Gestapo Staff Car Incident (1 Viewer)

[Rob]

I thought Andy's reply was direct to the point and well thought out.It will be interesting to see the reply.My opinion is that although there is a line to drawn i don't think the Gestapo set went over that line.And we need to celebrate the efforts of all who fought to rid the world of the Nazi scum. This is a fascinating thread with many good posts from different view points,its whats so good about this forum,it gets us talking!.

Rob

 

[sirsydney]

I thought Andy's reply was direct to the point and well thought out.It will be interesting to see the reply.My opinion is that although there is a line to drawn i don't think the Gestapo set went over that line.And we need to celebrate the efforts of all who fought to rid the world of the Nazi scum. This is a fascinating thread with many good posts from different view points,its whats so good about this forum,it gets us talking!.

Rob

Although I would never buy the set, I have to agree that it didn't cross the line. I'm not evenreally offended by it. However, IMO, the new figures of Himmler, Bormann and the Nuremburg reviewing stand do move beyond almost any standards that one can use. I can see where thet serve any purpose except to glorify the Nazis.

 

[OzDigger]

That would actually make an amazing, if somber, diorama. I would proudly display it.

It would certainly be something different, which Andy seems to go for, and there is already a Panzer Meyer figure and vehicle available.

Personally I don't see a problem with the Gestapo staff car set as it gives us a tangible example of the sinister side of WWII and I feel that Andy's response included several relevant points. As several members have already pointed out I suspect the article will increase demand for the set.

 

[Pierre]

But as you say it is an opinion. No worries, huh? We can agree to disagree. N'cest pa?

Yes,

That's my point. Mr. Henssey gave his opinion, Mr. Neilson disagreed. Everything's fine. Why then bring the subject of the ad's money if Mr. Henssey is entitled to his opinion?

Have a nice day,
Pierre

 

[Rob]

I agree.You see i'm not 100% sure of how i feel about this set.The thing is the quality of this set shines through.It has all the hallmarks of King and Countrys outstanding product,but with a more edgy theme.I think having pondered it i will buy it as a tribute to those resistance fighters who suffered torture and death for the cause.I do not think it crosses the line and it is absurd to compare it to figures of prisoners being led to the Gas chambers.

And if you really want to take this to the extreme(!)We don't ACTUALLY know what happened to this chap,he may have been sent to a camp for the rest of the war.(I know what your thinking but it did happen now and again)


Rob

 

[Pierre]

I agree.You see i'm not 100% sure of how i feel about this set.The thing is the quality of this set shines through.It has all the hallmarks of King and Countrys outstanding product,but with a more edgy theme.I think having pondered it i will buy it as a tribute to those resistance fighters who suffered torture and death for the cause.I do not think it crosses the line and it is absurd to compare it to figures of prisoners being led to the Gas chambers.

And if you really want to take this to the extreme(!)We don't ACTUALLY know what happened to this chap,he may have been sent to a camp for the rest of the war.(I know what your thinking but it did happen now and again)


Rob

You see, incredible advertisement for the set and K&C

Pierre.

 

[Peter Reuss]

See gentlemen...here we have a higly controversial topic - one that many of you sharply disagree on. You have felt free to express your opinions and we have not degenerated into a 'I'm right - you're an idiot' discussion. This is how open discussion works!

It brings a tear to my eye...can we all hold hands and sing 'Kum Ba Ya?'

 

[jazzeum]

See gentlemen...here we have a higly controversial topic - one that many of you sharply disagree on. You have felt free to express your opinions and we have not degenerated into a 'I'm right - you're an idiot' discussion. This is how open discussion works!

It brings a tear to my eye...can we all hold hands and sing 'Kum Ba Ya?'

From what I can see most people seem to agree with Andy and those who oppose him are assailed. That is not the hallmark of free and open discussion. Whether or not you agree with Mr. Hessny, he has a right to an opinion and I like the fact that he expresses it, whether I agree with it or not. In newspapers, special sections are reserved for editorials and op-eds. If I were Mr. Hessny, I would made my criticism in a similar section, not in the article itself.

