Highland Light Infantry Band (2 Viewers)

[johnnybach]

Hi again - a new project for me this time - Scots in Trewsers - or Trews ( well - at least most of them will be).

Here's my first pic below - showing my prototype musician Bandsman - playing a Bombardon on the left. I usually paint one up to begin a project - in order to better understand how I'm going to best paint them. I have learned from this one, to do the trews last of all, so I can handle the piece better during painting. I also gave him a more robust stand - for the same reason - ease of handling.

The date for my Victorian Band, will be sometime around 1881 - or maybe a bit later. Under the Cardwell reforms of the Army at that time, this Regiment combined the former 71st and 74th Highlanders to form the HLI - with each former Regiment making up one of the two battalions. The 71st didn't get any drummers into their Pipe and Bugle Band until 1908 ( which must have made marching difficult), so I want to reserve the possibility of having a combined band from the two battalions incorporating four elements.

1. Military Band ( which I am just beginninng with these figures)
2. Pipers ( who will, of course wear the kilt)
3. Drummers
4. Buglers

Note that elements 2,3 & 4 will combine to form a separate Pipe,Drum and bugle Band (drummers and buglers wear Trews as well) - to precede the Military band on parade. My Military band will have 30 musicians ( Six ranks of Five) and will include its own small percussion section, as usual with such bands - as it is a self contained unit. [The Drum Major will lead the whole parade, by the way - so it's 31 pieces really]

Castings are all from Dorset Soldiers - though some will require modification - as they are drawn from several sources within Giles Brown's range of figures ( for which expertise - I am grateful to Giles for directing me). For example, my first figure is using a Bombardon with arms which don't have the "wings" at the shoulder - so these have to be modelled in during assembly ( from scratch). I made these using some flexible metalised material from a medicine bubble pack and some milliput and superglue - I'll show you how later in the project.

The interesting part for me is, of course, the trews - as I don't have a TS Highland band dressed as these - (which is really a Lowland Regimental distinction). Note my half dozen figures started in the pic - which also shows how I am starting to paint them - head and top half first - then fit arms and musical instruments - and then paint the trews/boots.base - last of all. I chose the date around 1881 in order to use the Mackenzie Tartan for both Battalions - as I read that the 74th wore the Lamont Tartan before adopting the new one (to them) around this time.

Whether these elements of bands from both Battalions actually ever played together in reality, is quite another story however - and one I don't know the answer to. BUT - in Toy Soldier form - in my cabinet - they certainly can!

We're off! - Johnny - where's yer trewsers - Johnnybach

 

[GICOP]

I am really looking forward to seeing this progress JB ^&cool

Cheers

Martyn

 

[johnnybach]

Me too Martyn. I have been reading, sketching and searching the web for quite a while looking for some of these - and Giles and I have had a few exchanges of correpondence and one visit, working a display out from examples from his range. I knew Marlborough made some sets - but they are painted - and don't include all of the instruments that I like to have. Their web-site was useful to see how at least part of it could look though, so I'm grateful to them for that.

There's also the possibility of taking these two bands on a bit further, later on. This old Regiment is one of the few that had Three Colours - so a Colour party - along with a marching Escort at some future point, would really set the whole thing off.

I have a total of 62 castings in my stash for these so far, lined up to make the four elements I outlined earlier ( Eight pipers, 13 drummers and ten buglers to add to the Military Band) - so with the addition of a Colour Party and Escort ( say another twenty) - I could have a really nice shelfull to display (no boxes again though!^&grin). That should do me just nicely.

Still - one down - 61 more to go before then I'm painting up the front rank of two Bombardons (my favourite instrument) and three Trombones first - so watch out for them later.

See you later? jb

 

[trooper]

Which drum major will you be depicting, Johnny? There are major differences between the 1st and 2nd Battalions. Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

Which drum major will you be depicting, Johnny? There are major differences between the 1st and 2nd Battalions. Trooper

Funnily enough Trooper, that's a decision that I've been putting off until later, ( which really means, I'm undecided). I'm currently reading "The Highland Light Infantry" (1969) by L B Oatts - with a view to getting a clearer idea of where each Battalion was at the time (1881 onwards). At the moment, I'm favouring the 1st Btn., as they were in England for a short time - whilst the 2nd was in Egypt - and still partly in the lamont Tartan for a couple of years.

