In Defense of the Red Lancer ! (5 Viewers)

[Capitolron]

Gentlemen (and Ladies)

I have read some interesting posts on the rise of RETAIL cost of K&C Toy Soldiers and its impact on our desire to further collect these items.

I am no big fan of the rising costs of our hobby like everyone else who has posted these concerns. K&C is allowing a chance for the competition to "take a shot" if its prices keep rising and theirs stay the same. (and we havent seen the competition be able to do that just yet either) But, when you look at the K&C numbers closely - compared to the quality and pose of the figure the cost increase is not that out of line.

Two years ago (I believe) - late 2006 - King & Country released a great little 5 figure sub-set of the Napoleonic Range ..... "The Escort For An Emperor" - Imperial Guard Chasseurs - which are simply wonderful figures in many ways. These figures have terrific detail and worthy of any Napoleon Collectors - Collection !

I bring this up - because I feel you should compare these figures from two years ago to the RED LANCERS.

If you review the price of NA 91 - Chasseur Officer - $65.00 USD , NA 94 - Chasseur Trumpeter - $65.00 and the NA 93 - Flagbearer - $69.00 - you will see in my opinion the cost value of these liked figures to the RED LANCERS is not out of bounds.

You can make a further argument that since most of the RED LANCERS are carring a Flagged Lance - this would put them in the same field with a FLAGBEARER in cost. (Since Flagbearers - as we all know - do have a small higher cost than other liked mounted figures) Look at these RED LANCERS and look at the detail with the separate LANCE at the side - outstanding - and at $79.00 USD.

So as you look at the pictures here you can see the same type of great detail and motion in these CHASSEURS that we now find with the $79.00 RED LANCERS. A $10 - $14 USD cost increase in the last two years with the way the economy - production cost - currency rates and everything else in the world is not out of the question and quite reasonable.

Nobody likes cost increases and I for one am always looking for "a real deal" too ! But, rising costs for these luxury items are something we will have to deal with. We have heard this before and it is true - King & Country is a business - it needs to be profitable to stay in business and that is a fact.

I do not believe that a $5 - $7 USD in crease per year on detailed items like these Mounted Figures is unreasonable. I just thought you should look at this situation from a different historic view - instead of just reacting to the pocketbook pinch.

Now - there will come a time where these cost increases can price these little figures out of the market - I simply just dont believe we are there yet.

Anyway my humble opinion on the matter and I am certainly interested in discussing it with everyone on the forum.

 

[tdubel]

Ron,

the price comparison on these may not be as much, I think the real heavy jump is on vehicles which is the tougher one to take. Who knows, see how it plays out. I personally have a ton of the really old and semi old vehicles and for the most part am set there. The major one this year that threw me is the Dragon, that is a little steep IMO. I have a feeling it will sell as the Sherman and the Panzer Meyer vehicle did, again IMO.

Tom

 

[Capitolron]

Another point I forgot to mention - I believe the KCS - Mounted Napoleonic Series started in 2005 (not sure on the date) and the KCS 74 - Vistula Polish Lancer was priced at $65.00 USD.

Now that in scale of what is being charge for the RED LANCER today - further proves my point - this cost increase is not out of line with the market.

Lets Talk About It !

KCS 74 - A WONDERFUL FIGURE !

 

[Capitolron]

Ron,

the price comparison on these may not be as much, I think the real heavy jump is on vehicles which is the tougher one to take. Who knows, see how it plays out. I personally have a ton of the really old and semi old vehicles and for the most part am set there. The major one this year that threw me is the Dragon, that is a little steep IMO. I have a feeling it will sell as the Sherman and the Panzer Meyer vehicle did, again IMO.

Tom

Tom

I agree the WWII vehicles are another story - I was reacting to the comments made about the NAPOLEONICS and the new Red Lancer release.

Again - I am no fan of increase prices - but in the Napoleonic World it is not out of the question the small increases occuring here.

Ron

 

[Gazza]

Ron

I started the thread because I collect Napoleonics and thought the lancers were great but expensive.

You comparison is interesting but here is another far more recent one...

Crimean War Lancers GBP 68 and Polish Lancers GBP 78...

I fully appreciate that there are FX movements but other costs are reducing since these came on the market....

Tom

I agree the WWII vehicles are another story - I was reacting to the comments made about the NAPOLEONICS and the new Red Lancer release.

