Competition for the MG-34 Market (2 Viewers)

[Vezzolf]

First Legion has also recently hinted at a soon to come artillary piece for the Stalingrad German series...This new product release will help settle some issues.....For those who can't see the difference.....I suggest buying some First Legion Stalingrad....seeing is believing....Give them a try....The difference will be obvious to most folks.....That's what I did...

 

[ecuriel]

I was at the Chicago Show and didn't see the company there. One of the best parts of the hobby is meeting the owners of the company and fellow collectors. George had some of the Stalingrad figures and I think they were nice, but I am not looking to add another manufacturer to my mix.

 

[Vezzolf]

I was at the Chicago Show and didn't see the company there. One of the best parts of the hobby is meeting the owners of the company and fellow collectors. George had some of the Stalingrad figures and I think they were nice, but I am not looking to add another manufacturer to my mix.

Too bad because you will be missing out on one of the best manufactured products out there....but we all have our limits as well as our favorites

 

[Mitch]

Vezzolf...

I don't think anyone was really saying one was better or worse than another. From looking back at the comments and those who mentioned TG I think it was more of a look how well they have done in a short space of time than saying it was better than FL.

No denying FL do paint well and sculpt well but, it was nice to have two makers, wherever they are viewed as sitting in the hobby, doing a similar set to address. They enhance the figures IMO through a nice blend of shading thats where their figures stand out from other makers.

It all seemed to be a little lost in translation but, thats what my posts were about and from looking a few others. I am certainly looking forward to the release of Stalingrad artillery whatever calibre will be a great release
Mitch

 

[ecuriel]

Too bad because you will be missing out on one of the best manufactured products out there....but we all have our limits as well as our favorites

I wouldn't say I have limits, but after hearing the annoucement of the Figarti/Aeroart at Chicago I like to see what they come up with.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I was at the Chicago Show and didn't see the company there. One of the best parts of the hobby is meeting the owners of the company and fellow collectors. George had some of the Stalingrad figures and I think they were nice, but I am not looking to add another manufacturer to my mix.

An interesting observation; no doubt meeting the people involved in any hobby can be fun but certainly don't see how it can substitute for the quality of the product that you have in your home every day. But then I think these days we can learn more about each other with some electronic dialogue than any amount of pressing the flesh will ever provide but each to his own in this too. Of course it you are not looking to add another manufactuer no matter how nice they are it doesn't really matter, right?

 

[Spitfrnd]

I primarily collect glossy soldiers, and my only matte soldiers are First Legion AWI and Crusades. I'd collect ACW, but you may have read some of my critique of that line. Furthermore, this is my first day off in a few weeks, so I've had a few beers at lunch. But, I have a question. Why do matte collectors have to be so competitive? On the glossy side of the hobby, we all seem to enjoy each other's collections, but over here everyone seems to argue. On each manufacturer's forum, you have three or four folks who always shout down anyone who questions the manufacturer. For crying out loud, moderators excise the attack posts and the trolls. Since this is First Legion's forum, why does Matt need someone to defend his product? That is his job.

P.S. This is not meant to influence the debate over legitimate issues. I just question the First Legion "last ditchers," as a First Legion collector.

Dave

I don't know Dave but I think much of the perceived and actual hostility arises from the way some people treat other people's comments. It is not, as you note, manufactuer specific and I think just a function of who those people happen to be and how they may rub some others. The subject could be anything from baseball to tiddlewinks.

FWIW, if someone wants to state their point of view, whether it defends or criticizes someone or thing, there should be no problem in that. It is all about how that should make the difference IMHO.

 

[Mitch]

I do think that it has much to do with ones belief that a certain product is superior over another from which, the hostlity derives. This can be plainly seen from the manner in which some of the threads and responses show. I do think that possibly some do try to wind up collectors from each of their so called respective collecting camps and this does not help and, far from believing its down to individuals I do think its down to the choice of collection.

There is nothing wrong with finding issues with products and this is what its all about but, to believe any set is perfect and above fault is a corner stone to some of the problems when discussing or comparing manufacturers. As has been stated its how some seem to feel it is their ''duty'' to defend critique of their choosen product which is the problem.
Mitch

 

[Spitfrnd]

A belief or knowledge of the reality (which applies in many cases) of the superiority of a product is not only natural but necessary for any informed consumer of anything. There is no inherent hostility to derive from that. That the issue is down to individuals is pretty evident from who is offended by what and whom. The identity of those that like to wind people up has little to do with what they collect but may be fueled by the length of time they have collected it, just as the length of time any idea is held can have such effect.