Many a newspaper editorialist has criticized an advertiser. In turn, the advertiser has probably complained to the business department but I doubt in more than a few instances have ads been pulled. As I mentioned elsewhere, the relationship is a mutually beneficial one. King and Country and other manufacturers help generate revenues for Toy Soldier and the wide readership that Toy Soldier gets helps generate revenues for manufacturers.

 

[Monty]

Pete

'Kum Ba Ya

Always forget the words to that one!!

Tony

Are you still in stock of this item?

Jake

 

[kilted vampire]

And if you really want to take this to the extreme(!)We don't ACTUALLY know what happened to this chap,he may have been sent to a camp for the rest of the war.(I know what your thinking but it did happen now and again)


Rob

I know what happened. The Nutzis were merely taking him to an all expense paid vacation to a resort hotel in Germany. And, all of a sudden like, what he fell down the same flight of stairs, several times!

 

[jazzeum]

Pete

'Kum Ba Ya

Always forget the words to that one!!

Tony

Are you still in stock of this item?

Jake

Ask and ye shall receive:

Kum ba yah means "Come by here."

Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!

Someone's laughing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone's laughing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone's laughing, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!

Someone's crying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone's crying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone's crying, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!

Someone's praying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone's praying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone's praying, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!

Someone's singing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone's singing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone's singing, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!

Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!

 

[Eazy]

From what I can see most people seem to agree with Andy and those who oppose him are assailed. That is not the hallmark of free and open discussion. Whether or not you agree with Mr. Hessny, he has a right to an opinion and I like the fact that he expresses it, whether I agree with it or not. In newspapers, special sections are reserved for editorials and op-eds. If I were Mr. Hessny, I would made my criticism in a similar section, not in the article itself.

Many a newspaper editorialist has criticized an advertiser. In turn, the advertiser has probably complained to the business department but I doubt in more than a few instances have ads been pulled. As I mentioned elsewhere, the relationship is a mutually beneficial one. King and Country and other manufacturers help generate revenues for Toy Soldier and the wide readership that Toy Soldier gets helps generate revenues for manufacturers.

Brad i agree with you 100% on this. I get dissapointed when anything slightly critical of K&C gets jumped on from all sides as this does not encourage open discussion.
I admit myself on these subjects to thinking very carefully before I write in case I offend anybody.
If that's the situation faced by me a long term poster I wonder how many other people out there on the forum are reluctant to post in case their ideas do not meet approval.

In this case i thought Andy's reply was very interesting and relevant but the business about advertising really let it down for me. I was even more dissapointed by comments from others like "show him (the reviewer) which side his bread is buttered."

To me this should be a King and Country discussion forum and as such any opinions should be welcome

 

[Pierre]

...If that's the situation faced by me a long term poster I wonder how many other people out there on the forum are reluctant to post in case their ideas do not meet approval.

Hi James-

Based on the private messages I received over the last months, a lot of members.

Pierre.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Brad i agree with you 100% on this. I get dissapointed when anything slightly critical of K&C gets jumped on from all sides as this does not encourage open discussion.
I admit myself on these subjects to thinking very carefully before I write in case I offend anybody.
If that's the situation faced by me a long term poster I wonder how many other people out there on the forum are reluctant to post in case their ideas do not meet approval.

In this case i thought Andy's reply was very interesting and relevant but the business about advertising really let it down for me. I was even more dissapointed by comments from others like "show him (the reviewer) which side his bread is buttered."

To me this should be a King and Country discussion forum and as such any opinions should be welcome

I think people on this forum tend to take these discussions a little to personally/seriously. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and should not be assailed for it.

There is certainly nothing wrong with honest constructive criticism, and as much as I love K&C products, there are other great manufacturers out there who do certain things as well or better than K&C, and that is wonderful for collectors and the hobby in general. No one should be afraid of calling a spade a spade. Where there is room for improvement, don't be afraid to call any manufacturer on it.

And those of us who love K&C and are good friends with Andy should refrain from being reactionary about criticism aimed at him. If it wasn't for criticism and competition, we may not have gotten the improved track detail and improved interior cabs with see through windshields/windows.

