K&C Retroactive Price Increases (8 Viewers)

[Winston]

Two points. Some of these items were originaly made five years ago, probably others two, three and four years ago. However, during that time prices were not increased. However, the cost to make them was.

I doubt that any product was ever made a loss.

Isn't the wider issue that the pieces gathering dust on dealers shelves now represent exceptionally good value. So those with limited budgets are picking off these pieces rather then the newer sets. Which merely from their date of manufacture were more costly to produce.

One only has to look at K&C UK's price list to see the wide variety of (increasing) retail prices on single figure sets for example. Which indicates that stock has been sitting in the warehouse for some considerable time. This isn't re-run production (as the retail price would have risen).

Investing in K&C sets rather than collecting as a hobby seems to have become prevalent. I would be a rich man for the number of times I've heard that the sets described as "investments". One for the collection , one for the pension fund. Downside is K&C produce the sets to satisfy demand. In reality demand isn't there. Collectors have made their own self inflating bubble. Yes, some pieces will command premium price but other will fall by the wayside.

Like any business K&C will occassionally produce product that receives insufficent demand. The problem is how to offload it without devaluing the brand.

 

[Hartschier]

New guy here!!!! Not new to the hobby...not new to reading the forum....just brand new to having joined the forum!!!!

For the better part of the week I have spent quite the time to follow the over-inventoried; retroactive pricing; and now the big boys games and rules; and the facts of life. Bye the way I thought that show was canceled!!

I tried an experiment and joined on to a thread that seemed to be driven by animosity from the two longer ones. Introducing myself and showing a positive response. One member greeted me.

Next I started a positive thread on WWI, which is one of my favorite of the many K&C lines that I collect. One member replied thus far.

In that time the ongoing debates on the lets say more negative threads have had more hits than Babe Ruth or O'Henry...or more hands on than the door knob.

Something is wrong here.

I intended to join the forum to voice my opinion as well on the resale, cost increase, etc items. But I am not sure that my opinion would really matter. It seems like a wholesale slaughter.

I see correct angles from all sides of the issue. In time I will put in my evaluation.
I will do this in a non-reactionary manner. We must think before we type.

Us old boys need to remember something. This hobby is slowly losing fuel as us baby boomers are disappearing. This of course working hand in hand with their being less and less WWII veterans alive as well. Being that W2 soldiers are the largest selling.

We need to bring in younger folks to the hobby to keep it going for us, our children, theirs and so on.

But if this is what they are going to see on the biggest TS blog and sales outlets in the world....whom do you think it will attract.

It is amazing that the dirty laundry gets so much attention and the friendly threads do not. Do you realize that the over-inv/ retroactive pricing threads have been viewed almost as much as all total threads that Conti or Collectors Showcase has ever had in the history of this site?

This message is not directed at anyone certain. It is directed at the problem.

Lets solve it.

I am in the position of a traveler who sees himself surrounded by a bunch of rogues, who are planning to murder him and divide the spoils amongst themselves!..Fredrick the Great 1750

 

[Tony Neville]

I doubt that any product was ever made a loss.

Isn't the wider issue that the pieces gathering dust on dealers shelves now represent exceptionally good value. So those with limited budgets are picking off these pieces rather then the newer sets. Which merely from their date of manufacture were more costly to produce.

One only has to look at K&C UK's price list to see the wide variety of (increasing) retail prices on single figure sets for example. Which indicates that stock has been sitting in the warehouse for some considerable time. This isn't re-run production (as the retail price would have risen).

Investing in K&C sets rather than collecting as a hobby seems to have become prevalent. I would be a rich man for the number of times I've heard that the sets described as "investments". One for the collection , one for the pension fund. Downside is K&C produce the sets to satisfy demand. In reality demand isn't there. Collectors have made their own self inflating bubble. Yes, some pieces will command premium price but other will fall by the wayside.

Like any business K&C will occassionally produce product that receives insufficent demand. The problem is how to offload it without devaluing the brand.

Hi Winston

Your wrong!

The K&C UK price list shows what exactly has been quoted by myself Andy and any other K&C dealers.

The New models cost more as they are more costly to make!! NA210 for example!
The price list shows........i will use DD55 as an example again!! was made first round in 2005 and has since been produced many times costs £21.95 but now costs in 2010 the same as NA210 to make! DD55 for example we sell hundreds of And as i stated early in this thread we only sent a load to The Armourys they had to wait as the factory was making them! If they were ON THE SHELF i would have had them from HK in three days not four weeks which we had to wait to get the model from the factory as it was being made!!

hardley anything sits on the shelf........Even Streets of HK and Life of Jesus!

We brought in 60 DD55 in October and we have 3 left!! and will have to order more so happy with the Shelf Life.

Andy has explained that say since 2006/07 K&C HK have taken the 'hit' on the extra production cost. And now they have to retire it or increase the price as of january 1st 2011.

