Eichmann (1 Viewer)

[Combat]

That only tell me the history of the man not your opinion on making the figure witch is what your thread is about is it not

They are interrelated. I have given some reasons about Eichmann that I believe could distinguish him with from others that KC has done. However, the thread is not about my opinion as to whether it should or shouldn't be done (see the very first post "I'm not suggesting it or offering an opinion"). Rather it's more about how KC makes those decisions. Like I said a couple times before, I understand the position of those who don't collect any of these figures because they find them all offensive. What I'm curious about is those who do collect or make them and whether there are subject lines or personalities (e.g. Eichmann) who even they might not collect or make. If so, where do you draw that line.

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

The grey areas are what has been explained and written about in terms of what is now known about him. There may be no grey areas for you but, that does not mean historically we can learn much more about the perpetrators of the acts in question
Mitch

Chris, we know who the bad guys were, there are no grey areas with the Nazi's,love the phrase 2 in the chest one in the head

Rob

 

[tdubel]

I usually stay out of this muck, but let me answer for K&C and I think common sense will go with this interpretation. They spoke that they have NO interest in doing this figure. Knowing K&C quite well, I can tell you from experience that means they do not think it appropriate to make this guy. Andy has spoke many times regarding the line and that he will not cross it with regard to blatant reference to the Final Solution. Let's have some common sense here, a miniature of Eichmann is not going to happen.

If you want a miniature, commission someone, but I believe this topic is a "dead" one much like Eichmann. Now as to my own opinion, there is not one redeeming quality in that guy, he is the epitome of evil. Nuff said.


TD

 

[Rob]

I usually stay out of this muck, but let me answer for K&C and I think common sense will go with this interpretation. They spoke that they have NO interest in doing this figure. Knowing K&C quite well, I can tell you from experience that means they do not think it appropriate to make this guy. Andy has spoke many times regarding the line and that he will not cross it with regard to blatant reference to the Final Solution. Let's have some common sense here, a miniature of Eichmann is not going to happen.

If you want a miniature, commission someone, but I believe this topic is a "dead" one much like Eichmann. Now as to my own opinion, there is not one redeeming quality in that guy, he is the epitome of evil. Nuff said.


TD

Well said

Rob

 

[Arnhemjim]

i usually stay out of this muck, but let me answer for k&c and i think common sense will go with this interpretation. They spoke that they have no interest in doing this figure. Knowing k&c quite well, i can tell you from experience that means they do not think it appropriate to make this guy. Andy has spoke many times regarding the line and that he will not cross it with regard to blatant reference to the final solution. Let's have some common sense here, a miniature of eichmann is not going to happen.

If you want a miniature, commission someone, but i believe this topic is a "dead" one much like eichmann. Now as to my own opinion, there is not one redeeming quality in that guy, he is the epitome of evil. Nuff said.


Td

Hear!! Hear!! Very well said!

 

[Combat]

I usually stay out of this muck, but let me answer for K&C and I think common sense will go with this interpretation. They spoke that they have NO interest in doing this figure. Knowing K&C quite well, I can tell you from experience that means they do not think it appropriate to make this guy. Andy has spoke many times regarding the line and that he will not cross it with regard to blatant reference to the Final Solution. Let's have some common sense here, a miniature of Eichmann is not going to happen.

If you want a miniature, commission someone, but I believe this topic is a "dead" one much like Eichmann. Now as to my own opinion, there is not one redeeming quality in that guy, he is the epitome of evil. Nuff said.


TD

How about Heydrich, Himmler, Hitler all figures that KC has done. By your response they are not evil because KC has done them?

 

[Rob]

Guys, this is indeed a very emotive subject that causes strong feelings on either side.Yesterday feelings were running high and things began to get heated. The main thing is the LAH is a very popular range and a big seller with collectors,even though I don't collect them I can understand how the uniforms and pomp appeal to collectors. This is totally different from K&C making Concentration camp figures, torture/experiment figures, or figures going into Gas chambers. As I said yesterday having talked to Andy on many occasions I do not believe he would ever even entertain the idea of making such figures and that for me is the line.


Rob

 

[jazzeum]

Doug,

I really can't understand why you keep pushing this issue. We've been down this road so many times that any conversation just seems to wind up in the same place, the land of ill feelings. I don't like these figures but nothing I can say or do is going to change K & C's mind, unfortunately.

 

[Mitch]

Although as with many emotive subjects at their heart they are very interesting (well, for some) I don't think anyone with an ounce of sense would expect or want concentration camp figures or similar. However, Combat, asked about an Eichmann figure and, I tried to state that in terms of evil per se a man working in administration was not say, as evil as the camp guards or, the einsatz troops and, army and police units who did the executions. Their rise to notoriety bore from the times and the influence of the absolute totalitarian regime they were bound up in.

These are valid historical arguments which, are worthy of debate for those who wish to address them.

Eichmann is a rather strange character to recreate in miniature and as I said yesterday it would probably only work in the dock with the guards around him at trial in Israel.

As its not being done the other valid debate is what quantification of evil do you place on Heydrich Himmler Hitler Goering who were not only the catalyst but in Heydrichs case a vigourous and active participant in the resolving of jewish question in europe and, to the final solution.

