July 20th 1944 Operation Valkyrie....The Plot To Kill Hitler !!! (2 Viewers)

[PanzerAce1944]

PA,
....the sacrifice of the largely unsung German people that tried has barely been recognized even this many years later. It was buried in the ungodly and unimaginable thing that was the holocaust.

I also own this set. I have never figured on doing a diorama on it. I do like yours however. I have it to honor the German Resistance.

View attachment 100189View attachment 100190

Ludwig

It is an awesome set Ludwig, I did my bomb blast scene over as the first "blast" looked rather weak....{sm2}

 

[Bayern]

It is an awesome set Ludwig, I did my bomb blast scene over as the first "blast" looked rather weak....{sm2}

PA, Even this old man has not mastered Microsoft Paint. My hand is not that steady anymore.

It is the fact that you did it Wayne that matters to me.

Your personal friend...Ludwig

 

[PanzerAce1944]

PA, Even this old man has not mastered Microsoft Paint. My hand is not that steady anymore.

It is the fact that you did it Wayne that matters to me.

Your personal friend...Ludwig

Thanks Ludwig, Last year I sold this set to make room for tanks and vehicles as my thinking was to make room for these vehicles. I regretted it ever since. Last week I picked up this same set for $20.00 over original retail and did not hesitate ! I am not letting this one go !!!! Too awesome a set IMO.

 

[TomNT]

Nice one PA and i see that you have been taking lessons from Wayne WA with the explosion editing!!!^&grin

Tom

 

[wayne556517]

Very good mate its a great set.

 

[fierytheangelsfell]

Does anyone out there have this set for sale? I missed it.

 

[Mitch]

interesting set and dio. It raises many conversational areas which, have been discussed over the years. from personal sacrifice to the fact these officers were traitors who were happy to go along with the regime when they were winning and all getting medals but, not when it went wrong. It certainly rallied the Nazi cause hugely in many showcase trials propaganda films and, allowed many dormant nazi's to emerge and show with huge brutality and savagery that they were loyal to Hitler. from the assassination attempt gestapo and police records show a huge rise in german people reporting their neighbours for often petty offences to make them look more loyal.

Probably, the worst thing they could have done at that time was the assassination attempt.
Mitch

 

[PanzerAce1944]

interesting set and dio. It raises many conversational areas which, have been discussed over the years. from personal sacrifice to the fact these officers were traitors who were happy to go along with the regime when they were winning and all getting medals but, not when it went wrong. It certainly rallied the Nazi cause hugely in many showcase trials propaganda films and, allowed many dormant nazi's to emerge and show with huge brutality and savagery that they were loyal to Hitler. from the assassination attempt gestapo and police records show a huge rise in german people reporting their neighbours for often petty offences to make them look more loyal.

Probably, the worst thing they could have done at that time was the assassination attempt.
Mitch

True, but only because it failed. One more pack of explosives in the briefcase as was originally intended would have changed the course of the war I'm sure.

 

[fierytheangelsfell]

True, but only because it failed. One more pack of explosives in the briefcase as was originally intended would have changed the course of the war I'm sure.

But not necessarily in a good way. True, the war lasted for another ten months of the most savage and brutal slaughter ever seen but the savagery did obliterate the regime once and for all and eradicated much of over a decade of Nazification. Easy for me to say, I know. I recommend Ian Kershaw's 'The End' for those wanting to look closer and the results of July 20 1944 and the last year of the war generally.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I really wonder if the bomb blast worked as planned how the series of events following would have unfolded ? To me it looks like the new regime would have had
Goebels and Himmler arrested and a plan to end the war would have been attempted. Maybe part to save their own hides and the other part to save what was left
of germany and to end the senseless killing.

 

[Bayern]

But not necessarily in a good way. True, the war lasted for another ten months of the most savage and brutal slaughter ever seen but the savagery did obliterate the regime once and for all and eradicated much of over a decade of Nazification. Easy for me to say, I know. I recommend Ian Kershaw's 'The End' for those wanting to look closer and the results of July 20 1944 and the last year of the war generally.

True, but only because it failed. One more pack of explosives in the briefcase as was originally intended would have changed the course of the war I'm sure.

I really wonder if the bomb blast worked as planned how the series of events following would have unfolded ? To me it looks like the new regime would have had
Goebels and Himmler arrested and a plan to end the war would have been attempted. Maybe part to save their own hides and the other part to save what was left
of germany and to end the senseless killing.

