Competition for the MG-34 Market (1 Viewer)

[Mitch]

Frank...

Thank you for the response. I was, as said, not looking too the paint comparison as they are different but, its always nice when there are two sets similar on the current market. One, from a relatively new manufacturer and, one from what many consider to be the best on the market that allows the opportunity to compare.

I have looked at the pictures quite closely and IMO they both look highly detailed and very accurate and, as you say when more pictures become available or. the sets are released will give a better chance to address the crux of this thread more easily.
Mitch

 

[Gebhard]

I have looked at the pictures quite closely and IMO they both look highly detailed and very accurate and, as you say when more pictures become available or. the sets are released will give a better chance to address the crux of this thread more easily.
Mitch[/QUOTE]

Hi Mitch,
Here are some photo's that may better help collectors . The TG are very good IMO but I have a real problem with the choice of Camo patterns these are clearly SS troops but the one on the left is wearing Tan & Water pattern and the one on the right is wearing Splinter and neither of these patterns were ever issued to SS troops . This is IMO not "very accurate" . Just for the record I have been collecting WWII longer then Napoleonics and collecting original Camo for over 30 years . I also do not make one cent off the sale of Toy Soldiers from any Manufacture nor do I receive freebies.... just for full disclosure . I know I'm a bit of a stickler for camo and that most would not notice or care , but in this day and age there are so many reference books on the subject it just hard for me to over look . This is not a bait just an observation , I just want for my collection the most Highly detailed ,historically accurate best painted and sculpted figures available whomever makes em All the best Gebhard

 

[Vezzolf]

TG MG-34 appears to be very well done.......I like what they have done and it will please many collectors who like TG......But does not compare to the First Legion MG-34......First Legion is still the most accurate, best painted/detailed WWII product out there....

 

[Mitch]

Gebhard...

Fully understand what your saying about the painting which, is why I brought up sculpt quality as there is a difference in painting styles for sure and, one cannot get a true visual comparison by addressing feldgrau to winter troops. The camo troops you mention I have also noticed but, I may be wrong the lying spotters officer cap looks to be Luftwaffe markings????. though it is hard to see in the pictures

I don't think I understand the ''I don't get ''freebies'' et al as neither do I and, don't think I have seen that raised as an argument against critique of products in the hobby.

I stated I found it interesting that two different manufacturers had at similar times released the same sets and, thought it would be interesting to address the sculpts which, some have done without all the IMO nonsense of flagwaving for the comparative sections.

I have put forward critique of every manufacturer when I see something which, I believe is wrong and, have done so previously with FL in relation to their Panzer III but, I own FL products so, I believe I can as long as its just not the usual attack for no reason other than just wanting to annoy their collector base.
Thanks for the reply
Mitch

 

[Gebhard]

Gebhard...

Fully understand what your saying about the painting which, is why I brought up sculpt quality as there is a difference in painting styles for sure and, one cannot get a true visual comparison by addressing feldgrau to winter troops. The camo troops you mention I have also noticed but, I may be wrong the lying spotters officer cap looks to be Luftwaffe markings????. though it is hard to see in the pictures

I don't think I understand the ''I don't get ''freebies'' et al as neither do I and, don't think I have seen that raised as an argument against critique of products in the hobby.

I stated I found it interesting that two different manufacturers had at similar times released the same sets and, thought it would be interesting to address the sculpts which, some have done without all the IMO nonsense of flagwaving for the comparative sections.

I have put forward critique of every manufacturer when I see something which, I believe is wrong and, have done so previously with FL in relation to their Panzer III but, I own FL products so, I believe I can as long as its just not the usual attack for no reason other than just wanting to annoy their collector base.
Thanks for the reply
Mitch

Hi Mitch ,
I did not mention the lying figure as I was not sure that would be part of the set ,but as you mention it is clear by the eagle on his cap he is meant to be a Luft figure. He is wearing what appears to be Waffen SS Pattern 44 dot which is only compounds the problem with the inaccuracy in the painting of these nicely sculpted figures. The two man gun crew clearly have the SS decal on their Helms so I will still offer up my comments from my last post .