We deal in history and, its how much reality you wish to place on the sets you buy. Everything will offend in some way should you wish to take the whole hobby as real and not a release replicating an era where nasty stuff was done.
Mitch

 

[tdubel]

How about Heydrich, Himmler, Hitler all figures that KC has done. By your response they are not evil because KC has done them?

Doug, yes they are, but:

1. Himmler - important for the sake of history to be redone as he was a head nazi that played an integral role in Nazi Germany. I don't like the portrayal at the Berghoff, but regarding parade, he was there and if you do Nuremburg, hard not to have him.

2. Heydrich - main portrayal was him getting blown up, that I am fine with, the marching figure - parade figure and while I don't particularly care for it, so be it.

3. Hitler - he was the epitome of Nazi Germany, you cannot portray WW2 without him.

Eichmann - just can't get there, the only thing he is remembered for in history is his sadistic nature toward Jews and the Final Solution. Sorry, but when his name comes up, the only thing you think about is concentration camps. He was regarded as the man who implemented and frontlined the extermination.

Personally, I dislike all of these figures, however, I can see where 1,2and 3 are done. Eichmann, I just can't get there and neither can K&C.

TD

 

[Combat]

Doug, yes they are, but:

1. Himmler - important for the sake of history to be redone as he was a head nazi that played an integral role in Nazi Germany. I don't like the portrayal at the Berghoff, but regarding parade, he was there and if you do Nuremburg, hard not to have him.

2. Heydrich - main portrayal was him getting blown up, that I am fine with, the marching figure - parade figure and while I don't particularly care for it, so be it.

3. Hitler - he was the epitome of Nazi Germany, you cannot portray WW2 without him.

Eichmann - just can't get there, the only thing he is remembered for in history is his sadistic nature toward Jews and the Final Solution. Sorry, but when his name comes up, the only thing you think about is concentration camps. He was regarded as the man who implemented and frontlined the extermination.

Personally, I dislike all of these figures, however, I can see where 1,2and 3 are done. Eichmann, I just can't get there and neither can K&C.

TD

Thanks TD. That's really the question I was trying to get at back many posts ago. It really doesn't seem all that controversial.

 

[Mitch]

jazzeum....

I realise you don't like these but, why should your dislike be unfortunate that you cannot change K&C's mind about releasing them??

Surely, we all dislike certain things but, to want a ban or end to it means many who do like them suffer and, is that not a similar principle that the Nazi's took in the thirties to things they did not like??

I really don't want to seem argumentative I am interested (not just as a collector of parade figures) but, in the whole argument against them. it seems to me some saying their likes and morality over such things are more important than others and, thats what concerns me. It leads to a host of problems when this occurs and does not in the slightest enhance tolerance.
Mitch

Doug,

I really can't understand why you keep pushing this issue. We've been down this road so many times that any conversation just seems to wind up in the same place, the land of ill feelings. I don't like these figures but nothing I can say or do is going to change K & C's mind, unfortunately.

 

[Sons of the desert]

Honestly,
I'd like to see more German combat personalities before an Eichmann figure.
There are enough real life figures to choose from.

 

[Rob]

Honestly,
I'd like to see more German combat personalities before an Eichmann figure.
There are enough real life figures to choose from.

Actually I was thinking this yesterday, how about a Paulus pre Stalingrad, sorry Doug back to thread!

Rob

 

[Mitch]

I thought actually that the manteuffel figure looked a better representation of Paulus in his winter coat.
Mitch

 

[jazzeum]

jazzeum....

I realise you don't like these but, why should your dislike be unfortunate that you cannot change K&C's mind about releasing them??

Surely, we all dislike certain things but, to want a ban or end to it means many who do like them suffer and, is that not a similar principle that the Nazi's took in the thirties to things they did not like??

I really don't want to seem argumentative I am interested (not just as a collector of parade figures) but, in the whole argument against them. it seems to me some saying their likes and morality over such things are more important than others and, thats what concerns me. It leads to a host of problems when this occurs and does not in the slightest enhance tolerance.
Mitch

I indicated yesterday that I wasn't going to get into a discussion about this. You know my views about this. That's all I have to say on the topic.

 

[Mitch]

I know your veiws on the releases and a few others. Hopefully, for harmony, as everyone keeps wanting this, eutopia on here, when more LAH releases are dispatched then those who enjoy the releases for whatever reason may be allowed to enjoy them without having to debate the issue. Now, that would be harmony!!!!!
Mitch

 

[Warbuff26]

I didnt want to post anything on this subject because, like Brad, I have expressed my views enough I feel.....but man....when are we going to see the U.S. Boy Scout figures? This range continues to live on and on so obviously it sells well....which is a shame. No US troops in Feb....but we get this stuff? As always....PASS! I'm glad we are so in love with the losers!

 

[Rob]

Whilst I don't collect these I know they are hugely popular, one of K&C's biggest sellers I understand, and the main thing is the hard won feedom given back to us at the end of the War means we are free to collect whatever we wish. Now if I could just win the freedom to spend, from my wife!

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Can these figures not be repainted to depict the US boy scouts?? I should assume it would be very easy
Mitch