Is first legion edge cutting. (1 Viewer)

[Vezzolf]

Interesting points Simon but I don't think they addressed the points about cutting edge. Does TG fall into that category? Not at all. Their game plan is to be a mini K & C, hardly innovative. They're just trying to fill parts of the market that they think K & C has missed, and not as well in my opinion. On the other hand, as I mentioned previously, FL has successfully brought Russian style painting to the ts world, so much so that Aeroart feels threatened by them. That is true innovation: doing something others haven't done before.

Your post is a good primer on what makes a good figure but that is not what Simmo originally asked.

Well Said Brad....The definition of "Cutting Edge" clearly explained....Thank you

 

[jazzeum]

Michael highlighted this point here and I wasn’t thinking to put nobody down; it was only my thoughts on glossy...and I still thinking that they all look the same, it doesn’t matter if is Zulu War, or Durbar series. If you collect them, good for you, I do respect that, I have goods friends that collect lots of glossy, and wouldn’t not stop me to say to them as I say here, that for me it is only small soldiers that has little detail that shine too much...
I do not see any reason to start to cry about this...

Critique is the lifeblood of improvement....{eek3}

I really do have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Rod. No, glossy figures do not have as much detail as matte but it's a different mind set, they are not trying to do that. However, there is a certain charm to glossy figures that matte does not have. I would direct you to the Trophy section of the Forum to take a look. Have you ever had a chance to take a look at Somerset figures? They are outstanding figures, some of the best made, gloss or matte. See below for an example.



Regards,

Brad

 

[lancer]

I really do have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Rod. No, glossy figures do not have as much detail as matte but it's a different mind set, they are not trying to do that. However, there is a certain charm to glossy figures that matte does not have. I would direct you to the Trophy section of the Forum to take a look. Have you ever had a chance to take a look at Somerset figures? They are outstanding figures, some of the best made, gloss or matte. See below for an example.

View attachment 82429

Regards,

Brad

All right, Brad! Somerset is an outstanding manufacturer. One of the best in the whole hobby. {bravo}} -- Al

 

[nysoldiers]

I agree with Brad......Glossies may not have the detailed painting of some matte makers but in many cases their sculpting and action poses are more creative. Besides Somerset companies such as ATS, Little Legion, trophy, Tedtoy, Imperial and Tommy Atkins can compete with any company in sculpting and poses.

 

[lancer]

I agree with Brad......Glossies may not have the detailed painting of some matte makers but in many cases their sculpting and action poses are more creative. Besides Somerset companies such as ATS, Little Legion, trophy, Tedtoy, Imperial and Tommy Atkins can compete with any company in sculpting and poses.

Would like to add Regal/SoW to that list.:wink2:^&grin -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

Would like to add Regal/SoW to that list.:wink2:^&grin -- Al

Didn't mean to leave out anybody but I know Regal is outstanding.

Also, were it not for companies like Trophy who inspired Andy Nielson to form K & C, which led to the matte figure, which begat all the other matte manufacturers we have today, we're not even having this discussion because there ain't no Forum! {eek3}

Brad

 

[debrito]

I really do have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Rod. No, glossy figures do not have as much detail as matte but it's a different mind set, they are not trying to do that. However, there is a certain charm to glossy figures that matte does not have. I would direct you to the Trophy section of the Forum to take a look. Have you ever had a chance to take a look at Somerset figures? They are outstanding figures, some of the best made, gloss or matte. See below for an example.

View attachment 82429

Regards,

Brad

Good morning Brad, How are you?
Very nice pose!
I looked every set on this forum, there are many interesting figures and sets, and I do enjoy have a look every time different figures and sets appear.
I enjoy Conrad’s (KOGU) collection; he has a very nice British Empire mounted horse figures.

The best glossy I saw

BUT STILL TOO GLOSSY..{eek3}

I am always seeking to see as much as details as possible on a single figure, well sculpted and painted (clothes and anatomy) and glossy does not offers this opportunity.. this why I think that no much debate is necessary.

Abrazo
Rod.

 

[Firebat]

Interesting to see the words 'sculpting' and 'painting' used many times throughout this thread, with a view to establishing what makes a superior figure.

My view is that both the painting and sculpyting (if people are using this as a generic term) can be divided up in to a lot more areas.