The main reason for defensiveness about opinions relates to how much the individual sees them as a measurement of their self worth. Therein lies the basis for cognitive dissonance and tendency for a change in product view that has been demonstrated to result from purchasing that product. How anyone deals with any of that is the challenge of human interaction, is dependent on many variables, some more difficult to change that others, and has nothing to do with this hobby or any product in it. Even the choice of phrases in quotes that may be pejorative in context is an illustration of the way some expressions may be inclined to provoke a less than measured response.

 

[ecuriel]

An interesting observation; no doubt meeting the people involved in any hobby can be fun but certainly don't see how it can substitute for the quality of the product that you have in your home every day. But then I think these days we can learn more about each other with some electronic dialogue than any amount of pressing the flesh will ever provide but each to his own in this too. Of course it you are not looking to add another manufactuer no matter how nice they are it doesn't really matter, right?[/QUOTE

I was more than happy to add The Metal Shed WWII items because I felt it was a unique product. I went to Chicago thinking First Legion would commit to the Toy Soldier Show and see there product displayed like some of the other manufacturers. My point about pressing flesh is that although many can debate that one manufacturer is the best, the best part of this hobby to me has been the people I have met. I have collected many things in my life, and I have learned that many peoples humble opinions are not so humble.

 

[desk11desk12]

An interesting observation; no doubt meeting the people involved in any hobby can be fun but certainly don't see how it can substitute for the quality of the product that you have in your home every day. But then I think these days we can learn more about each other with some electronic dialogue than any amount of pressing the flesh will ever provide but each to his own in this too. Of course it you are not looking to add another manufactuer no matter how nice they are it doesn't really matter, right?[/QUOTE

I was more than happy to add The Metal Shed WWII items because I felt it was a unique product. I went to Chicago thinking First Legion would commit to the Toy Soldier Show and see there product displayed like some of the other manufacturers. My point about pressing flesh is that although many can debate that one manufacturer is the best, the best part of this hobby to me has been the people I have met. I have collected many things in my life, and I have learned that many peoples humble opinions are not so humble.

Good thoughts Ed.

A few years ago I met Brian (Collectors Showcase) at his 1st Chicago Show on the day of the show. His room was never open prior to the show. He figured out qucikly the need to press the flesh with collectors and he's done well ever since.

John Jenkins is a big hit too when he shows up for shows.

Carlos

 

[Spitfrnd]

An interesting observation; no doubt meeting the people involved in any hobby can be fun but certainly don't see how it can substitute for the quality of the product that you have in your home every day. But then I think these days we can learn more about each other with some electronic dialogue than any amount of pressing the flesh will ever provide but each to his own in this too. Of course it you are not looking to add another manufactuer no matter how nice they are it doesn't really matter, right?[/QUOTE

I was more than happy to add The Metal Shed WWII items because I felt it was a unique product. I went to Chicago thinking First Legion would commit to the Toy Soldier Show and see there product displayed like some of the other manufacturers. My point about pressing flesh is that although many can debate that one manufacturer is the best, the best part of this hobby to me has been the people I have met. I have collected many things in my life, and I have learned that many peoples humble opinions are not so humble.

Actually, when it comes right down to it most people attach some value to thier opinions, humble or otherwise. What matters more is whether they are interested in sharing ideas or just stating them; I simply intended to share mine with you. We all come to any hobby for our own reasons and derive what we derive from it for the same. There is nothing wrong with deriving pleasure from face to face contact with your sellers nor is there anything wrong with finding an alternative way to satisfy whatever needs you may have for that. In my experience, individuals often try and use whatever example they can find to promote their point of view which is fine, just not always very balanced.

 

[ecuriel]

Actually, when it comes right down to it most people attach some value to thier opinions, humble or otherwise. What matters more is whether they are interested in sharing ideas or just stating them; I simply intended to share mine with you. We all come to any hobby for our own reasons and derive what we derive from it for the same. There is nothing wrong with deriving pleasure from face to face contact with your sellers nor is there anything wrong with finding an alternative way to satisfy whatever needs you may have for that. In my experience, individuals often try and use whatever example they can find to promote their point of view which is fine, just not always very balanced.

Please, forgive my confusion, but when opinions include things like why would you sacrafice quality for things in your home and if you give it a try you'll see the superiority of the product I fail to see the balance. The Bottom line is that The Chicago Show would have been a nice venue to show off the quality of the product vs other manufacturers. Finally, the only opinions that are worth anything to me are the ones I'm willing to pay for.