Finally, think before you post. Don't attack others personally, and be respecfull in tone, or make it clear that you are joking. Remember, the guys reading your posts can't see your facial expression and hear your tone of voice. What you mean as a tongue in cheek remark may come across as a nasty personal attack without access to expression/tone.

Everybody lighten up and enjoy this wonderful hobby!

 

[Rob]

Well said.It must be possible to discuss this tricky issue without insulting anyone.

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

This is a rather wide and open forum, with a multitude of different and interesting personalities. Diversity is what Shannon and Pete are aiming for and I think this is what we have. I don't believe that there is any reason for any reluctance in putting forth an opinion and I don't also believe that there any members that are reluctant to do so. However, if anybody is reluctant to do so, Shannon, Pete and I would like to know that so we can use our best efforts to address any issues.

Diversity is encouraged here but so is tolerance for other's views as well as appreciation for all kinds of toy soldiers from metal to glossy to plastic.

 

[wadepat]

Brad i agree with you 100% on this. I get dissapointed when anything slightly critical of K&C gets jumped on from all sides as this does not encourage open discussion.
I admit myself on these subjects to thinking very carefully before I write in case I offend anybody.
If that's the situation faced by me a long term poster I wonder how many other people out there on the forum are reluctant to post in case their ideas do not meet approval.

In this case i thought Andy's reply was very interesting and relevant but the business about advertising really let it down for me. I was even more dissapointed by comments from others like "show him (the reviewer) which side his bread is buttered."

To me this should be a King and Country discussion forum and as such any opinions should be welcome

Hi Easy,

Thank you for stating much of what I frequently feel. I do not know if I am a long term poster or not, but I have become extremely hesitant to post anything that includes the term "K&C" in my message. This hesitancy includes both positive and critical remarks. I hesitate to post positive remarks for fear of being identified as one of the "Defenders of the Realm" and I am hesitant to post critical remarks for fear of being assailed by the "Defenders of the Realm." In my case, what often gets forgotten is that I collect several lines of King and Country figures. I, in fact, like K&C figures very much and I am happy to have them in my collection, but I do not see them as the be all and end all of toy soldiering.

As Pierre has shared, I am aware of other forum members who are very guarded concerning any comments related to K&C and a few of them have almost discontinued posting anything at all. We all have personal preferences, opinions, and favorites and we all benefit when our comments are shared in a calm, respectful manner. Instead of creating conflict, our differences can create an atmosphere of shared learning and insightful thinking if we will but allow them to do so.

Having said all of the above, I want everyone to know I have thought long and hard before posting my remarks. I invite your reactions to my comments, but I have no interest in being assailed for them.

My warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[Eazy]

Actually what is interesting is that it seems only the King and Country thread that inspires such disagreements. I've yet to see war break out in the Britains, Honour Bound, NMA or Figarti thread Maybe things aren't taken so personally over there.

Ok time to relax.

Now who was better Monty or Patton?


BTW Fallschirmjagers in Crete anyone?

 

[Louis Badolato]

Actually what is interesting is that it seems only the King and Country thread that inspires such disagreements. I've yet to see war break out in the Britains, Honour Bound, NMA or Figarti thread Maybe things aren't taken so personally over there.

Ok time to relax.

Now who was better Monty or Patton?


BTW Fallschirmjagers in Crete anyone?

Definitely time to relax.

Its a race to the bottom between those two egomaniacs.

Would love fallschirmjagers in Crete.

 

[Pierre]

Actually what is interesting is that it seems only the King and Country thread that inspires such disagreements...

James-

You will note that people are not talking about K&C but about A.C. Neilson.

In my opinion, the answer is in that fact (remember that in a recent past, Mr. Neilson was called God and it was not a joke).

No one is bigger than the business, no one is bigger than the hobby and no one is bigger than forum.

The fact that TF be mainly devoted to K&C is absolutely correct as that manufacturer is the biggest one actually but to the owner... I have doubts on that.

Again, this is just my opinion.

Pierre.