Cheers

Tony Neville
K&C UK

DD55 is Winston Churchill by the way

 

[Rob]

New guy here!!!! Not new to the hobby...not new to reading the forum....just brand new to having joined the forum!!!!

For the better part of the week I have spent quite the time to follow the over-inventoried; retroactive pricing; and now the big boys games and rules; and the facts of life. Bye the way I thought that show was canceled!!

I tried an experiment and joined on to a thread that seemed to be driven by animosity from the two longer ones. Introducing myself and showing a positive response. One member greeted me.

Next I started a positive thread on WWI, which is one of my favorite of the many K&C lines that I collect. One member replied thus far.

In that time the ongoing debates on the lets say more negative threads have had more hits than Babe Ruth or O'Henry...or more hands on than the door knob.

Something is wrong here.

I intended to join the forum to voice my opinion as well on the resale, cost increase, etc items. But I am not sure that my opinion would really matter. It seems like a wholesale slaughter.

I see correct angles from all sides of the issue. In time I will put in my evaluation.
I will do this in a non-reactionary manner. We must think before we type.

Us old boys need to remember something. This hobby is slowly losing fuel as us baby boomers are disappearing. This of course working hand in hand with their being less and less WWII veterans alive as well. Being that W2 soldiers are the largest selling.

We need to bring in younger folks to the hobby to keep it going for us, our children, theirs and so on.

But if this is what they are going to see on the biggest TS blog and sales outlets in the world....whom do you think it will attract.

It is amazing that the dirty laundry gets so much attention and the friendly threads do not. Do you realize that the over-inv/ retroactive pricing threads have been viewed almost as much as all total threads that Conti or Collectors Showcase has ever had in the history of this site?

This message is not directed at anyone certain. It is directed at the problem.

Lets solve it.

I am in the position of a traveler who sees himself surrounded by a bunch of rogues, who are planning to murder him and divide the spoils amongst themselves!..Fredrick the Great 1750

Well welcome to the forum Hartschier!. It may get heated around here now and again but its still the best forum for Toy Soldier's, hope you enjoy it here and look forward to your posts.

Rob

 

[Tony Neville]

New guy here!!!! Not new to the hobby...not new to reading the forum....just brand new to having joined the forum!!!!

For the better part of the week I have spent quite the time to follow the over-inventoried; retroactive pricing; and now the big boys games and rules; and the facts of life. Bye the way I thought that show was canceled!!

I tried an experiment and joined on to a thread that seemed to be driven by animosity from the two longer ones. Introducing myself and showing a positive response. One member greeted me.

Next I started a positive thread on WWI, which is one of my favorite of the many K&C lines that I collect. One member replied thus far.

In that time the ongoing debates on the lets say more negative threads have had more hits than Babe Ruth or O'Henry...or more hands on than the door knob.

Something is wrong here.

I intended to join the forum to voice my opinion as well on the resale, cost increase, etc items. But I am not sure that my opinion would really matter. It seems like a wholesale slaughter.

I see correct angles from all sides of the issue. In time I will put in my evaluation.
I will do this in a non-reactionary manner. We must think before we type.

Us old boys need to remember something. This hobby is slowly losing fuel as us baby boomers are disappearing. This of course working hand in hand with their being less and less WWII veterans alive as well. Being that W2 soldiers are the largest selling.

We need to bring in younger folks to the hobby to keep it going for us, our children, theirs and so on.

But if this is what they are going to see on the biggest TS blog and sales outlets in the world....whom do you think it will attract.

It is amazing that the dirty laundry gets so much attention and the friendly threads do not. Do you realize that the over-inv/ retroactive pricing threads have been viewed almost as much as all total threads that Conti or Collectors Showcase has ever had in the history of this site?

This message is not directed at anyone certain. It is directed at the problem.

Lets solve it.

I am in the position of a traveler who sees himself surrounded by a bunch of rogues, who are planning to murder him and divide the spoils amongst themselves!..Fredrick the Great 1750

as you say its the C**P that people talk about more than the fun stuff. Like most things in life though 'bad news sells' people like the under dog.

But welcome to the funny farm

Tony
K&C UK

 

[Spitfrnd]

I'd have to disagree on that one Terry, its all in ones own opinion. Many did feel the huge range of choice and quality over the last few years did constitute a Golden age, may be golden age is an over the top term, but it sure was a good time to be collecting.

Rob

I agree with you Rob (and your prior post as well) and I don't think it is yet over. As you said, none of us likes higher prices for anything but the choices and quality in the industry have never been greater.

 

[Winston]

Hi Winston

Your wrong!

hardley anything sits on the shelf........Even Streets of HK and Life of Jesus!

DD55 is Winston Churchill by the way

Hi Tony,

Stand corrected. I was merely basing my views from having worked in business finance over many years.