Again - I am no fan of increase prices - but in the Napoleonic World it is not out of the question the small increases occuring here.

Ron

 

[lancer]

Hello all. Just to go off course for a moment, does anyone know if the new Red Lancer pennons are correct white over red as oppossed to red over white? Every illustration I have ever seen of the Red Lancers has been red over white. Just curious. -- lancer

 

[Capitolron]

Wow ! Are you sure about that ?

If that is the case then you need to buy your RED LANCERS in AMERICA !

I know this little shop with a green frog that sells Red Lancers for GBP 54.08 each ! You should check them out !

Ron

I started the thread because I collect Napoleonics and thought the lancers were great but expensive.

You comparison is interesting but here is another far more recent one...

Crimean War Lancers GBP 68 and Polish Lancers GBP 78...

I fully appreciate that there are FX movements but other costs are reducing since these came on the market....

 

[Gazza]

Yes - got it straight off of K&C UK website.

If you sign up to them (free) you can get c.10% off; which I do

Problem with shipping from US is import tax of c.30% plus the handling fee of Fed-ex, DHL etc for paying the tax for you. That assumes you spend $500 and get free shipping !!!

I have done all my sums and basically it works out roughly the same

I think K&C are great - just getting pricey

Wow ! Are you sure about that ?

If that is the case then you need to buy your RED LANCERS in AMERICA !

I know this little shop with a green frog that sells Red Lancers for GBP 54.08 each ! You should check them out !

 

[fishead19690]

Ron thats all well and good for you that you can afford these new over priced figures and welcome new higher prices when all oil and steel prices are dropping and you look forward to a yearly price increase.but I can no longer afford to pay these prices and I HAVE hit my price cut off limit and can no longer collect these figures at these prices.
A $17 price jump is just plane out of control in my book. Maybe if I sell my older retired figures on Ebay for 5 or 6 times there orginal value I might be able to remain a K&C collector. I,m sorry Ron but these prices are uncalled for and all the other manafactures have not had to make these price increases and there not even based in hong kong like K&C.
This is just a greed issue in my book. K&C was once a great figure at an affordable price. ONCE!!!

 

[thebritfarmer]

Ron thats all well and good for you that you can afford these new over priced figures and welcome new higher prices when all oil and steel prices are dropping and you look forward to a yearly price increase.but I can no longer afford to pay these prices and I HAVE hit my price cut off limit and can no longer collect these figures at these prices.
A $17 price jump is just plane out of control in my book. Maybe if I sell my older retired figures on Ebay for 5 or 6 times there orginal value I might be able to remain a K&C collector. I,m sorry Ron but these prices are uncalled for and all the other manafactures have not had to make these price increases and there not even based in hong kong like K&C.
This is just a greed issue in my book. K&C was once a great figure at an affordable price. ONCE!!!

I have to agree with fish on this one and Britains is bringing out some truly knock out pieces (every bit as good as K&C) IMO and certainly not as expensive.

 

[fishead19690]

I have to agree with fish on this one and Britains is bringing out some truly knock out pieces (every bit as good as K&C) IMO and certainly not as expensive.

With the economy the way it is, I hope these price increases come back to bite him!
I don,t know how the rest of the world is looking but in the usa these are not times to be smacking us with these new prices.
My company has laid off over 3/4 off its work force and the whole building trade is in the same boat as us.(SINKING!!!)

Now to make these price increases at a time like this???

 

[nmrocks]

I feel the pain of a poor economy and price increases as well, but you guys are kinda pathetic acting like this is something personel, Greed!?!, give me a break, I doubt very seriously Andy is turning into a multi millionare in this business. I can see by his agenda and the quality of the work that he works very hard at it. While others may be less expensive, in the end the difference is reflected in the quality and to me there's still no comparison with the rare few exceptions.
So you guys gripe and moan and buy all the other brands, I'll stick to the best and shop the second hand market for the most part where there are some great bargains to be had on older sets.
Hard times will pass and I'll resume my new purchase rate then.
But really guys, don't make this personal, cause it's not unless you make it so.
Andy's got a business to run and many families rely on him for there income and he's not going to kill his business to get rich.
Ray

 

[jazzeum]

I have to agree with Ray that some of these comments seem a little emotional. No one likes price increases (and I refuse to pay $299 for an item that I'm sure will show up on ebay in the near future at $200) but this is a business and we all have to allocate our budgets accordingly. To mix emotion in this in what is a dollars and cents question is not helpful and merely confuses the issues. Spending on something should not be based on emotion. If you don't like the prices, don't buy; it's as simple as that. If product doesn't move, we may see some scurrying at the head offices.

