Competition for the MG-34 Market (1 Viewer)

[Spitfrnd]

So, if we cannot criticize First Legion on First Legion's board, where should we do it? Should I go back to the Trophy board to criticize First Legion? That doesn't make sense. Matt and I disagreed on a valid historical issue about the ACW line. But say something about it, and the same crowd comes on crowing about how sublime First Legion is. And yes, I do collect the Rev War and Crusades lines, and yes, First Legion has some beautiful sculpts, in my eyes, but I don't denigrate others for finding beauty in Figarti or K&C. In my eyes, the most beautiful soldiers ever made are mid-production Trophy of Wales, but I don't tell folks they're wasting their money buying something else. And the repeated, over-the-top sales pitches almost kept me from moving into matte figure collecting. Sometimes the rah-rah stuff can do more harm than good. Just my two cents.

Dave

Well Dave I don't recall saying anyone couldn't criticize anything, here or anywhere else. It would be nice if the criticisms were offered constructively in the spirit of education, as I think should be the case for any manufacturer. I would not criticize your perception of beauty despite the fact it clearly represents a choice of style that is different from my tastes. That is different that an objective evaluation of a given style for its consistency and achievement. Taste and quality are different matters, just a realism and impressionism are different styles. It is silly to say that one style is better than the other but quite reasonable to suggest that one example of one style is better than another. That is not rah-rah, only a journey toward better understanding, if one can remain relatively dispassionate and truly consider different observations.

 

[DCN1898]

This is actually a good point and I agree with both you and Ed that meeting customers and manufacturers doing excellent displays of their own products at shows like Chicago is an important part of the overall business. We've been selling figures for less than three years now and I'd like to think doing quite well, however, we do feel it's time to take the show on the road and hopefully my presence won't be too detrimental to our overall success!

I for one, wouldn't mind meeting you!

 

[Spitfrnd]

I would be very happy to meet Matt one day that's for sure. But do I need to in order to buy his products ? No not at all...

Now I hate politically correctness...

For me :
FIRST LEGION FIGURES = THE BEST FOR OUR $ FOR US NAP COLLECTORS

For you :
I don't know

What I want to know on a new FL set before I buy it :
Pictures, pictures, pictures ... originality in the pose, perfect rendering of the anatomy, exquisite painting, advices from other collectors who already bought the piece & a nice price tag. That's why I visit this forum almost every day.

Alex

Well said again Alex.

 

[Gebhard]

Funny after reading through all the post on this thread today mine was the only one that was deleted LOL LOL and I'll I did was quote someone else . Really to funny .

Oh and it looks like everyone must be hanging around the First Legion threads waiting for one of those Evil First Legion collectors to say something they don't like because there were more members viewing FL then any other manufacture when I signed in . All the best Gebhard.

 

[Gebhard]

This is actually a good point and I agree with both you and Ed that meeting customers and manufacturers doing excellent displays of their own products at shows like Chicago is an important part of the overall business. We've been selling figures for less than three years now and I'd like to think doing quite well, however, we do feel it's time to take the show on the road and hopefully my presence won't be too detrimental to our overall success!

Hi Mr Matt,
I think you just said you may go to Chicago . I would think there are a couple of forum members that you wouldn't mind meeting and " Pressing the Flesh with " as it were . I would like to meet you , with all my money you have I'll bet you look like some version George Hamilton or something .

I think some guys live for these event's , IMO TS shows are like going to a stag bingo night and are for me a hit and run mission not a weekend waster .( of course if I was making money off it I may change my mind ) I'll walk through twice take notes on things that I want then go back and pickup what I want and head for the door . I burned myself out on going to shows awhile back with all the Military shows over the years the Max , The show of Shows ect......I would buy a table throw somethings on it so I could get in two days early with the dealers as all the good stuff is always gone before the public even get in the doors . Then have someone watch my table and we would go see the town .. I have an idea If some of the First Legion guys want to get together lets take the Ol ladies somewhere Tropical they can go shopping and we all can set poolside check out the babes have a couple of drinks and talk shop . I'll be dammed if I would waste my vacation time in Chicago looking at Toy Soldiers . But to each his own

 

[joesgis]

Comment from Spitfrnd: "The main reason for defensiveness about opinions relates to how much the individual sees them as a measurement of their self worth. Therein lies the basis for cognitive dissonance and tendency for a change in product view that has been demonstrated to result from purchasing that product."

I felt compelled to comment after reading this assessment by Bill. I like the psychological explanation employed to describe perhaps the underlying mechanism(s) behind that which sometimes drives our behaviors due to the cognitive dissonance that can arise when our beliefs and actual practices collide. Even though this occurrence cannot be applied to all such situations, I agree that it is sometimes present here. A closely related construct could be described by items that we have the duality of monetary and emotional investment in and how we seek, sometimes manifestly to ourselves, sometimes not, to justify our behaviors and opinions by various means. I think Bill really hit on something here.