Would you have a couple of pics of both, by any chance? - Good pics of the band seem like hen's teeth! - so would really be appreciated if you have. I'm using this illustration of a Bandsman by Mackenzie at the moment for the musicians (below) - and will be using it for my Pipers too later on. I also have some pics by Harry Payne - which agree with that form of dress.

You may notice that my castings also have the short bandsman's sword cast in to the figure. I have a feeling that by the 1880's and onwards - they wouldn't have still been carrying them. They would really need paring and filing off - to make the figures more authentic - but I have left them on - as I just like the look of them with these figures.

 

[Martin Tabony]

I've got this book, (I used it when I made mine) If Trooper dooesn't post the pics I will when I get back from the shops.:smile2: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Highland-Light-Infantry-Uniforms-1881-1914/dp/0950546100

Martin

 

[aujj65]

The beginnings of another good thread JB! .....62 castings will keep you occupied for a while.

Jeff:salute::

 

[johnnybach]

I've got this book, (I used it when I made mine) If Trooper dooesn't post the pics I will when I get back from the shops.:smile2: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Highland-Light-Infantry-Uniforms-1881-1914/dp/0950546100

Martin

Hi Martin - Thanks for the offer - I should have known that either yourself or Trooper would have some info on them. Hadn't seen that book before - will look out for a copy. Vanished Armies doesn't show a drummie!!! ( though does have a bandmaster). Didn't know that you made a version yourself. Do you have a pic or two of them you could show??? Happy shopping - look out for any special offers.^&grinjb

Hi Jeff - Will take a while - but by breaking the elements down into bite-sized chunks - it doesn't seem quite so daunting. I'm quite encouraged by how the first one turned out. I also didn't get tempted into buying the Colour Party and Escort yet - otherwise it would have been 80+ figures.{eek3}

 

[Martin Tabony]

Hi Martin - Thanks for the offer - I should have known that either yourself or Trooper would have some info on them. Hadn't seen that book before - will look out for a copy. Vanished Armies doesn't show a drummie!!! ( though does have a bandmaster). Didn't know that you made a version yourself. Do you have a pic or two of them you could show??? Happy shopping - look out for any special offers.^&grinjb

Hi Jeff - Will take a while - but by breaking the elements down into bite-sized chunks - it doesn't seem quite so daunting. I'm quite encouraged by how the first one turned out. I also didn't get tempted into buying the Colour Party and Escort yet - otherwise it would have been 80+ figures.{eek3}

You know what, I've not painted any for ages. They're part of my range that no one ever saw! I'll paint some up to show you but I'll leave you to do the "how to"!
In the mean time I'm just going through what info I have for you.(I'm still guessing Trooper has more though!^&grin)

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

You know what, I've not painted any for ages. They're part of my range that no one ever saw! I'll paint some up to show you but I'll leave you to do the "how to"!
In the mean time I'm just going through what info I have for you.(I'm still guessing Trooper has more though!^&grin) Martin

I'm sure he does - I swear he must live in an Annexe of some military Museum ( or maybe it's the main building) - he has so much stuff you can't find anywhere else!

I seem to recall reading somewhere on the internet that you were making some HLI - but never seem to be able to find any pictures of any finished product. Were they never marketed? Seems a shame - as they could look quite splendid. I have a few pics of some made by the late Richard Newth-Gibbs - these are two - Drum Major and Bugle major - but don't know from which Battalion they were. If all else failed - I was going to make my Drum major up to look like this one. jb

 

[Martin Tabony]

I'm sure he does - I swear he must live in an Annexe of some military Museum ( or maybe it's the main building) - he has so much stuff you can't find anywhere else!

I seem to recall reading somewhere on the internet that you were making some HLI - but never seem to be able to find any pictures of any finished product. Were they never marketed? Seems a shame - as they could look quite splendid. I have a few pics of some made by the late Richard Newth-Gibbs - these are two - Drum Major and Bugle major - but don't know from which Battalion they were. If all else failed - I was going to make my Drum major up to look like this one. jb

They had some unusual traditions for instance the 1st Battalion called drummers "Bugler" and the 2nd Battalion called buglers "Drummer"!