My comment about Freebies , is meant to show that I do not get Free sets from any manufacture or posters or any such things . For me as a collector its hard to get a true sense of other collectors true opinions because so many I find are e-bay dealers or by limited editions to sit on them and then only to sell them latter at a mark up either to finance their hobby or just to make a buck . I find nothing wrong with either , I just think it would be more helpful to collectors if this info was offered up front . I would be more interested in opinions from collectors with no financial interest in the propping up of one manufacture up over another . This is not directed at you as I don't know if the shoe fits or not .
Please fell free to offer up critiques of any product , as some of the companies actually listen and are interested in improving .
All the best gebhard

 

[debrito]

I have only seen low res pictures of both sets so I will reserve judgement on comparing the sculpting. That said in the low res pictures I have seen both sculpts look good.

As for painting, there is a bit of apples and oranges going on here with camo being compared to feldgrau. I don't own any Thomas Gunn but based on the pictures I have seen I haven't been overly impressed with the simplified camo or colors used.

To date we have only one WWII camouflage uniform painted by FL (Soviet Amoeba) and in this case I think the result is excellent. The real test of course will be when they do Waffen SS camo with all its complexities.

IMO The machine gun is not the issue here to see who has the best quality, both looks great. For me the painting will makes the different here, TG are too bright and colourful and lacks of weathering and the face still not good enough (previous releases), so by saying that my vote goes 100% to FL.

 

[Mitch]

Gebhard...

The spotter figure does not come with the MG34 team and is just a stand alone add on set. Thanks for the response
Mitch

Hi Mitch ,
I did not mention the lying figure as I was not sure that would be part of the set ,but as you mention it is clear by the eagle on his cap he is meant to be a Luft figure. He is wearing what appears to be Waffen SS Pattern 44 dot which is only compounds the problem with the inaccuracy in the painting of these nicely sculpted figures. The two man gun crew clearly have the SS decal on their Helms so I will still offer up my comments from my last post .

My comment about Freebies , is meant to show that I do not get Free sets from any manufacture or posters or any such things . For me as a collector its hard to get a true sense of other collectors true opinions because so many I find are e-bay dealers or by limited editions to sit on them and then only to sell them latter at a mark up either to finance their hobby or just to make a buck . I find nothing wrong with either , I just think it would be more helpful to collectors if this info was offered up front . I would be more interested in opinions from collectors with no financial interest in the propping up of one manufacture up over another . This is not directed at you as I don't know if the shoe fits or not .
Please fell free to offer up critiques of any product , as some of the companies actually listen and are interested in improving .
All the best gebhard

 

[nmrocks]

TG MG-34 appears to be very well done.......I like what they have done and it will please many collectors who like TG......But does not compare to the First Legion MG-34......First Legion is still the most accurate, best painted/detailed WWII product out there....

Does not compare?!?!?! Really? another rather dismissive statement, I think it would be better if you specified what "detail" makes the FL version so Over the top on this comparison? paint is yet to be seen but I do expect FL to be better on that side as thats what you pay the higher price for.
Ray

 

[sammy719]

Does not compare?!?!?! Really? another rather dismissive statement, I think it would be better if you specified what "detail" makes the FL version so Over the top on this comparison? paint is yet to be seen but I do expect FL to be better on that side as thats what you pay the higher price for.
Ray

Ray, the difference is not only in the painting of First Legion but over quality and detail in the making of the product, I 'm not going to trash T. Gunn they have nice stuff, but again it's about paying a little more to get the better quality of a item, just like when I sold all my Conte stuff after I discovered K&C product, it was a better product for the money, as I think First Legion is hands down the best on the market on sculpting/painting/detail...imho of course, I think you can compare K&C/HB/CS/FIGARTI/T.GUNN all day long against one another for different reasons, but FIRST LEGION is a totally different ballgame by itself, the difference in size, sclupts,paintings etc is so different from those manufacturers mentioned, so all of this about who's MG-34 is better?? to me is not even a issue, Like someone else posted on this thread he would buy multiple T.Gunn sets because it was cheaper, you pay for what you get my friend...Sammy

 

[nmrocks]