 

[sammy719]

All these latest posts about who shouldn't say this or that, and why certain people shouln't say this or that, please...it's my opionion and if I feel someone is over critizing my collection (First Legion) on a First Legion site then I'm gonna call them out on it, just as someone would go on a K&C site or anywhere else and over critize those sites, if you don't like the product please don't come on thiere site trying to stir up some drama because you will more then likely get it, I get people aren't happy with everything First Legion does and likes to hand out friendly advice on how it should be done I guess, but give it a break after awhile, I just want to collect my soldiers and be happy, not to keep reading about what First Legion is doing wrong. and I need apologize to T. Gunn about a post I made ealier in this thread, I try to keep the Ol' addage "if you don't have nothing nice to say don't say it" and I respect all the manufacturers on here and glad they are doing what they are doing, and I will not get dragged into another "my guys are better then your guys" conversation....and as F. Gump said.''that's all I'm gonna say about that"...Sammy

 

[FirstLegion]

Good thoughts Ed.

A few years ago I met Brian (Collectors Showcase) at his 1st Chicago Show on the day of the show. His room was never open prior to the show. He figured out qucikly the need to press the flesh with collectors and he's done well ever since.

John Jenkins is a big hit too when he shows up for shows.

Carlos

This is actually a good point and I agree with both you and Ed that meeting customers and manufacturers doing excellent displays of their own products at shows like Chicago is an important part of the overall business. We've been selling figures for less than three years now and I'd like to think doing quite well, however, we do feel it's time to take the show on the road and hopefully my presence won't be too detrimental to our overall success!

 

[churchmouse1]

So, if we cannot criticize First Legion on First Legion's board, where should we do it? Should I go back to the Trophy board to criticize First Legion? That doesn't make sense. Matt and I disagreed on a valid historical issue about the ACW line. But say something about it, and the same crowd comes on crowing about how sublime First Legion is. And yes, I do collect the Rev War and Crusades lines, and yes, First Legion has some beautiful sculpts, in my eyes, but I don't denigrate others for finding beauty in Figarti or K&C. In my eyes, the most beautiful soldiers ever made are mid-production Trophy of Wales, but I don't tell folks they're wasting their money buying something else. And the repeated, over-the-top sales pitches almost kept me from moving into matte figure collecting. Sometimes the rah-rah stuff can do more harm than good. Just my two cents.

Dave

 

[ecuriel]

This is actually a good point and I agree with both you and Ed that meeting customers and manufacturers doing excellent displays of their own products at shows like Chicago is an important part of the overall business. We've been selling figures for less than three years now and I'd like to think doing quite well, however, we do feel it's time to take the show on the road and hopefully my presence won't be too detrimental to our overall success!

I'll be at the Westcoaster and love to take you to lunch.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Please, forgive my confusion, but when opinions include things like why would you sacrifice quality for things in your home and if you give it a try you'll see the superiority of the product I fail to see the balance. The Bottom line is that The Chicago Show would have been a nice venue to show off the quality of the product vs other manufacturers. Finally, the only opinions that are worth anything to me are the ones I'm willing to pay for.

Let's be totally clear mate. You stated your opinion than made some mysterious reference to humble opinions. I responded to your post as it was stated. However, if you want to criticize or contest what I said, it would be help for a dialog to be accurate. The balance I referenced is the citation to examples that only support the opinion an individual is promoting. There are several apt illustrations here. However, as to the statement by several, which I support, that if you try it you will likely see the superiority of the product, what in the world could be more balanced? If you try it and disagree, what have you lost and how does that degrade any form of balance? I must say when I was starting out in this hobby, I tried several different manufacturers on my own initiative before I had ever been to a show and figured if I didn't like any of them, I would sell them or just accept it as a cost of knowledge.

Chicago does seem to have mythical status for some in this hobby, for reasons that escape me. Best I can tell is a big show with many opportunities to see many great examples of the craft and mostly buy things you would or would not anyway. That is all fine it you like that but the simple fact is that you could see some of FL's there as well. Honestly, no matter how many lunches, dinners. speeches, extravaganza unveiling's or cocktails I enjoyed with any manufacturer, my collecting decisions would remain as they are. If you ask me whether I would pay an extra $1 or even $.05 per figure to have that experience, I would chose no. Maybe you would but that is your choice and there is no reason to become hostile toward those who choose otherwise.

 

[desk11desk12]

I'll be at the Westcoaster and love to take you to lunch.

Cool Ed, I'll be there probably sometime Thursday of that week.

See you then,

Carlos

 

[Alex]

I would be very happy to meet Matt one day that's for sure. But do I need to in order to buy his products ? No not at all...

Now I hate politically correctness...

For me :
FIRST LEGION FIGURES = THE BEST FOR OUR $ FOR US NAP COLLECTORS

For you :
I don't know

What I want to know on a new FL set before I buy it :
Pictures, pictures, pictures ... originality in the pose, perfect rendering of the anatomy, exquisite painting, advices from other collectors who already bought the piece & a nice price tag. That's why I visit this forum almost every day.

Alex