 

[Martin Tabony]

Here's what I've located so far. Both groups are described as 2nd Battalion but one shows bandsmans cross belt the other doesn't.

 

[theBaron]

Nice project, John! I always enjoy following along as you work on a project. And I'm with Martin--it's been a while since I've picked up a brush, other things getting in between. You're giving me a push to resume work.

Looking forward to your next installment, especially your sculpting work.

Prost!
Brad

 

[johnnybach]

Here's what I've located so far. Both groups are described as 2nd Battalion but one shows bandsmans cross belt the other doesn't.

Thanks for the input of pics martin - some of which I've never seen before. This is what makes the Forum so enjoyable for me - seeing things like that , that also help push forward a project that's been in my mind for a lengthy period of time.

Yes - to the different traditions( re: "drummers and buglers" - I've also read that for around fifty years, each Battalion of the new "Regiment" - still insisted on calling themseves 71st - or 74th Rgt! There was also no interchange of Officers between battalions. Now - that's not a marriage - that's an enforced co-existance!!!! ( A bit like - we stayed together for the Kids argument!^&grin)

Nevertheless - in the interest of harmony - I'm determined to show ................"A Regiment"..............They may not like each other ....but they are LEGALLY married!

Thanks - and - Out to you....................


Hey Brad - it's easy - just pick up that brush!!!!!: You're too good to leave it alone............:wink2:jb

 

[trooper]

Johnny, here are some of the differences between the two battalions. Will post some pictures later once I've re-sized them all.
Colours...Both battalions adopted yellow facings after the 1881 re-organisation, but the !st carried on carrying their buff regimental colour and the 2nd their white emblazoned with the red cross of St. George. The 1st Btn wore the colour carriage over the right shoulder and supported the colour with the left hand while the 2nd Btn wore it over the left shoulder supporting the staff with the right hand. The 2nd Btn also carried a third (Assaye) colour.

Officers...Swords carried by the 1st Btn had a straight cross bar guard, the 2nd Btn had basket hilted broadswords. Mounted officers of both battalions carried triple bar hilted swords as neither of the other patterns had sword knots to secure them to the wrist. 1st Btn officers wore their sash over the sword belts, 2nd Btn under. 1st Btn wore their sword belt plates high on the right breast, 2nd Btn wore them central on the chest. Caplines of the 1st Btn were worn looped around the plaid brooch, the 2nd Btn looped up to the epaulette button.

Bugle Majors... !st Btn wore the shako with a feather plume and carried the short bugle cane. 2nd Btn wore the feather bonnet and carried a drum major's mace, the bugle cane was only carried in field marching order.

Drums... 1st Btn had the Royal Coat of Arms surmounted by a gold scroll as the central device, 2nd Btn had a stand of colours with the Assaye colour in the centre.
No Corps of Drums in 1st Btn until 1908 except for side drummer and bass drummer in band. 2nd Btn drummers wore bugle badges on right sleeve instead of drum.

Pipers... There were differences in the lace on the wings between the battalions. Pipers of both battalions wore white sporrans with three tassels but the pipe majors both had six gold tassels. Trooper

 

[Martin Tabony]

Thanks for the input of pics martin - some of which I've never seen before. This is what makes the Forum so enjoyable for me - seeing things like that , that also help push forward a project that's been in my mind for a lengthy period of time.

Yes - to the different traditions( re: "drummers and buglers" - I've also read that for around fifty years, each Battalion of the new "Regiment" - still insisted on calling themseves 71st - or 74th Rgt! There was also no interchange of Officers between battalions. Now - that's not a marriage - that's an enforced co-existance!!!! ( A bit like - we stayed together for the Kids argument!^&grin)

Nevertheless - in the interest of harmony - I'm determined to show ................"A Regiment"..............They may not like each other ....but they are LEGALLY married!

Thanks - and - Out to you....................


