Concentration camp (1 Viewer)

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Calling the Holocaust scene a remembrance so it doesn't happen again has little merit. There have probably been a dozen ethic cleansings around the world since the Holocaust. No need to go back as far as WWII to get a history lesson.

Terry
 
...About the only way to do it is if you are a Jewish holocaust group showing the horror of the camps with emaciated bodies in an historical remembrance context...

I disagree, Terry. If that were true, no one could make any kind of display about any event, unless he had been there himself. I'm not Ukranian or Armenian, yet I think I could create a display depicting the atrocities visited on those peoples.

Prost!
Brad
 
I disagree, Terry. If that were true, no one could make any kind of display about any event, unless he had been there himself. I'm not Ukranian or Armenian, yet I think I could create a display depicting the atrocities visited on those peoples.

Prost!
Brad

Of course you could. But not being Ukranian or Armenian or doing it in some positive context, how well would it be received if it was just a model in your house.

Terry
 
I think most would agree it would be a bad idea. This would cross the line of wrong. ^&cool
 
I think most would agree it would be a bad idea. This would cross the line of wrong. ^&cool

Good point. If you make a scene to honor and remember the victims, would you invite your neighbours, friends and relatives in to see it? If not, then there is a problem with it. Would anyone defend people collecting kiddie porn to remember the suffering of children? I don't see much difference. As PanzerAce said - some things just cross the line.

Terry.
 
But don't you think a lot of people fill the same seeing a load of marching LAH figures?

Yes I do. But even that isn't quite as bad as a concentration camp scene which would bother a lot more people - especially for those who lost friends and family in one.

Terry
 
But don't you think a lot of people fill the same seeing a load of marching LAH figures?


Interesting question Neil. I'd have to say if we think of the images we all know of the camps, the emaciated prisoners, the heaps of skeletal fly covered bodies, the people near death at the fences begging for food.....I'd say yes, thats probably quite a bit more upsetting for relatives or survivors than LAH marching and parading.But actually when you describe such figures you do actually think ' Who earth is going to make them '???? I can see the appeal of the LAH figures because they are of the traditional marching soldier type beloved by generations, but I wonder how many LAH collectors would really buy dead or dying concentration camp figures??? Just my tuppence.

Rob
 
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Interesting question Neil. I'd have to say if we think of the images we all know of the camps, the emaciated prisoners, the heaps of skeletal fly covered bodies, the people near death at the fences begging for food.....I'd say yes, thats probably quite a bit more upsetting for relatives or survivors than LAH marching and parading.But actually when you describe such figures you do actually think ' Who earth is going to make them '???? I can see the appeal of the LAH figures because they are of the traditional marching soldier type beloved by generations, but I wonder how many LAH collectors would really buy dead or dying concentration camp figures??? Just my tuppence.

Rob

Fair point Rob but who were running the camps ? The SS , I was watching Auschwitz - The Nazis And The Final Solution last night on sky and I would not have that stuff in my house & fair play to First Legion for coming out and saying they won't make it , sorry but people won't like me saying it but that my view on the subject .but what people do in there houses is there business
 
Fair point Rob but who were running the camps ? The SS , I was watching Auschwitz - The Nazis And The Final Solution last night on sky and I would not have that stuff in my house & fair play to First Legion for coming out and saying they won't make it , sorry but people won't like me saying it but that my view on the subject .but what people do in there houses is there business




Does that mean you would not approve of people posting pictures of their concentration camp dio on the Forum? I certainly would not.

Terry
 
Fair point Rob but who were running the camps ? The SS , I was watching Auschwitz - The Nazis And The Final Solution last night on sky and I would not have that stuff in my house & fair play to First Legion for coming out and saying they won't make it , sorry but people won't like me saying it but that my view on the subject .but what people do in there houses is there business

Neil, this is the joy of freedom and courtesy. You have stated your position which you are 100% entitled to do, you did it without insulting anyone or talking down to those who might want these figures. I too would never buy such figures either. Even though I also don't collect the LAH range I respect those who do, we all have our interests and we all decide what to collect and what not to. Again, thats freedom, a very hard won freedom.:salute::

Rob
 
Does that mean you would not approve of people posting pictures of their concentration camp dio on the Forum? I certainly would not.

Terry

Well Terry I've been to two concentration camp in Germany so don't think are have a problem seeing dio of a concentration camp on the forum do you :) I just have a problem with the history of SS & LAH figures
 
I will be very honest: being Jewish, this definitely offends me in a big way at first glance. I understand it's history, but there is a bit of a difference between what we do and wholesale slaughter of innocents. While I have often come out in support of those who collect LAH and the like, I would have to say I would be VERY opposed to any company that did a line of figures of this. However, on second glance, I will make one exception. If a manufacturer were to make one or two small vignettes of positive scenes (like a liberation), and donate a percentage to survivors, then I think that would not only be appropriate but honorable.
-Sandor
 
Neils did say he wanted to do a scene of liberation I don't recall him saying he wanted piles of corpses just a fence guard tower and, some prisoners at the fence.

I think, that could be done well and, in good taste (in the loosest of terms) without the gore that some have believed it must contain. Obviously, its not for everyone but, there are many dio builders and, some renowned in their hobbies who have done similar scenes, train deportations and the like and, have not attracted any controversy. If I were asked to build one for a collector I would and, try to do it as best I could. I don't think, I would make one for myself to have in the loft but, thats not what this is about.

