 262, you are 100% perfectly entitled to do this. But then along comes Mr X Mr Y and Mr Z who everybody on the forum with more than eleven brain cells knows have a grudge/agenda going on. They then turn the thread into a bitter , nasty personal affair ruining the enjoyment for others. That is when responsible posters such as yourself should say something like ' hang on, this is my thread in which I'm complaining about my 262, not an anti K&C thread, take it somewhere else' . If you just agree or congratulate such posts you should probably have to expect the thread to go downhill pretty quick. Its up to every member of this forum to see free speech thrive and antagonistic posts decline, because threads without antagonism is where ultimately your genuine concerns can be raised and discussed in an atmosphere not akin to a nursery school.

Just my tuppence worth Neil:)

Rob
I think the problem is as well Rob what may be antagonistic post to you maybe not to others . I find the forum very informative on what new stuff coming out and is my only change to see a item before buying , so different opinion help me make my mind instead of all these ra ra threads .just think people should not take it so.personal and if they do find a post rude take it up with mods . I agree that members should not ruin the hobby for other and it something I've taken on bored.
 
I hope when I am old and ill that I hang onto to life with the tenacity of this thread!
 

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