Flaking Paint! (1 Viewer)

[Mitch]

does not look like a chemical reaction to me . Just slap dash inappropriate actions when they are being painted in the conveyor belt. As with any worker in a factory some will take shortcuts or do things which can affect the quality of the final product. Poor QC also not doing random checks on workers or checks on figures etc allow this too happen.

For a long time I thought K&C were immune to this issue but, its starting to grow in number and regularity. They need to address this quickly especially with prices rising and P ventures happening.
Mitch

Contacted the previous owner, a member of this forum, and don't believe these were stored or handled inappropriately. I purchased a few items from him, and didn't have a problem with everything. I'm somewhat of a perfectionist when it comes to most things, so don't handle figures unless my hands are clean. I actually had to lower my standards years ago, as I've received dinged/chipped/imperfect items from every manufacturer (I have products from at least 5 different manufacturers), but issues are usually small. The only other time I'm seen this myself, but to a lesser degree, was with set AK067, purchased a couple years ago. I pretty much decided I'd just touch it up, so didn't do anything at the time (of course I still haven't got to it...). At that time I received 5 different AK figures from the same time period, with the same theme (great coats). Others seem fine (just inspected them a few minutes ago just to double-check). What I'm seeing appears to be a trend though with some people having issues with the AK series released in 2010/09. Between the posts and sources I have I've noted the following have had issues with flaking to some degree: AK062, AK063, AK064, AK065, AK067, AK068. With the sets I'm familiar with directly the flesh color is the worst.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

There is no reason to believe either that poor workmanship or lack of QC Quality control is to blame here. Stirring the pot of accusations will not help the situation. What I would do myself is send Andy an E-Mail and see what he has to say
and what he may do for you here. Never have I heard of someone stating that they received poor customer service from King&Country. Just a positive suggestion RPK ^&cool

 

[cantinetozzo]

The figure i bought were new and out of factory, they were mainly AK from 2010 and various Club Figures.So i believe it was due to bad handling or bad quality paint at the factory.I repeat , i reccomend to check mainly CF and AK (i noticed also that certain colours have more often this problem , one of this is Prussia Blue of the coat of Kriegsmarine figures, i had the same problem of flaking with Doenitz ).

 

[rpk]

There is no reason to believe either that poor workmanship or lack of QC Quality control is to blame here. Stirring the pot of accusations will not help the situation. What I would do myself is send Andy an E-Mail and see what he has to say
and what he may do for you here. Never have I heard of someone stating that they received poor customer service from King&Country. Just a positive suggestion RPK ^&cool

Hum... not "stirring the pot" personally, I take a much more pragmatic view of things. Every vendor, in every arena, will have problems from time to time. To believe a company is 100% perfect is unrealistic. I posted my pictures to see if others have had similar issues. If they haven't, then it is likely an isolated incident. If others have had similar problems, then it may be a rare potential problem piece. As noted in a previous post I have had issues with pretty much every manufacturer over the years. To some degree it is the nature of manufacturing and shipping somewhat delicate pieces that sometimes problems may occur. K&C's quality control has been one of the best, which is why I continue to purchase their products.

I'll drop Andy a note to see what he thinks.

 

[Mitch]

rpk...

I don't think that point was aimed at you. I agree that it is totally unrealistic to expect everything to be wonderful in the manufacturers garden but, I would have said until recently that K&C have been a manufacturer that you would never have expected flaking paint to be associated with. Now, its rather common which means its either sloppy work at the work house and or poor QC (we know Andy does not paint these things himself so why the need to defend the company here ???) or, a change in material used which is not as good as once was.

It would be interesting to hear from a manufacturer on these issues but, I wonder if we will hear as with other makers that these issues happen there is silence usually.

Its not endemic but, certainly sufficient that collectors can ask about it with other collectors etc
Mitch

Hum... not "stirring the pot" personally, I take a much more pragmatic view of things. Every vendor, in every arena, will have problems from time to time. To believe a company is 100% perfect is unrealistic. I posted my pictures to see if others have had similar issues. If they haven't, then it is likely an isolated incident. If others have had similar problems, then it may be a rare potential problem piece. As noted in a previous post I have had issues with pretty much every manufacturer over the years. To some degree it is the nature of manufacturing and shipping somewhat delicate pieces that sometimes problems may occur. K&C's quality control has been one of the best, which is why I continue to purchase their products.