Whilst some of the high end Russian figures are quite obviously incredibly detailed (and I could only dream of achieving anything close to this level), there are a number of things I would look at re the paint work.

Brightness / colour - Whilst acepting that some of the colours used on K&C (and more recently CS) are brighter than they would have been in the field, I actually like this approach. Having shelf after shelf of boring Dirty Khaki, Olive Drab and Field Grey doesn't necessarily make for an attractive display.

Detail - The detail on a lot of the FL figures is very neatly done. I sometimes feel that too much detail can be a negative thing however. The painting of things like fingernails and sometimes teeth, doesn't look right on small figures (Figarti, for instance).

Shading - Although sometimes a bit hit and miss, Figarti's shading is IMO the best of the current reasonably priced figures (I use the word reasonably, very loosely!) Many of the other manufactiurers use a more simple (not suprising, given the numbers that are turned out) two tone approach to shading.

Outlining - Obviously, K&C use this to accentuate the details of the sculpt. Sometimes this works better than others, but there are many figures out there that have no outlining and this can make the figure appear very bland.

I would also break sculpting down further.

Detail - How defined are the features on the figure, facial, equipment, weapons, hands etc.

Anatomically correct (believable) poses - Figarti have fallen foul of this in the past. They have some very wooden figures amongst their releases (although some are a lot better than others) . FL, I would say have also got a fair few 'that don't look natural poses' amongst their releases. K&C and TGM tend to look fairly natural, although some of the poses by K&C can be repetative.

Proportionality - How does the equipment, uniform etc look on the figure. K&C rifles - too fat, TGM rifles - too skinny, FL WWII helmets - too small etc

Faces - Each manufacturer seems to have a broad style (or several styles). Early Figarti WWII faces were all clones of Ernest Borgnine (excuse the spelling), K&C seem to have one sculpter doing a particular range so the faces within that range are very similar (eg, the FJ series), FLs WWII, as has been mentioned previously on this thread - detailed, but many are very similar. CS are likewise, with the gaunter look

Clothing / uniform - how the creases et al in the uniform are portrayed, from the very creased of CS to some of the less obvious and more subdued from other manufacturers

But,
after all that is said, what makes a 'must have' figure for me, is neither the painting or the sculpting. It is now mainly down to the pose. I like the action figures, and the ones that get my money are those that actually look like they're in action, rather than holding a weapon for the camera. And for my money, there are 2 brands that stand out in this field. Thomas Gunn and Conte.

Conte have led the way (IMO!) in consistently turning out all out action poses right from their first WWII releases, through the Spartans and on in to present day, with leaping Zulus and hammer wielding barbarians.

TGM have done likewise. Take the FJ kneeling MP40 and FG42 poses (and the latest SS officer with the MP40) - they actually look like they're firing the weapon. The Para sentry, foot on crate - that, looks realistic.

Now with Conte, I make sacrifices in terms of painting (generally), but the kid in me wants the action poses that they produce.

With all of these manufacturers, I don't think anyone of them has got the complete package (at least not to my mind), and I view this selection process as to where a collectors priorities lie. Mine are with the pose, others are more concernd with a high level of detailed painting.

As to the original question (for anyone still awake after reading these ramblings), are FL 'cutting edge'? My humble opinion is no, they're not, but they do produce figures generally that are of a high standard in most of the above areas. They charge slightly more (but not a huge amount over current prices) which allows them to get more of these factors to a high standard.

Can't remember where I was going with this post........^&confuse{sm2}

Very well written. I just disagree with one thing, along with action figures there needs to be figures that are not action, they can bring character and emotion to a scene. They can be very valuable to diorama builders. Actually in my opinion they are actually more valuable than an action pose.

I think this is the best figure ever made http://www.hobbybunker.com/products...-weary-gi-signal-corp-photographer-1944-22142 Alex

 

[Wraith]

Interesting points Simon but I don't think they addressed the points about cutting edge. Does TG fall into that category? Not at all. Their game plan is to be a mini K & C, hardly innovative. They're just trying to fill parts of the market that they think K & C has missed, and not as well in my opinion. On the other hand, as I mentioned previously, FL has successfully brought Russian style painting to the ts world, so much so that Aeroart feels threatened by them. That is true innovation: doing something others haven't done before.

Your post is a good primer on what makes a good figure but that is not what Simmo originally asked.

