Gestapo Staff Car Incident (5 Viewers)

[Rob]

Actually what is interesting is that it seems only the King and Country thread that inspires such disagreements. I've yet to see war break out in the Britains, Honour Bound, NMA or Figarti thread Maybe things aren't taken so personally over there.

Ok time to relax.

Now who was better Monty or Patton?


BTW Fallschirmjagers in Crete anyone?

Time to relax,with that question!!

Well James you you must have read my mind.I would love to see some Fallschirmjagers in Crete,and some British troops firing up at them of course.Who else thinks the Crete theatre would make a good area for Andy to visit?.

Rob

 

[Currahee Chris]

This is a rather wide and open forum, with a multitude of different and interesting personalities. Diversity is what Shannon and Pete are aiming for and I think this is what we have. I don't believe that there is any reason for any reluctance in putting forth an opinion and I don't also believe that there any members that are reluctant to do so. However, if anybody is reluctant to do so, Shannon, Pete and I would like to know that so we can use our best efforts to address any issues.

Brad and all my fellow froggers:

I feel perfectly comfortable posting anything I want on this forum (within the guidelines of course). With the amount of rubbish and nonsense I post up here anyway, I am suprised someone hasn't jumped down my throat but I haven't received any backlash whatsoever from my fellow collectors and I enjoy all correspondence with everyone. I got away from collecting toy soldiers for a couple years like a chump and every night I go to bed after reading the posts I am glad I am back home with my favorite hobby.

I think we could all agree that we toy soldier collectors are a unique and quirky lot worthy of any psychiatrist's Phd thesis. This is by far the best forum and forum community I have belonged to and consider it a privilege to be considered a frog with the rest of you groundpounders, even if this frog is getting a bit bulging round the waist.

Long live the Frog!!
CC

 

[damian]

I think the whole Gestapo staff car thing is a storm in a teacup. I mean Federal prisoners suffered and died at Andersonville, Indians scalping Rangers (conte , Frontline) and piles of dead Zulus (Conte) have all been done. What about the prisoner scene from the Battle of Berlin. That SS trooper looks like he is going to get a bullet in the back of the head pretty soon. What about the execution by firing squad from the BB series or Trophy's Horse thief diorama. K and C make some of the best toy soldiers around today. Furthermore the product is competitive price wise and is freely and readily available. Look how long other comapnies take to get product to market. I buy lots of K and C and will continue to do so. Let Mr Hennesy have his opinion. We want our press to be free. They cannot be if they are being dictated to by stake holders. Andy your product is great so let your sales do the talking. I think your sales and your products' enduring popularity speak volumes. I am looking forward to the Lancaster bomber and groundcrew that you have alluded to in your post.

Regards
Damian Clarke

 

[Louis Badolato]

I think the whole Gestapo staff car thing is a storm in a teacup. I mean Federal prisoners suffered and died at Andersonville, Indians scalping Rangers (conte , Frontline) and piles of dead Zulus (Conte) have all been done. What about the prisoner scene from the Battle of Berlin. That SS trooper looks like he is going to get a bullet in the back of the head pretty soon. What about the execution by firing squad from the BB series or Trophy's Horse thief diorama. K and C make some of the best toy soldiers around today. Furthermore the product is competitive price wise and is freely and readily available. Look how long other comapnies take to get product to market. I buy lots of K and C and will continue to do so. Let Mr Hennesy have his opinion. We want our press to be free. They cannot be if they are being dictated to by stake holders. Andy your product is great so let your sales do the talking. I think your sales and your products' enduring popularity speak volumes. I am looking forward to the Lancaster bomber and groundcrew that you have alluded to in your post.

Regards
Damian Clarke

Hear, hear! Damien. Especially the part about the Lanc and groundcrew!

 

[Ken Clarke]

Very good thread here so I thought I would add my tuppence worth:

I personally see no problems morally with this set at all; I wouldn’t buy it because this is not a period of history that I collect, but I am sure that if I was into collecting WW2 then it would be “on the list”!

My concern here is the possible future attitude of the various Toy Soldier, Military Modeling and Hobby Magazines towards manufacturers. If manufacturers send in models for a REVIEW, then should not these magazines under the review section appraise these models for quality of sculpting, quality of painting, pose and scale etc? Surely in this review section areas such as bad taste of the subject matter (in the opinion of the author) should not be covered? Indeed if the magazine has a problem with the subject matter then maybe they should not publish the review in the first place! Am I totally incorrect here?