I'll drop Andy a note to see what he thinks.

 

[wayne556517]

Having a clean up and Ive found 3 figures (AK62 x 2 and AK068) off to see John.

 

[Northgate Woods]

Guys,
I think I must be the odd man out here. I have a very large collection of all AK vehicles and figures which are kept in glass shelved and glass walled showcases and only taken out for photos on a large dio board. This being said I have not had one which has paint flaking. Paint flaking has never been a problem in my modest K&C collection that also including a full range of the CF figures.
I can only put the problem down to what is on your fingers at time of handlng because if it was a priming, painting or packaging problem, surely I would of scored at least one of many thousand figures with this problem. Second hand purchases are always a worry to me because you have no idea who or what has "played"with them.
Just my "Welsh" two pennies worth.^&grin
Cheers Howard

 

[wayne556517]

Same here Howard 1 of my figures is on its 2nd visit to John,s so it ain't my meat and blood covered fingers........................^&grin

 

[Mr Scott]

Same here Howard 1 of my figures is on its 2nd visit to John,s so it ain't my meat and blood covered fingers........................^&grin

Dear All

Paint failure in any circumstance is a very complicated area. In the industrial environment paint failure is due to;

1. poor preparation, no key
2. poor preparation; not clean
3. poor preparation; not following manufacturers instructions
4. poor application; non adherence to over coating times
5. poor application;wrong thickness application (normally too thick)
6. poor application; wrong humidity / atmospheric conditions when applying the paint
7. paint stored in-correctly prior to application
8. paint use by date exceeded

and then there is the post ownership issues;

9. incorrect maintenance
10. accidental poor handling

However in a controlled environment I believe the two main (or most common) problems are;

a. non adherence to over coating times (painter trying to go to fast) and
b. bad batch of paint

A bad patch of paint, due mainly to the paint manufacture making a mistake or the supplier of raw materials to the paint manufacture making a mistake is more common than one might imagine.

It is like drinking an 'off' beer, no one dreams it happens, but it happens quite a lot.

It is quite simply to perform an adherence test to test surface preparation and only Andy knows what size paint drums he receives his paint ie the smaller the batch the greater chance of an isolated incident.

However if whose that have significant collections do not have paint issues, the Objective Quality Evidence suggests it is not a wide spread problem and signalling out 'bad preparation' has no factual significance.

Cheers

Scott

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Hum... not "stirring the pot" personally, I take a much more pragmatic view of things. Every vendor, in every arena, will have problems from time to time. To believe a company is 100% perfect is unrealistic. I posted my pictures to see if others have had similar issues. If they haven't, then it is likely an isolated incident. If others have had similar problems, then it may be a rare potential problem piece. As noted in a previous post I have had issues with pretty much every manufacturer over the years. To some degree it is the nature of manufacturing and shipping somewhat delicate pieces that sometimes problems may occur. K&C's quality control has been one of the best, which is why I continue to purchase their products.

I'll drop Andy a note to see what he thinks.

RPK, My apologies to you. I was not referring to "you" in any way stirring the pot. Refering to someone else. Good luck with this and hopefully things get sorted out :salute::

 

[Blowtorch]

There is no reason to believe either that poor workmanship or lack of QC Quality control is to blame here.

Unless the previous owner secretes HF from his pores, this is most certainly a factory issue. I'm not sure why that is a contentious point. For the sheer volume that K&C cranks out, and the number of years they have been doing it, this is but a hiccup.

As another poster pointed out, paint is a tricky medium and doesn't get the respect it deserves by society. It's a heterogeneous mixture, some paints quite different from others. Spooky stuff. When I was painting miniatures, I recall one particular Testors enamel (maybe Russian Armor Green) that required constant mixing. It was unforgiving. Give it a minute, and it would just crash.