Regarding the original purpose of the thread by Mitch...just a few things that stand out to me...Although I really think both TG and FL have sculpted their respective sets very well, based on the photos alone, I prefer the TG "style". Don't get me wrong FL supporters, but as nice as the pics of the new FL set look, I find the TG set to look a little "less stiff", and the TG helmet presentation is much more realistic to me. As always, just an opinion.

Joe

 

[joesgis]

Unfortunately, this hobby is meant to bring us back to our childhood, which also includes, fighting, bickering, cheating, bragging and so on, and so on...
I have 2 small children so I see it everyday.

Now I think you've hit the nail on the head here, Ed! This would also account for a multitude of my behaviors (my poor wife, but at least now we have an explanation!).
Very true, very true...I guess we have to take the good w/ the bad sometimes.

Joe

 

[Rob]

You gotta love this hobby havn't you, such a detailed and immpassioned discussion about two model figures sat at a model machine gun.

Its a shame we weren't all Generals in previous Wars, with all the discussion about the smallest details we would never have advanced a single foot and millions of lives would have been saved!.

What makes me happy is that however passionate and heated these threads get there does seem to be less FL fans going over to K&C threads and less K&C fans coming over here just to wind each other up.....are we growing up?!!

Now back to your normal programming......I say again, both look excellent to me!

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

you have gone and done it now mate. coming up to halloween you have reminded the beasts that its been quite quiet between the two threads.

Its like police and fire fighters hate their own saying its been a quiet night. as it always then goes pete tong. Its almost like waiting for the perfect storm lol
Mitch

 

[jazzeum]

I was watching the World Series last night and re-reading Hugh Thomas' Spanish Civil War last night so I didn't get much of a chance to closely look at this thread.

Having done so all I can say is Wow! I could say many things but instead will focus upon only one.

Some say that why do I need to go to Chicago or other shows since I can see FL products here on the Forum or through the website.

That is true, you can, and you don't need to go to a show to do it. Nothing beats a show though to look at a figure, pick it up, turn it over and so forth. For example, I was on the fence about buying the Desert Me 109 until I saw it the other night. I know not everybody can go to a show, however.

Some have pooh-poohed Chicago -- "what's the big deal, I can see the product right here" --but it's a wonderful experience. Nothing can beat seeing people you see only once a year or just talk to here on this Forum. We come on here and talk soldiers for a bit, then go back to our lives, and repeat this several times a day. Chicago is non-stop: for four or five days all you do is eat, breathe and talk toy soldiers! What could be better than that as a collector?

You also get to see new lines or ideas from manufacturers. To reduce this to "pressing the flesh" is to miss the point. These are not politicians but men and women who love their business, want to show off their new product, meet collectors and get them interested in their merchandise. Business is a large part of it but meeting collectors, new and old, is a big part of it as well. If we weren't interested in what happens at Chicago why would we have all this interest in what is in so and so's room and so forth.

Again, you don't need to go to Chicago to see product but you're missing one of the great experiences in your collecting life if you don't.

 

[Mitch]

Good points and, I think its easier in the US as you have what many consider to be the biggest show and have many many others. In the UK there are the London shows and Birmingham and the Northern show so, a lot less.

I think thats why many on forums like this really want to scrutinize and question in detail new releases and similar products as much as they can. All the things that can be achieved at the shows are done daily on here and, as prices rise for the products its a vital portal of information for collectors et al.
Mitch

 

[Rob]

I was watching the World Series last night and re-reading Hugh Thomas' Spanish Civil War last night so I didn't get much of a chance to closely look at this thread.

Having done so all I can say is Wow! I could say many things but instead will focus upon only one.

Some say that why do I need to go to Chicago or other shows since I can see FL products here on the Forum or through the website.

That is true, you can, and you don't need to go to a show to do it. Nothing beats a show though to look at a figure, pick it up, turn it over and so forth. For example, I was on the fence about buying the Desert Me 109 until I saw it the other night. I know not everybody can go to a show, however.

Some have pooh-poohed Chicago -- "what's the big deal, I can see the product right here" --but it's a wonderful experience. Nothing can beat seeing people you see only once a year or just talk to here on this Forum. We come on here and talk soldiers for a bit, then go back to our lives, and repeat this several times a day. Chicago is non-stop: for four or five days all you do is eat, breathe and talk toy soldiers! What could be better than that as a collector?

You also get to see new lines or ideas from manufacturers. To reduce this to "pressing the flesh" is to miss the point. These are not politicians but men and women who love their business, want to show off their new product, meet collectors and get them interested in their merchandise. Business is a large part of it but meeting collectors, new and old, is a big part of it as well. If we weren't interested in what happens at Chicago why would we have all this interest in what is in so and so's room and so forth.

Again, you don't need to go to Chicago to see product but you're missing one of the great experiences in your collecting life if you don't.

Could not agree more. Never been to Chicago but it sounds excellent. However my experience of London is probably the same. However much you look at something online its no substitute for seeing it in the flesh. Also you may decide online what you are going to buy at the show, you get there and there it is all laid out in front of you and you are all 'Wow, I want that more than I thought, that looks better than I thought' etc. Its just human nature and very enjoyable. Throw in your interaction with other collectors and there is no comparison between a show and online shopping. Just my humble you understand.