There are a many gruesome sets, and in some people’s opinion “not politically correct” sets, on the market – we have one! Ours is two Ashigaru displaying 4 freshly severed heads. Our set might offend some but none the less it is a best seller.

As I have previously mentioned; in my opinion these magazines should review the quality of the figures only and if they do not like the subject matter not review them at all. They should then post a letter in the “letters page” stating why they are not reviewing them, with a reason, for all to see.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Very good thread here so I thought I would add my tuppence worth:

I personally see no problems morally with this set at all; I wouldn’t buy it because this is not a period of history that I collect, but I am sure that if I was into collecting WW2 then it would be “on the list”!

My concern here is the possible future attitude of the various Toy Soldier, Military Modeling and Hobby Magazines towards manufacturers. If manufacturers send in models for a REVIEW, then should not these magazines under the review section appraise these models for quality of sculpting, quality of painting, pose and scale etc? Surely in this review section areas such as bad taste of the subject matter (in the opinion of the author) should not be covered? Indeed if the magazine has a problem with the subject matter then maybe they should not publish the review in the first place! Am I totally incorrect here?

There are a many gruesome sets, and in some people’s opinion “not politically correct” sets, on the market – we have one! Ours is two Ashigaru displaying 4 freshly severed heads. Our set might offend some but none the less it is a best seller.

As I have previously mentioned; in my opinion these magazines should review the quality of the figures only and if they do not like the subject matter not review them at all. They should then post a letter in the “letters page” stating why they are not reviewing them, with a reason, for all to see.

You make another excellent point.

 

[Pierre]

Hi Ken-

Thanks for giving us your point of view.

Very interesting opinion on how to balance the expectations of the manufacturers and the freedom of expression of a magazine.

BTW, I never thought that the set presenting the heads was of bad taste as it was one of the first that I bought from EoI

Pierre.

 

[jazzeum]

Pierre,

Someone else mentioned that to me yesterday. They said what is the difference between the Gestapo set and the barbarian set. It's a good question. From my perspective, the difference is that what happened in Rome took place 2,000 years ago while the Gestapo set depicts events that took place just over 60 years ago. No one gets offended by events that long ago but events that happened 60 or so years ago are still recent memory.

 

[maddadicus]

Dear Ken, that is a fair and reasonable point. The magazine retains its objectivity and free speech rights and the mfg. would at least know the rules, when it comes to actual review vs an editorial opinion. My feeling is that K/C makes out in this, if they do not protest too much. Andy knows that this and other of his pieces are fence sitters ,when it comes to moral outrage vs an edgy ,unique ,gotta have piece. The darker stuff usually piques our interest and so he makes them every so often. And make no mistake about this, he also knows that there is always a chance that someone will have a moral issue against. That is business. Andy knew this day might happen as he pushes the bubble toward possible objectionable subject matter and if he would try to intimidate any reviewer, that makes him a hypocrit. He made the decision for this piece and knew all the possible consequences. For him to cry foul seems hollow ,in the face of his putting ths piece out in the first place...as an aside, had he put out a rescue party of Maqui set, to tie in with the car, there would had been no chance of an issue. But think about it, he chose not to, which meant there might have been a plan to evoke this discussion from the beginning , Michael

 

[Louis Badolato]

Well, I hope this set is not in bad taste, because along with the two Opal Trucks and the other Citroen, I just got it as a father's day present!

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

Very interesting thread. The subject matter is unique and will be thought provoking but is it in bad taste? Well I dont think so, but thats up to the individual collector. Will I purchase it? No because its not an era I collect but its a very real aspect of the 2d World War and has been shown in the movies of the era so I think its reasonable to produce it. So collect it or dont but dont try and force your personal moral out rage down our throats even through the free press.

Dave

 

[kilted vampire]

See guys, let me say this first. I can not believe we are still on this one but we are. So let me also say this. That if Stuart was really thinking was that some of the figures are a Tad gruesome than he is right. I will illustrate.




This is gruesome. It is also realistic. This may offend some viewers and or collectors. I myself will not buy this kind of figure. Technically speaking it is a work of art. It is well done in sculpting, and in painting. I do own some wounded figures. I do not really care for gory. They also exist in the toy world. Ultimately the figure buying community will decide what is right for them with their wallets. The same goes for magazines. If he keeps on like that against any manufacturer then I will not buy any more. It just happened that he blew up on K&C. Who is next? We are all entitled to opinions. If his is negative, do I as a consumer have the right to respond even if I am being critical. Freedom of speech is a guarantee in our country. I may not agree with him but I will defend etc etc.... Just remember it works BOTH ways.