DD55 stands proudly alone on my desk next to my computer.

 

[Rob]

Hi Tony,

Stand corrected. I was merely basing my views from having worked in business finance over many years.

DD55 stands proudly alone on my desk next to my computer.

Winston, 'We shall fight on the beaches, the landing grounds, and on the desk next to the computers' .....the lesser known version of the famous speech

Rob

 

[Winston]

Winston, 'We shall fight on the beaches, the landing grounds, and on the desk next to the computers' .....the lesser known version of the famous speech

Rob

You've never heard that speech before......

 

[Rob]

You've never heard that speech before......

Rob

 

[sammy719]

Well guys since I have no dog in this fight might as well comment (everyone else has!!!) let's face it pricing on everything goes up some things more then others, can you think of anything that has gone down in price?? so take it for what it is, Andy has a company to run, and if I remember correctly K&C is now putting out way more product each month then it use to a few years ago, so supply and demand add up to higher pricing possibly? I don't know, but I do know is I love my hobby and I will always be involved in it one way or another, just not as much in purchase as I use to, but glad I have what I have...Sammy

 

[thebritfarmer]

It still all boggles my mind and the more dealers weigh in it just confuses me even more!!

I'll leave it at that as I could end up getting myself banned

 

[Alex]

Brett,

Last K&C set I bought was 1 year ago. It was bought at my local dealer (D'artagnan). I was buying sets at least every month if not twice a month over there. Why did I stopped :

1) nothing new hitting the shelves coming from K&C was looking like a 'I need it' anymore
2) with retail prices increasing, 1) was taking more 'space' in my mind
3) after taking a good look at my collection, no other K&C figure could make it better... Well, it was time to stop at least for a while
4) canadian dollar was losing some ground against the $US so local prices of K&C sets were increasing

I never resumed collecting K&C sets even though our canadian dollar is on par with the US one. Maybe I have too much, maybe I want better quality, maybe I'm fed up.. However, I still do like a lot to pay a visit to my local dealer who carries K&C, JJD, TCS, builorama, etc...

That price increase on the old sets won't help me buying more of those K&C sets sitting on the shelves of my local dealer. Tonight I will pay him a visit and will let you know how many of those sets are there. Last time I checked, there were still many of those D-Day paratroopers.. the ones you can attach to your ceiling.. don't remember the number..

Cheers,

Alex

 

[jbonzo1]

For me the aspect of the price increase that is most problematic is its retroactive nature. By this I mean that if a dealer has pre-2009 figures that don't sell before January 1st, they will then have to charge the new higher price (for example $35 for an item that was $21) for them during the coming months of 2011. IMHO these older items do not merit a markup since they were not part of a new run made at a higher cost. They should sell at their original price until gone and replaced by those from one of these new production runs.

Well said! This is my problem with K&C. I fully accept that new production costs more. A set that was made two years ago should stay at the original price.
BTW, I still love K&C and will continue to purchase their products... just not at the pace I used to.

 

[craig1985taylor]

It still all boggles my mind and the more dealers weigh in it just confuses me even more!!

I'll leave it at that as I could end up getting myself banned

& we wouldn't want that Scott lol thats how i feel as well easier to stay in the background & just read then get involved its not like we can change anything anyway!

Craig

 

[Hartschier]

I would have to agree as well. It seems as if there is a threatening overtone if you speak your mind, unless you are one of a select few or long timers. The whole witch hunt after the dealers, trying to get others to tattle tale; etc seems somewhat juvenile.

When I was raised a tattle tale was the worst jacket one could be outfitted with. Anyone agree? Crazy

 

[Hartschier]

....also, if I speak my mind...does that mean none of design concepts (wish list) will reach fruition?.....I would have to believe their bigger men/ women than that....yes??

 

[Combat]

I can understand why some collectors complain about price increases, but it's difficult to comprehend why some defend them at such great lengths. Even if you believe they are justified it's not exactly in your own interest to support them. It's like writing a letter to the oil company after they raise the price of gas. Pointing out that gas is still cheaper by the gallon than coffee, people can walk if they don't like it or dig a well in the backyard and try making their own.

 

[Spitfrnd]

....also, if I speak my mind...does that mean none of design concepts (wish list) will reach fruition?.....I would have to believe their bigger men/ women than that....yes??

You should never feel you can't speak your mind. I really wouldn't worry about any perceived overtone, some just like to say more than others but that is hardly news.

 

[Rob]

I can understand why some collectors complain about price increases, but it's difficult to comprehend why some defend them at such great lengths. Even if you believe they are justified it's not exactly in your own interest to support them. It's like writing a letter to the oil company after they raise the price of gas. Pointing out that gas is still cheaper by the gallon than coffee, people can walk if they don't like it or dig a well in the backyard and try making their own.

But thats the freedom of speech we have on the forum, everyone entitled to their view and opinions.

Rob