Looking at the pattern of flaking suggests it was a particular stage in the painting process. Having spent years painting hundreds of 15mm figs & tanks myself, I am really surprised we don't see this more often than we do, especially imagining the working conditions of the artisans.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Unless the previous owner secretes HF from his pores, this is most certainly a factory issue. I'm not sure why that is a contentious point. For the sheer volume that K&C cranks out, and the number of years they have been doing it, this is but a hiccup.

As another poster pointed out, paint is a tricky medium and doesn't get the respect it deserves by society. It's a heterogeneous mixture, some paints quite different from others. Spooky stuff. When I was painting miniatures, I recall one particular Testors enamel (maybe Russian Armor Green) that required constant mixing. It was unforgiving. Give it a minute, and it would just crash.

Looking at the pattern of flaking suggests it was a particular stage in the painting process. Having spent years painting hundreds of 15mm figs & tanks myself, I am really surprised we don't see this more often than we do, especially imagining the working conditions of the artisans.

Who really knows what happened here ?????? No one. Several guesses and assumptions were already made about this topic. Until solid proof about what the cause is we all will never really know what the "actual" cause was.
Not my figures involved here and certainly nothing to get over anxious about. Already received a PM from one of our more well known posters here on the forum, taking this discussion to a comical level. Again hoping all the best
for the threads poster RPK . :salute::

 

[Blowtorch]

I had to go back looking for the comedy...didn't know if we were talking about the same thread. I see 6 collectors talking about flaking figs in at least four ranges, all recent figs Post Great Recession. Having spent about $10K on K&C during this time period, I'm not seeing the comedy.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I had to go back looking for the comedy...didn't know if we were talking about the same thread. I see 6 collectors talking about flaking figs in at least four ranges, all recent figs Post Great Recession. Having spent about $10K on K&C during this time period, I'm not seeing the comedy.

The PM that I received over this topic. The content was more ridiculous than comical. {sm3}

 

[rpk]

RPK, My apologies to you. I was not referring to "you" in any way stirring the pot. Refering to someone else. Good luck with this and hopefully things get sorted out :salute::

Thank you for the apology and clarification, I appreciate it. I respect everyone's opinion myself personally, and enjoy this hobby quite a bit. This thread was to simply collect some data/feedback on a situation I had not run into before in any serious manner. I suspect, as with most things in life, nothing is 100% and things happen from time to time (be it in manufacturing, user/human error, just plain bad luck, etc.). As a whole I've found the customer service of the vendors and manufacturers to be above and beyond that of most industries. To that end I have been in communication with Andy, and he is helping me sort out my issue.

Thanks to all who have provided information and/or offers of help.

-Rich (or 'rpk', which, oddly enough, I'm called at work!)

 

[Blowtorch]

I dug my Steinhausen out of storage & yep, he's flaking. About a mm on the kneecap. When I picked it up it was just the size of a pinhead, but I swiped my finger across it & more came off.

Oooops...now his calf is coming apart.

Yes, this is a factory issue


So boys, what else can I expect besides the figs already noted?

 

[Blowtorch]

I'm starting to get that queazy feeling that part of K&C's Great Recession cost cutting program was cheaper paint

 

[Simpson & his donkey.]

I have been lucky but no problems with my K&C figures. Chris.

 

[Mitch]

Does seem to be a specific period of time when these issues have begun to become more prevalent so, it makes you wonder what changes have been taken. I have figures from the very first releases of K&C and there is no issues. Does make one concerned at what will happen further down the line with other ranges. Would not like to see this become the norm when prices are rising so much
Mitch

I'm starting to get that queazy feeling that part of K&C's Great Recession cost cutting program was cheaper paint

 

[ostrein]

Recently I had some LAH figures which had small paint flakings. Easy to do on these black uniforms. Only small repairs really. I'm now check these guys frequently. The grey paint used on the LAH figure base seems to be more fragile.

last year I had a very nasty experiance with flaking paint on my AE figures. But I believe it was caused by the vanish (fumes) used in my self restored cabinet. But this horrible experiance was also the introduction to figure painting which has become a very nice add-on to my TS collection :smile2:

Oliver