We do not need moral crusaders in our toy world. There are enough unfortunately in the real world.

Enough said . I will waste no more time or energy on this.

 

[damian]

To quote John Cleese when he was talking about the Late Graham Chapman
" The wonderful thing about Graham was that he had such an impecable sense of bad taste"
Regards
Damian Clarke

 

[VIRIATO]

I have not collected WWII recently, but the Gestapo arrest set is surely on my wish list, as an exceptionally good one. Couldn't care less about any one else's opinion on this ( with all due respect ) or wether it is politically correct or not. It has quality written all over it, period.

 

[nmrocks]

Everybodies got an opinion and all are good, here's mine.
I would guess that the reviewer has a problem with the figure of the "Civilian" in the set.
I run into people all the time who tend to be as I call them "elitest", who think by virtue of there more educated or liberal philosiphy, think they hold the high ground moraly. These people ofton operate in a "philisophical vaccum" where reality has little to do with the way they see the world.
The civilian figure which he obviously believes to be an innocent, represents to him a crossing of the line, regardless of the fact that more civilians are killed in war now than combatants and are regularly targeted. while no one will question the number of innocents killed in France, the resistance was highly active and a serious inpediment to the Nazi overlords. I would like to see some consistancy in his opionion of the LAH line as well, but in the end it is only his personal moral point of view, and matters little.
Many would be more outraged by another manufacturer's full Roman orgy scene, with anatomically correct figures, what place does a set like that have in the "Toy Soldier" field? How about Conte's Nazi dominatrix figure?
I have no problem with any of these figures being made although I would never buy any of them. To me crossing the line is something along the lines of Jewish concentration camp killings or a Berlin russian rape scene.
As for K&C pulling it's ad's, I think that would be a mistake, unless the magazine began some sort of campaign to hurt K&C, you give the man way too much power by doing that.
The old saying, "say what you want, just spell my name correctly" applies here, I venture to say there will most probably be a spike in sales and K&C will come out ahead on it.
Ray

 

[OldCelt]

Everybodies got an opinion and all are good, here's mine.
I would guess that the reviewer has a problem with the figure of the "Civilian" in the set.
I run into people all the time who tend to be as I call them "elitest", who think by virtue of there more educated or liberal philosiphy, think they hold the high ground moraly. These people ofton operate in a "philisophical vaccum" where reality has little to do with the way they see the world.
The civilian figure which he obviously believes to be an innocent, represents to him a crossing of the line, regardless of the fact that more civilians are killed in war now than combatants and are regularly targeted. while no one will question the number of innocents killed in France, the resistance was highly active and a serious inpediment to the Nazi overlords. I would like to see some consistancy in his opionion of the LAH line as well, but in the end it is only his personal moral point of view, and matters little.
Many would be more outraged by another manufacturer's full Roman orgy scene, with anatomically correct figures, what place does a set like that have in the "Toy Soldier" field? How about Conte's Nazi dominatrix figure?
I have no problem with any of these figures being made although I would never buy any of them. To me crossing the line is something along the lines of Jewish concentration camp killings or a Berlin russian rape scene.
As for K&C pulling it's ad's, I think that would be a mistake, unless the magazine began some sort of campaign to hurt K&C, you give the man way too much power by doing that.
The old saying, "say what you want, just spell my name correctly" applies here, I venture to say there will most probably be a spike in sales and K&C will come out ahead on it.
Ray

Here! Here! Old Boy! Editorials belong on the appropriate page.
The best protest is with your wallet. We don't have to buy 'em. I don't collect the LAH stuff, but will buy the new Krup truck. Keeping the figs boxed.
I will also add the Gestapo Citreon as a parked vehicle to my command conference scene. O.C.

 

[Pierre]

...but will buy the new Krup truck. Keeping the figs boxed...

O.C.

Hi O.C.-

Don't forget that the two figures in the front are not removable (according to Preatorian).

Pierre.

 

[Rob]

I really like the look of that truck,i wonder if in future we may get another version of it?.

Rob

 

[damian]

Many would be more outraged by another manufacturer's full Roman orgy scene, with anatomically correct figures

If those figures are anatomically correct then one can only gaze in amazement.

Regards
Damian Clarke

 

[OldCelt]

Pierre. thanks for the heads up on the attached figures in the new Krupp trk.
Where there's a will there's a way.
O.C.