Ray, the difference is not only in the painting of First Legion but over quality and detail in the making of the product, I 'm not going to trash T. Gunn they have nice stuff, but again it's about paying a little more to get the better quality of a item, just like when I sold all my Conte stuff after I discovered K&C product, it was a better product for the money, as I think First Legion is hands down the best on the market on sculpting/painting/detail...imho of course, I think you can compare K&C/HB/CS/FIGARTI/T.GUNN all day long against one another for different reasons, but FIRST LEGION is a totally different ballgame by itself, the difference in size, sclupts,paintings etc is so different from those manufacturers mentioned, so all of this about who's MG-34 is better?? to me is not even a issue, Like someone else posted on this thread he would buy multiple T.Gunn sets because it was cheaper, you pay for what you get my friend...Sammy

Sammy,
All fine and good, but as I said in my last post what specifically in the sculpt makes FL so much better, because frankly my uneducated eye doesn't see it?
When i look at the sculpts I look for a natural proportion to the bodies as well as natural stance, then the lay of the clothes, the folds and flow and frankly the TG figures from that stand point look better to me. I also like the helmets better, so please, honestly, Enlighten me??!?!?!
Ray

 

[sammy719]

Sammy,
All fine and good, but as I said in my last post what specifically in the sculpt makes FL so much better, because frankly my uneducated eye doesn't see it?
When i look at the sculpts I look for a natural proportion to the bodies as well as natural stance, then the lay of the clothes, the folds and flow and frankly the TG figures from that stand point look better to me. I also like the helmets better, so please, honestly, Enlighten me??!?!?!
Ray

Ray, it's like this, T.Gunn is a better product then a Conte figure but less then K&C, you cannot see the difference between a WWII soldier of First Legion vs. Gunn?? the painting is 100% different in styles, as well as the scultping, do you own any First Legion stuff?? which I did own some Gunn sets awhile back, like I said Ray, it is two different worlds, now if Aeroart was in this conversation about a WWII set I could understand but it's like comparing a ribeye to a chuck steak (my job plug) both are good steaks but totally different, you mentioned the helmet thing, I think that is a total drawback, t.Gunns germans helmets are so varied in shapes, Am I the only one who see's this?? some helmets look tall, others are short, some are fine, and did you see the size of the Paras hands that just came out on the painted sets?? talk about proportions being wrong, I didn't want to pick out flaws but you asked me, so I take it you are a long time collector of K&C/T.Gunn or whoever else, and there is nothing I can say to make this a fair fight, so you buy what you like I'll buy what I like, and we all live happily ever after...Sammy

 

[Alex]

My 2 cents :

Yes there is a difference in sculpting between manufacturers and even within the range of products offered by any manufacturer. Simple reason : all manufacturers are using many sculptors and all of these guys don't make figures exactly the same way.

I can't compare T gun and FL since I don't own any T gun figures and I can only compare FL to K&C to Figarti to HB to Aeroart and to some custom pieces I do have. FL figures are 'graceful'.. Yes that's the best word I could use to describe them.

Now once your figure has been cast and put together, no matter who was the sculptor, that's when the painting starts and that is what makes a figure or not (of course if the sculpt is bad, you won't rescue the figure but you get my point). And yes FL wins hands down over T gun or any other manufacturers like T gun on that point ... With K&C that I know a lot, you don't get any shadowing whatsoever in the clothes.. only thick ugly black lines.. not realistic at all... And this is just one example ... now if this difference doesn't matter to you or is not worth 50-33=17$ to you, then that's fine ! Let's all be happy !!

Cheers,

Alex

 

[jazzeum]

Let's all be happy !!

Cheers,

Alex

This seems to be singularly good advice. If Sammy, Gebhard, or Frank or anybody for that matter think that the First Legion version is the best, what's wrong with that? And if anybody else thinks the Thomas Gunn version is equal to or better than the First Legion version is, again, what's wrong that. Let's enjoy just what we enjoy without everybody getting their shorts into a knot. Now maybe Frank is a bit exuberant about FL. Yeah, so? I would hope we're all exuberant or happy about what you collect. If I'm not, I'm not collecting it anymore.