Sorry Brad, I think my points may have been lost in my excesively long post. I was trying (perhaps unsuccessfully) to address several points. The first in reference to quality painting and sculpting equalling cutting edge. My opinion, which may not have been clear (serves me right for posting at silly o'clock in the morning), was that I don't think any one manufacturer has nailed it, in all of those areas (and I'm sure there are plenty of other areas you could break down to examine figures).

I would conceded that in certain aspects, different manufacturers could be deemed cutting edge in one or more areas if they are what a collector would see as the leader of the pack, but to pick just one would depend purely on an individual collector's priorities and for me, they would have to be the regarded as the top of the pack in all fields relevant to the collector to be regarded as cutting edge. Whilst obviously subjective, I wouldn't describe any one manufacturer as this.

My reference to TGM and Conte was purely what makes a stand out figure for me, i.e. that I'd let some of the other areas slide if the pose is right. Not everyone's cup of tea, but goes someway to explain why the term cutting edge is always going to be tnged with an element of individual preference. For what it's worth, I don't think TGM are cutting edge.

Cutting edge to me could be used to describe K&C back in 1995, or Conte plastics back circa 2000. Something completely new, ahead of the game, that makes the collecting community sit back and say 'Wooah, didn't see that one coming!'

I'd also say that the point of FL using Russian style painting is the same as the comparison you use of K&C and TGM. I agree with you that TGM figures compliment K&C figures largely, whilst to describe FL as cutting edge because they emulate the Russian figures, but with a slightly lower painting standard (and this is not a dig at all), would suggest that Aeroart and the likes are actually cutting edge.

Probably just confused my original post even more, but it makes sense in my head {sm2}

And a caveat, if it's needed, is that I collect both matt and glossy, from all sorts of manufacturers, including K&C, FL, CS, TGM, Conte, Britains, Figarti and a whole host of others (not at you Brad).

Simon

 

[Wraith]

Very well written. I just disagree with one thing, along with action figures there needs to be figures that are not action, they can bring character and emotion to a scene. They can be very valuable to diorama builders. Actually in my opinion they are actually more valuable than an action pose.

I think this is the best figure ever made http://www.hobbybunker.com/products...-weary-gi-signal-corp-photographer-1944-22142 Alex

Thanks Alex. I totally agree with you re non action figures and have plenty amongst my collection. My point re the action figures was purely a personal one, in so much as it is the action poses that tend to get me reaching for the credit card straight away.

Simon

 

[Rob]

Thanks Alex. I totally agree with you re non action figures and have plenty amongst my collection. My point re the action figures was purely a personal one, in so much as it is the action poses that tend to get me reaching for the credit card straight away.

Simon

I wouldn't mind, but it tends to be my credit card he reaches for!:wink2:

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

You'll have to excuse my post this morning Simon as it was a bit too acerbic. Although perhaps not exactly on point, your one post on the hobby (and you do know whereof you speak as you're a painter) is probably one of the better posts, as others have noted, on this Forum than I would have the good fortune to make in about six months time :wink2:

Cheers,

Brad

 

[Wraith]

I wouldn't mind, but it tends to be my credit card he reaches for!:wink2:

Rob

I would if it weren't wrapped in the hand of a 6 foot 5" Figarti dealer {sm2}

 

[Wraith]

You'll have to excuse my post this morning Simon as it was a bit too acerbic. Although perhaps not exactly on point, your one post on the hobby (and you do know whereof you speak as you're a painter) is probably one of the better posts, as others have noted, on this Forum than I would have the good fortune to make in about six months time :wink2:

Cheers,

Brad

No excuse necessary Brad, I appreciate the fact that you read my post through to the end without falling asleep. As for the quality of the post, normal service will be resumed for the next 4 or 5 years and I'll revert to posting poor attempts at humour :tongue:
BTW, don't tell my wife that I paint. Apparently, the house doesn't decorate itself and involves some kind of manual effort, presumably on my part. {sm2}

 

[The Military Workshop]

Interesting thread.

From my experience with new collectors the biggest decision when faced with figures from Ancients times through to modern (although not much modern available) is to decide on a period such as ACW, Naps or WWII etc. For example I stock four brands that produce ACW figures so if a collectors area of interest is ACW then much depends upon what he wants to do. I was discussing this with a new collector today and one important point to him was the availability of leader figures so I recommended Britains ACW.