 

[Gazza]

I posted the Napoleonics thread - no emotion involved. Don't agree with the personal stuff and stirring around boycotts (predictable from some)

What I DO want to understand is a justificatgion of the significant price increases. Andy was on here a few months ago talking about increasing costs of oil / staff / raw material etc ... the world has moved on rapidly since then and so I want to understand why they are so dear ... again when you compare Crimean and Napoleonic Lancers.

I know part of the reason would be FX movement.

The option not to buy is there; however, that does not stop us asking for a justification for the price or challenging the pricing. This forum is to discuss K&C; not an extension of K&C marketing, so it is my response to the dispatches.

In my job on a day to day basis if something appears too expensive, I challenge it.

 

[VanguardFC007]

To respond to Gazza I bring in this... when gas is bought at say $100 a barrel on one day, that doesnt affect us at the pump for up to 3 months sometimes.

So in this line of thought I say this: It is quite possible that the materials Mr. Neilson used for the lancers were bought at the time when prices of raw goods were high. If that is the case I think it logical for him to then sell the product at the cost he would sell them at due to the rising cost of the materials. Now that those prices have fallen I would bet that Mr. Neilson will price future figures based on the prices he is paying for the raw goods.

Harris

 

[nmrocks]

To respond to Gazza I bring in this... when gas is bought at say $100 a barrel on one day, that doesnt affect us at the pump for up to 3 months sometimes.

So in this line of thought I say this: It is quite possible that the materials Mr. Neilson used for the lancers were bought at the time when prices of raw goods were high. If that is the case I think it logical for him to then sell the product at the cost he would sell them at due to the rising cost of the materials. Now that those prices have fallen I would bet that Mr. Neilson will price future figures based on the prices he is paying for the raw goods.

Harris

Harris,
I think you've hit the nail on the head, We've all heard from Andy most of the line is planned out nearly a year in advance, these have been in development and production for months, hence the purchase of raw materials and labor was also done months ago, probably in the beginning or height of the summer when commodities peaked. the drop in prices has been very steep and has happened in a very short period of time to arrive where they are now.
ray

 

[Gazza]

If it really is that simple why are prices of most goods tumbling then...What about flights prices; they bought oil at $150 a barrel; now it is $39?!! Markets respond far quicker today than at any point in history.

I am not sure that K&C is that large that it hedges it's purchases; with delivery 1-2 months away I am sure they are not paying peak prices

We can all speculate but I would just like to hear Andy's thoughts...

Harris,
I think you've hit the nail on the head, We've all heard from Andy most of the line is planned out nearly a year in advance, these have been in development and production for months, hence the purchase of raw materials and labor was also done months ago, probably in the beginning or height of the summer when commodities peaked. the drop in prices has been very steep and has happened in a very short period of time to arrive where they are now.
ray

 

[damian]

If you drop a frog into hot water it jumps out. If you put it in tepid water it swims. You heat the tepid water slowly it does not jump out as it gets used to it. You heat the water all the way till it boils and you get a boiled frog.
Perhaps it is the same with prices?

 

[Jagdpanther]

Ron maybe you make a better income then most and you dont mind the price increase. I dont welcome the new prices and its to bad there going up but what can you do? I guess you have to go along with it buy what you can or not and hope for the best. But I dont believe its gonna get any better.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Ron maybe you make a better income then most and you dont mind the price increase. I dont welcome the new prices and its to bad there going up but what can you do? I guess you have to go along with it buy what you can or not and hope for the best. But I dont believe its gonna get any better.

In all fairness lads, I don't think Ron said he didn't mind the increase, only that it was closer to $5-7 per year rather than the larger increase most were citing if you compare the quality of these figures to earlier mounted K&C figures of comparable detail. I think Ron's comparison is rather compelling.

Frankly, given the competition in this area, I seriously doubt anyone would arbitrarily try and pad their increases at this point. It is unfortunate to see rising prices in this environment, which inevitably will mean that some of us will have to restrict our purchases, but there would seem nothing here to suggest the price change is anything more than cost driven IMHO.