Cheers to all,

 

[thebritfarmer]

This seems to be singularly good advice. If Sammy, Gebhard, or Frank or anybody for that matter think that the First Legion version is the best, what's wrong with that? And if anybody else thinks the Thomas Gunn version is equal to or better than the First Legion version is, again, what's wrong that. Let's enjoy just what we enjoy without everybody getting their shorts into a knot. Now maybe Frank is a bit exuberant about FL. Yeah, so? I would hope we're all exuberant or happy about what you collect. If I'm not, I'm not collecting it anymore.

Cheers to all,

Oh if only that could be the case Brad, unfortunately some are not happy unless they are spitting poison and forcing their opinions on others.

 

[jazzeum]

Sad but true Scott

 

[Rob]

This seems to be singularly good advice. If Sammy, Gebhard, or Frank or anybody for that matter think that the First Legion version is the best, what's wrong with that? And if anybody else thinks the Thomas Gunn version is equal to or better than the First Legion version is, again, what's wrong that. Let's enjoy just what we enjoy without everybody getting their shorts into a knot. Now maybe Frank is a bit exuberant about FL. Yeah, so? I would hope we're all exuberant or happy about what you collect. If I'm not, I'm not collecting it anymore.

Cheers to all,

Well said Brad, I have great enthusiasm for what I collect and I am not ashamed of it, its also good to see in other collectors whichever company they collect from,the day the fun and enthusiasm dies is the day I give up.

Rob

 

[churchmouse1]

I primarily collect glossy soldiers, and my only matte soldiers are First Legion AWI and Crusades. I'd collect ACW, but you may have read some of my critique of that line. Furthermore, this is my first day off in a few weeks, so I've had a few beers at lunch. But, I have a question. Why do matte collectors have to be so competitive? On the glossy side of the hobby, we all seem to enjoy each other's collections, but over here everyone seems to argue. On each manufacturer's forum, you have three or four folks who always shout down anyone who questions the manufacturer. For crying out loud, moderators excise the attack posts and the trolls. Since this is First Legion's forum, why does Matt need someone to defend his product? That is his job.

P.S. This is not meant to influence the debate over legitimate issues. I just question the First Legion "last ditchers," as a First Legion collector.

Dave

 

[Mitch]

Thats a very good post and, one I have wondered why seemingly grown men cannot have their toys of choice critiqued. Its very intense and, I believe in critique when necessary and for the correct reason but, it does and I agree with you very much, seem some defend bits of metal a bit OTT and, as you say this does not seem to go on in Glossy circles. I think the same thing you said about Matt not needing defended I said about Andy at K&C and was pilloried. Very strange indeed.
Mitch

 

[MapleLeaf]

As a KC collector i started to collect FL Naps
Yes there's a difference in sculpting
Yes there's a difference in painting
Yes every FL figure is different from each other
BUT the reason i collect FL Naps
is because i get the Prussians , the Nassau
the Brunswickers are comming and more to come
it's not just the blue side against the red side
I did not trow my KC away , i have some comming and preorder some
I will buy the FL new Highlanders and Brunswickers
So i buy what i like and don't care who says what
By the way my biggest collection is Beau Geste Durbar
and preordered Figarti Karl Morser and rail mounts
Maple Leaf has only one person to please and that's Maple Leaf
Please don't show this tread to city hall PLEASE

 

[ecuriel]

I primarily collect glossy soldiers, and my only matte soldiers are First Legion AWI and Crusades. I'd collect ACW, but you may have read some of my critique of that line. Furthermore, this is my first day off in a few weeks, so I've had a few beers at lunch. But, I have a question. Why do matte collectors have to be so competitive? On the glossy side of the hobby, we all seem to enjoy each other's collections, but over here everyone seems to argue. On each manufacturer's forum, you have three or four folks who always shout down anyone who questions the manufacturer. For crying out loud, moderators excise the attack posts and the trolls. Since this is First Legion's forum, why does Matt need someone to defend his product? That is his job.

P.S. This is not meant to influence the debate over legitimate issues. I just question the First Legion "last ditchers," as a First Legion collector.

Dave

Unfortunately, this hobby is meant to bring us back to our childhood, which also includes, fighting, bickering, cheating, bragging and so on, and so on...
I have 2 small children so I see it everyday.