I love reading all the different views you young Einsteins have. The problem is this. There are so few of you that would even question it left today./

. Then the few of you have only a cursory idea of what living through it, and was ist was like when the Gestapo had neighbor after neighbor and people in fear beyond imagination. Everyone acts like they would have been different then the German people under such a regime. Been big heroes...they would have been. They would have known about all the concentration camps.....they would have rose up an annihilated all the SS part members with there bare fists....they would have starved and watched there children starve....and be beaten murdered, raped and torchered. We watched that happen again in the occupation by the saints that freed us.


I hope none of you ever have to experience anything even close to this in your lives.

 

[vividgraphx]

You are right Ludwig. One can read all they want about history but unless they were there or directly affected by it they cannot understand it. Its what Americans call "Monday morning quarterbacking". An example is I know that the fighting conditions at Stalingrad were horrible because I read so much about it ect...but I will never really understand what the battle there was like because I wasn't there,I have no feel of the situation there. Therefore I could never say what should have been done there,not my place.I can run hypothetical decisions in my head of course and talk about my ideas with others,but never could tell someone this is what should have occured. God bless everyone who lived through this. Keith

 

[PanzerAce1944]

You are right Ludwig. One can read all they want about history but unless they were there or directly affected by it they cannot understand it. Its what Americans call "Monday morning quarterbacking". An example is I know that the fighting conditions at Stalingrad were horrible because I read so much about it ect...but I will never really understand what the battle there was like because I wasn't there,I have no feel of the situation there. Therefore I could never say what should have been done there,not my place.I can run hypothetical decisions in my head of course and talk about my ideas with others,but never could tell someone this is what should have occured. God bless everyone who lived through this. Keith

Several facts are for sure. Hitlers own people tried to kill him. The bombing did not kill Adolf, and the war went on for another senseless 9 months. Hats off to Colonel
Claus Von stauffenburg for having the guts to give his life in the name of mankind.

 

[Jack]

I love reading all the different views you young Einsteins have. The problem is this. There are so few of you that would even question it left today./

. Then the few of you have only a cursory idea of what living through it, and was ist was like when the Gestapo had neighbor after neighbor and people in fear beyond imagination. Everyone acts like they would have been different then the German people under such a regime. Been big heroes...they would have been. They would have known about all the concentration camps.....they would have rose up an annihilated all the SS part members with there bare fists....they would have starved and watched there children starve....and be beaten murdered, raped and torchered. We watched that happen again in the occupation by the saints that freed us.


I hope none of you ever have to experience anything even close to this in your lives.

It is impossible to be held accountable for what we may or may not have done in a hypothetical situation. We can only be judged on what we do, or fail to do, in the experiences that are faced with. It is the same with our posts. You are accountable for the tone and content of your posts. I am accountable for mine.

 

[waynepoo]

I love reading all the different views you young Einsteins have. The problem is this. There are so few of you that would even question it left today./

. Then the few of you have only a cursory idea of what living through it, and was ist was like when the Gestapo had neighbor after neighbor and people in fear beyond imagination. Everyone acts like they would have been different then the German people under such a regime. Been big heroes...they would have been. They would have known about all the concentration camps.....they would have rose up an annihilated all the SS part members with there bare fists....they would have starved and watched there children starve....and be beaten murdered, raped and torchered. We watched that happen again in the occupation by the saints that freed us.


I hope none of you ever have to experience anything even close to this in your lives.

Gee, I wish I was still young, but I know I'm not as smart as Einstein.....{sm3}
Wayne.

 

[Mitch]

interesting stuff. I have spoken to many germans who were there at the time many SS vetrans and Heer who took part in the events after the july bomb plot and, to the affect it had on them. so, unless they are lying and, I doubt that these were mature grown men some fighting for their country some doing their bit in germany at the time all to a man said the events galvonised them and gave them almost something more to fight for. The speeches and radio propaganda made them feel more nationalistic. Obviously there were those who hated Hitler but, many still believed that they were fighting for a cause worthy.