Some WWII collectors for example might only be interested in a particular area of operations such as Russia, North Africa or even smaller areas such as Arnhem or US Airborne. Then they choose from the different brands that cover that subject and may mix brands if they work together.

It is only after picking an era that they consider the quality and price of the brands covering their area of interest.
Variety within the range is also important. If a brand is the only one covering a particular subject then they will get that market.

Some collectors prefer to stick to one brand and will not change direction. Often this is a way to control their budget as once you get into multi brands it is harder. Others may get their WWII from one brand and their Naps from another.

In the various scenarios above only the collector can decide and whatever he picks is presumably the best for him.
Some have mentioned glossy figures and I personally don't have any but really like the Beau Geste Durbar series (ahead of anything WWII). Just wish some of my collectors would agree with me !!!

I do agree with Wraith on one point and that is in relation to Conte poses. When I saw the flying Spartan and Immortal set online it was probably the most impressed I have been by a single item.

Anyway just a few thoughts.

Regards
Brett

 

[Gazza]

Interesting thread.

From my experience with new collectors the biggest decision when faced with figures from Ancients times through to modern (although not much modern available) is to decide on a period such as ACW, Naps or WWII etc. For example I stock four brands that produce ACW figures so if a collectors area of interest is ACW then much depends upon what he wants to do. I was discussing this with a new collector today and one important point to him was the availability of leader figures so I recommended Britains ACW.

Some WWII collectors for example might only be interested in a particular area of operations such as Russia, North Africa or even smaller areas such as Arnhem or US Airborne. Then they choose from the different brands that cover that subject and may mix brands if they work together.

It is only after picking an era that they consider the quality and price of the brands covering their area of interest.
Variety within the range is also important. If a brand is the only one covering a particular subject then they will get that market.

Some collectors prefer to stick to one brand and will not change direction. Often this is a way to control their budget as once you get into multi brands it is harder. Others may get their WWII from one brand and their Naps from another.

In the various scenarios above only the collector can decide and whatever he picks is presumably the best for him.
Some have mentioned glossy figures and I personally don't have any but really like the Beau Geste Durbar series (ahead of anything WWII). Just wish some of my collectors would agree with me !!!

I do agree with Wraith on one point and that is in relation to Conte poses. When I saw the flying Spartan and Immortal set online it was probably the most impressed I have been by a single item.

Anyway just a few thoughts.

Regards
Brett

A few thoughts...none of which appear to relate to the thread which is whether FL is cutting edge ^&confuse^&confuse^&confuse


Gazza

 

[Jürgen_Keuppe]

I think in relation to things like Crusades and samurai et al they do indeed bridge a gap between what was on the market and, some of the very expensive well painted sets which cost, often too much for average collectors to have. In that respect they have done well.

In relation to WWII I don't think there was a gap to fill as WWII is already, well covered. Many of the top end manufacturers do not produce a significant amount of WWII for their to have been a gap to bridge.

As a Painter, I think there are some things that I would not do that have been done with the range. I still have issues with facial similarity too small helmets, and, some shading and paint issues like the straight lines painted on rifles for wood grain effect. I hear all the time from the same collectors about how well they are sculpted and well painted but, I don't know if this is because some are not painters and I am but, when I look at a figure I see things that I don't like in an artistic or realistic sense. As I said they are painted well but, some of the shading is heavy and not blended for me really, there should be a seemless blend not stark lines which, all manufacturers do.

In relation to sculpting I don't think they have moved outside the box and rocked the hobby. Many manufactuers are producing very good sculpts in the 1/30th banner. I hear sometimes that a good sculpt makes for a good figure well, yes that is fairly true but, the sculpt whatever will only be as good as its painted. I think when you look at figures across the board all are well done. I have seen the addition of cheek bones and similar facial feature teeth in open mouths and similar which, add to the overall effect but, they have to be painted to show the detail. Thats why, I believe that a sculpt is down to the painter. for me, there is very little difference in sculpts from the main manufacturers.

At the end of the day its down to personal choice and opinions
Mitch

Aside from the cost, the biggest reason I have resisted the temptation to jump on the First Legion bandwagon is the German helmet. They just didn't capture it! The Collectors Showcase does it better than anyone in my opinion, including K&C. First Legion is also a bit smaller and not compatible with my K&C or TCS figures.