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

All very true Rob and I bet that one of the best parts of the London Show are the Treefroggers getting together in the bar

 

[Vezzolf]

Hi Mr Matt,
I think you just said you may go to Chicago . I would think there are a couple of forum members that you wouldn't mind meeting and " Pressing the Flesh with " as it were . I would like to meet you , with all my money you have I'll bet you look like some version George Hamilton or something .

I think some guys live for these event's , IMO TS shows are like going to a stag bingo night and are for me a hit and run mission not a weekend waster .( of course if I was making money off it I may change my mind ) I'll walk through twice take notes on things that I want then go back and pickup what I want and head for the door . I burned myself out on going to shows awhile back with all the Military shows over the years the Max , The show of Shows ect......I would buy a table throw somethings on it so I could get in two days early with the dealers as all the good stuff is always gone before the public even get in the doors . Then have someone watch my table and we would go see the town .. I have an idea If some of the First Legion guys want to get together lets take the Ol ladies somewhere Tropical they can go shopping and we all can set poolside check out the babes have a couple of drinks and talk shop . I'll be dammed if I would waste my vacation time in Chicago looking at Toy Soldiers . But to each his own

You are funny guy

 

[Rob]

All very true Rob and I bet that one of the best parts of the London Show are the Treefroggers getting together in the bar

It sure is Brad, it seems to get bigger every year, that barmaid is going to have her work cut out in a few weeks time

Rob

 

[Vezzolf]

I think it is great for some to go to TS shows and meet manufacturers and fellow collectors and see the products first hand......It would be great to meet the people we talk with on line......however most of us don't have the time or finances to travel: airfare,cabs,hotel, meals etc.....that's why I will sometimes make a limited purchase of a new manufacturer's product in order to make a physical hands on comparison of products.....Definitely a less costly way to compare products....although probably not as fun as attending a show I will admit....That's how I started collecting First Legion.....No regrets...WHATSOEVER....Great Product....Thanks First Legion

 

[Spitfrnd]

Hi Mr Matt,
I think you just said you may go to Chicago . I would think there are a couple of forum members that you wouldn't mind meeting and " Pressing the Flesh with " as it were . I would like to meet you , with all my money you have I'll bet you look like some version George Hamilton or something .

I think some guys live for these event's , IMO TS shows are like going to a stag bingo night and are for me a hit and run mission not a weekend waster .( of course if I was making money off it I may change my mind ) I'll walk through twice take notes on things that I want then go back and pickup what I want and head for the door . I burned myself out on going to shows awhile back with all the Military shows over the years the Max , The show of Shows ect......I would buy a table throw somethings on it so I could get in two days early with the dealers as all the good stuff is always gone before the public even get in the doors . Then have someone watch my table and we would go see the town .. I have an idea If some of the First Legion guys want to get together lets take the Ol ladies somewhere Tropical they can go shopping and we all can set poolside check out the babes have a couple of drinks and talk shop . I'll be dammed if I would waste my vacation time in Chicago looking at Toy Soldiers . But to each his own

Well I guess we will leave room at the tables for those that feel the need. No doubt it would be interesting to see but it just doesn't rise to a must experience level for me; each to his own as you say but then again, meeting GH might make it worth the event.

 

[Mitch]

For all the reasons why one would not want to go to a show seeing a man that looked like he has dyed himself in tea for 6 months would be high on my list. Looks a bit of a clown wanting to be that brown.

Strange what vanity does to some people
Mitch

 

[Warrior]

Hi Mr Matt,
I think you just said you may go to Chicago . I would think there are a couple of forum members that you wouldn't mind meeting and " Pressing the Flesh with " as it were . I would like to meet you , with all my money you have I'll bet you look like some version George Hamilton or something .

Mr Matt=George Hamilton................gee, let's see; 86 the smoking jacket, fake tan and replace the cigar with a Newport and bingo, presto, changeo, you have Mr Matt more or less.

You do look a bit like GH Mr Matt..................some of you will get to see Mr Matt sooner than later, don't want to let the cat out of the bag, but Mr Matt will be winging his way over here for one of our shows, so maybe even you Gebbie will forgo some of your vacation time for a chance to meet the man behind FL....................this thread has certainly been a page turner, more like the Hatfields vs the McCoys with more deletions that actual posts.

You guys are priceless.........

 

[Warrior]

...however most of us don't have the time or finances to travel: airfare,cabs,hotel, meals etc...

I'm glad you are in the minority regarding this opinion considering how important shows are to me and my overall profits, I can't remember a year where so many folks turned out for the shows as they have so far this year and to them I say a big thank you; the shows are vital IMO for dealers as it gives them a chance to meet collectors in person, shoot the breeze, etc, etc, but more importantly, it gives YOU Frank the collector a chance to see the products up close and in the flesh so to speak.

You've got a show twice a year in your own backyard in Burlington MA; why don't you come on down and join the party, ask Bill, Tim, the Lt, Paul, Nick, or many of the other guys from the forum who come to the show, they seem to enjoy themselves, maybe you would too..................