I always get the sense when people become anti establishment and turn traitor that its a personal decision first then quickly qualified with a notion that you are doing it for ones country. Very rarely is it the other way around. I read something a few years back in a university library while looking for something else quite scathing about the plotters and, the fact that they were happy when things were going well and recieving all the glory but, when sidelined, or dismissed by Hitler, became aware of this brutal regime they had served so well. Almost what alcoholics call a moment of clarity!!!. It was an interesting read

Now, whether we were there as an infant etc does not matter. nor does all the emotional diatribe unless you were of an age that you could fully understand what was happening or, play a role in the total events. what is for certain is that had they succeded it would have caused a mini civil war inside of Berlin especially possibly, wider. The SS and police were not just going to politely hand over power to a few army officers no matter if the berlin garrison was siding with them. it would have been chaos. Extra Waffen SS and police units were withdrawn immediately from the field and transited back to Berlin within hours of the failed attempt on the orders of Bormann. these would have made for an interesting conclusion to the whole affair
Mitch

 

[fierytheangelsfell]

I love reading all the different views you young Einsteins have. The problem is this. There are so few of you that would even question it left today./

. Then the few of you have only a cursory idea of what living through it, and was ist was like when the Gestapo had neighbor after neighbor and people in fear beyond imagination. Everyone acts like they would have been different then the German people under such a regime. Been big heroes...they would have been. They would have known about all the concentration camps.....they would have rose up an annihilated all the SS part members with there bare fists....they would have starved and watched there children starve....and be beaten murdered, raped and torchered. We watched that happen again in the occupation by the saints that freed us.


I hope none of you ever have to experience anything even close to this in your lives.

There was certainly no offence intended in my remarks which were offered in good faith on a point interest and history. You obviously have strong feelings about this but the anger in your second paragraph was uncalled for, I believe, as was the derogatory "young Einsteins" in your opening sentence. The observation I made above pointed no aggressive or accusatory fingers at anyone.

I am not going to get into a flame war or ongoing argument about any of this and this may well be my final contribution to this forum. I did not say anything about concentration camps, or what I might have done or how I would have been so much better than the way Germans behaved. As you point out, I am fortunate that I'll never know how I might behave in such a situation. That DOES NOT give you the right to be unpleasant. I'm entitled to enter into a polite discussion without being insulted.

 

[Jack]

There was certainly no offence intended in my remarks which were offered in good faith on a point interest and history. You obviously have strong feelings about this but the anger in your second paragraph was uncalled for, I believe, as was the derogatory "young Einsteins" in your opening sentence. The observation I made above pointed no aggressive or accusatory fingers at anyone.

I am not going to get into a flame war or ongoing argument about any of this and this may well be my final contribution to this forum. I did not say anything about concentration camps, or what I might have done or how I would have been so much better than the way Germans behaved. As you point out, I am fortunate that I'll never know how I might behave in such a situation. That DOES NOT give you the right to be unpleasant or to tell me to 'bugger off'. I'm entitled to enter into a polite discussion without being insulted.

I have met some wonderful people on this forum and made good friends, both in cyberspace and in reality. It is these people who make it worth while.

He will no doubt be on soon to apologise as is his fashion. Hang around.

 

[wayne556517]

There was certainly no offence intended in my remarks which were offered in good faith on a point interest and history. You obviously have strong feelings about this but the anger in your second paragraph was uncalled for, I believe, as was the derogatory "young Einsteins" in your opening sentence. The observation I made above pointed no aggressive or accusatory fingers at anyone.

I am not going to get into a flame war or ongoing argument about any of this and this may well be my final contribution to this forum. I did not say anything about concentration camps, or what I might have done or how I would have been so much better than the way Germans behaved. As you point out, I am fortunate that I'll never know how I might behave in such a situation. That DOES NOT give you the right to be unpleasant or to tell me to 'bugger off'. I'm entitled to enter into a polite discussion without being insulted.

You are mate and i hope you don't bugger off..............^&confuse^&confuse

 

[waynepoo]

There was certainly no offence intended in my remarks which were offered in good faith on a point interest and history. You obviously have strong feelings about this but the anger in your second paragraph was uncalled for, I believe, as was the derogatory "young Einsteins" in your opening sentence. The observation I made above pointed no aggressive or accusatory fingers at anyone.

I am not going to get into a flame war or ongoing argument about any of this and this may well be my final contribution to this forum. I did not say anything about concentration camps, or what I might have done or how I would have been so much better than the way Germans behaved. As you point out, I am fortunate that I'll never know how I might behave in such a situation. That DOES NOT give you the right to be unpleasant or to tell me to 'bugger off'. I'm entitled to enter into a polite discussion without being insulted.

Mate, you are in the right and he is in the wrong, simple...so please stay on the forum.
Wayne.