We roam around the history books and strive for more and more realism in a hobby which offers history in miniature, many call for dead and wounded and body parts for dio scenes. This is just taking it to its zeneth. I had some killer comments from two members for the Malmedy dio I did a few months ago but, its history.

This shows the complexity of the hobby and what it represents. Individuals have different ideas about what they wish to portray from it and, what they find shocking or not or, bad taste or not. Its also, a hard topic when discussing the SS as we have seen many don't like them for what they were and stood for but, where does the line in the sand be drawn?? Do we have no SS troops in our houses full stop or, do we flex the rigidity of that by saying well some SS stuff or, this AFV or that troops set.

Neil asked about Camp guards. Mostly derived from the troops of Eiche and the totenkopf but, how many who dispise that unit have the Flakgephard in their collections or, the SS from the Leibstandarte who worked in Kanada sorting the belongings and money from the victims have the Wittmann tiger or similar in their homes.

Its a complex question and, is easy to cast comments upon those who have and, are brave enough to say I want this or that. Of course no manufacturer would put out such a range for collectors however few to purchase but, does that mean it should not be recreated with whats available?? I am not so sure.

I think what Neil has been watching and, the many docs on the camps including the world at war show far more graphically what happened than any diorama that could be made and shown on here. If we, as historians can watch such things I am sure we can look at a diorama of the liberation of one of those camps with open minds. I would think that those who have knowledge of the subject would be less offended with a diorama in miniature than watching the world at war.

What is being done is presupposing that any dio coming from Neils or, anyone else would be done in a way that glorifies the regime which started the camp rather than showing the humanity of the act of liberating such a place
Mitch
 
I may well be wrong here Mitch, but I thought the people who would have problem with this are more concerned with the depiction of horror, suffering and of upsetting relatives of lost ones rather than gloryfying the regime. For me it would be the sheer misery of such a scene that would make it a non starter.

Very interesting to get all perspectives on this and does show that here doesn't have to be a link to the LAH, we have enthusiastic collectors of the range who would and who wouldn't have such a dio in their home. I guess so far its more nay than yay, still early doors though!

Rob
 
Rob..

I suppose its all down to how its portrayed and, what the effect that the poster is after there are two very distinct ways it could be done. Neils was quite clear in what he said he would like to portray and, if thats what he sticks with I have no problem with it and, look forward to seeing it. If it went the other way I would not be offended things just don't affect me in that way. I could see and understand why people would come down on it though. I also don't see the connection between the camp dio and collectors of the LAH??? The two are as diametrically opposed as they could be. Unless certain people see a link but, thats so bizzarre and I think many would be way to intelligent on here to make such a link. The link could as easily be made with those who have row upon row of SS german vehicles and, we have been over that many times in many threads. So, for me mate its no link
Mitch

I may well be wrong here Mitch, but I thought the people who would have problem with this are more concerned with the depiction of horror, suffering and of upsetting relatives of lost ones rather than gloryfying the regime. For me it would be the sheer misery of such a scene that would make it a non starter.

Very interesting to get all perspectives on this and does show that here doesn't have to be a link to the LAH, we have enthusiastic collectors of the range who would and who wouldn't have such a dio in their home. I guess so far its more nay than yay, still early doors though!

Rob
 
Mitch, yes I agree. I guess that perhaps thats where your post about the regime comes in, perhaps folk consider the ideals/ethos behind the LAH manifested in the Holocaust (I'm only guessing here and don't know either way). But the main point here is what is one man's meat is another man's poison , it sure would be a boring hobby if everyone agreed about everything all the time. Also I never worry about what other people think of my collecting or my love of military history (one relative asked me years ago ' isn't it all very depressing reading and collecting that stuff all the time'?). I think the subject of military history and all that goes with it is one of those life long subjects that never leaves you, it got in my blood as a small boy and has never left.

There is a company here on the forum (but its almost midnight and the name escapes me) who make excellent looking huts for anyone considering a prison camp type scene, I was going to make a prison camp scene with lots of Luftwaffe figures in it, but Wayne would send his forthcoming fleet of Stukas over to demolish it! ^&grin:wink2:

Rob


Rob..

I suppose its all down to how its portrayed and, what the effect that the poster is after there are two very distinct ways it could be done. Neils was quite clear in what he said he would like to portray and, if thats what he sticks with I have no problem with it and, look forward to seeing it. If it went the other way I would not be offended things just don't affect me in that way. I could see and understand why people would come down on it though. I also don't see the connection between the camp dio and collectors of the LAH??? The two are as diametrically opposed as they could be. Unless certain people see a link but, thats so bizzarre and I think many would be way to intelligent on here to make such a link. The link could as easily be made with those who have row upon row of SS german vehicles and, we have been over that many times in many threads. So, for me mate its no link
Mitch
 
My two cents: I believe that the Holocaust and it's memory is far too overpowering to depict in terms of TS. The continued exsistence of the haunted concentration camps as a symbol and a reminder are the most powerful memorial that could ever be created. It is just my opinion, but any attempt to recreate these camps, in whatever form, cannot due justice to the suffering and torture that was endured inside these camps. It seems to me that it can only cheapen the memory of this most horrible of events. I don't mean that anyone shouldn't do what they want, only that this subject transcends this particular hobby. -- Al
 
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