Hey Brad - it's easy - just pick up that brush!!!!!: You're too good to leave it alone............:wink2:jb

One tradition that is shown in Vanished armies, plat 17 figure 170. Notice the four pleats down the tunic back. The story goes that a young officer instructed his tailor to use the regulation, ONE, FOUR inch pleat but the tailor mistakenly stitched in FOUR,ONE inch pleats! Anyway he wore the tunic and was seen by the Colonel. The Colonel liked it and thus is born a regimental tradition!
I can't lay my hands on that book as yet, but the figures you show agree with the Drum Major ecept I'm pretty sure he had wings.

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

Johnny, here are some of the differences between the two battalions. Will post some pictures later once I've re-sized them all.
Colours...Both battalions adopted yellow facings after the 1881 re-organisation, but the !st carried on carrying their buff regimental colour and the 2nd their white emblazoned with the red cross of St. George. The 1st Btn wore the colour carriage over the right shoulder and supported the colour with the left hand while the 2nd Btn wore it over the left shoulder supporting the staff with the right hand. The 2nd Btn also carried a third (Assaye) colour.

Officers...Swords carried by the 1st Btn had a straight cross bar guard, the 2nd Btn had basket hilted broadswords. Mounted officers of both battalions carried triple bar hilted swords as neither of the other patterns had sword knots to secure them to the wrist. 1st Btn officers wore their sash over the sword belts, 2nd Btn under. 1st Btn wore their sword belt plates high on the right breast, 2nd Btn wore them central on the chest. Caplines of the 1st Btn were worn looped around the plaid brooch, the 2nd Btn looped up to the epaulette button.

Bugle Majors... !st Btn wore the shako with a feather plume and carried the short bugle cane. 2nd Btn wore the feather bonnet and carried a drum major's mace, the bugle cane was only carried in field marching order.

Drums... 1st Btn had the Royal Coat of Arms surmounted by a gold scroll as the central device, 2nd Btn had a stand of colours with the Assaye colour in the centre.
No Corps of Drums in 1st Btn until 1908 except for side drummer and bass drummer in band. 2nd Btn drummers wore bugle badges on right sleeve instead of drum.

Pipers... There were differences in the lace on the wings between the battalions. Pipers of both battalions wore white sporrans with three tassels but the pipe majors both had six gold tassels. Trooper

So..............easy-peasy eh?

They just didn't want to get married eh?^&grin Well - concentrating on the Military Band first (for now), I'll need to make the facing colour more yellow than the buff I was using - that's okay. Thanks for the offer of pics later - that'll be extremely useful - and much appreciated - saves overpainting later. I think I chose the easiest option to begin with - so will get a tad more tricky ( but NOT impossible) later on. Thanks for the help of both of you so far - has stopped me making major errors later.

A complicated merger - eh? jb

 

[johnnybach]

One tradition that is shown in Vanished armies, plat 17 figure 170. Notice the four pleats down the tunic back. The story goes that a young officer instructed his tailor to use the regulation, ONE, FOUR inch pleat but the tailor mistakenly stitched in FOUR,ONE inch pleats! Anyway he wore the tunic and was seen by the Colonel. The Colonel liked it and thus is born a regimental tradition!
I can't lay my hands on that book as yet, but the figures you show agree with the Drum Major ecept I'm pretty sure he had wings.

Martin

I always intended to give him wings. Don't know why - except it just looks so right!. Can you imagine a Drummie with a band behind him - all wearing wings - NOT to have them himself???? Mind you - the Bandmaster (Plate 5 fig 46 "Vanished Armies" doesn't - but he's 2nd Btn!).

No way McTavish! jb

 

[johnnybach]

By the way - to both of you - thank you for your time and trouble in trying to help me out ( so far) - with a complicated Regiment. As I've frequently said before - but really mean it - MUCH appreciated. johnnybach

 

[trooper]

2nd Btn Bugle Major did not wear wings, had officer's style twisted shoulder cords instead. Attached are some pictures you might find useful. The stand of colours is similar to the image on the front of the 2nd Btn drums. Note the lace on the piper's wings showing the differences between the 1st and 2nd. The regiment reverted to buff facings in 1899 but the differences weren't reconciled until 1906 when the uniforms were standardised. New buff colours were presented in 1902.