K&C Retroactive Price Increases (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter PolarBear
- Start date
ecuriel
Corporal
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2009
- Messages
- 545
Thank you.
The Military Workshop
1st Lieutenant
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2005
- Messages
- 4,778
Hi Guys,
Personally I wished this had been kept quiet for a bit longer becuase some of my customers have been getting great bargains since A$ now equal to US$ when 2 years ago the A$ was only worth US 60 cents. Some had already spotted it was a good time to buy multiples of the older items.
Looks like this is turning into another "let's beat up on K&C" thread and many have still missed the point or don't care to notice it.
The retroactive nature of the announcement only applies to those items that K&C actually continue with after 1 JAN 11. In some cases people are complaining about a price rise on something that will no longer be available anyway.
For example FOB28 that was mentioned in the dime example post has sold out at K&C in the past week as has all that group of fighting Brits. It will therefore not appear on the K&C price list on 1 JAN 11 so my view is that dealers can sell them for what they want as it has already retired. TF still has most of them listed and I would guess that in accordance with their practice it will stay at current price. (Please note there are items still shown on K&C web page that when ordered come up as Sold Out - I have emailed K&C about this).
Some of the posts so far have been interesting to say the least.
For example "I quit collecting K&C 1 year ago. Now I'm gone completely" from a collector who in a previous thread indicated he was spending several hundred to get one figure painted. Sorry Alex but if you quit collecting K&C a year ago this announcement should not be a concern.
Others have commented in a negative way when it is known they do not collect K&C.
Some have mentioned the new Lighthorse figures. Again I don't see the relevence as the new releases are priced the same as the first ones so no price rise there and none suggested in the announcement.
K&C has had some LAH figures selling for US$21 and others at $25 for quite a while. Compare this to TG recent FJ parade figures 4 for $110 (ie.$27.50 each) (only 100 sets made in one production run) or recent CS SS figures 2 for US$65 (ie US$32.50). I don'[t recall anybody ever posting about the bargain K&C LAH figures were at $21. I have no idea if any of those will continue after 1 JAN 11 but it defies common sense that they continue to be so cheap if further runs are being done.
Again just my thoughts on the matter.
Regards
Brett
Personally I wished this had been kept quiet for a bit longer becuase some of my customers have been getting great bargains since A$ now equal to US$ when 2 years ago the A$ was only worth US 60 cents. Some had already spotted it was a good time to buy multiples of the older items.
Looks like this is turning into another "let's beat up on K&C" thread and many have still missed the point or don't care to notice it.
The retroactive nature of the announcement only applies to those items that K&C actually continue with after 1 JAN 11. In some cases people are complaining about a price rise on something that will no longer be available anyway.
For example FOB28 that was mentioned in the dime example post has sold out at K&C in the past week as has all that group of fighting Brits. It will therefore not appear on the K&C price list on 1 JAN 11 so my view is that dealers can sell them for what they want as it has already retired. TF still has most of them listed and I would guess that in accordance with their practice it will stay at current price. (Please note there are items still shown on K&C web page that when ordered come up as Sold Out - I have emailed K&C about this).
Some of the posts so far have been interesting to say the least.
For example "I quit collecting K&C 1 year ago. Now I'm gone completely" from a collector who in a previous thread indicated he was spending several hundred to get one figure painted. Sorry Alex but if you quit collecting K&C a year ago this announcement should not be a concern.
Others have commented in a negative way when it is known they do not collect K&C.
Some have mentioned the new Lighthorse figures. Again I don't see the relevence as the new releases are priced the same as the first ones so no price rise there and none suggested in the announcement.
K&C has had some LAH figures selling for US$21 and others at $25 for quite a while. Compare this to TG recent FJ parade figures 4 for $110 (ie.$27.50 each) (only 100 sets made in one production run) or recent CS SS figures 2 for US$65 (ie US$32.50). I don'[t recall anybody ever posting about the bargain K&C LAH figures were at $21. I have no idea if any of those will continue after 1 JAN 11 but it defies common sense that they continue to be so cheap if further runs are being done.
Again just my thoughts on the matter.
Regards
Brett
marco55
Brigadier General
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 11,407
I think we all realize that production costs are going up.Everyone is jumping on KC (myself included) because they are the first ones to raise prices on existing lines but as we all see the prices are steadly going up for all the companies.I think a lot of the backlash is frustration because we won't be able to continue to buy like we use to.Very few of us has the deep pockets to be able to continue like we did.In the long run this is going to hurt the hobby becaue as most of us cut down or get out of the hobby means less sales means KC and all the others wont be able to invest in new and exciting products as much.Is the Golden Age coming to an end already?
Mark
Mark
Desertkiwi
1st Lieutenant
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2009
- Messages
- 4,555
Well said Mark......yeah I'd say there's a lot of hot air being expressed mostly out of fraustration, opposed to knocking K&C itself.
As for those persons who don't collect K&C and are simply taking the opportunity to take cheap shots at the company, I'd say its time you packed up your bucket & spade and headed off to your own sandpit, quite frankly.
Rob
Four Star General
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 26,622
Guys, with kids dying in the world for want of a meal or clean water, if our only problem is cutting down on model Tanks and figures we havn't got it too bad have we?. Of course no one wants to see prices go up,I certainly don't, but I don't want to end my hobby either.
Rob
Rob
Last edited by a moderator:
Phantom Warrior
Major
- Joined
- May 1, 2009
- Messages
- 6,881
The Golden Age ended as soon as people started calling it the Golden Age. It never was. There was just suddenly more choice and some improvements in quality. I don't know that the collector base has grown enough to support all of the new choices.
Terry
Rob
Four Star General
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 26,622
I'd have to disagree on that one Terry, its all in ones own opinion. Many did feel the huge range of choice and quality over the last few years did constitute a Golden age, may be golden age is an over the top term, but it sure was a good time to be collecting.
Rob
Mitch
Major General
- Joined
- May 1, 2010
- Messages
- 13,519
Terry...
I agree that the ''Golden age'' that has been bandied around was certainly IMO not really correct. K&C introduced Matt into a somewhat glossy dominated hobby (A Golden age of change??) and from then on every innovation in paint, detail, mould design, sculpt, new manufacturers, shock and awe products from all manufacturers etc could constitute a ''golden age''
Mitch
I agree that the ''Golden age'' that has been bandied around was certainly IMO not really correct. K&C introduced Matt into a somewhat glossy dominated hobby (A Golden age of change??) and from then on every innovation in paint, detail, mould design, sculpt, new manufacturers, shock and awe products from all manufacturers etc could constitute a ''golden age''
Mitch
aujj65
Colonel
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 9,151
This post from randy has got to be the most sensible one on this thread and actually when you think about it what collector is going to buy all of the items that are earmarked for a price increase? If you haven’t already got the old sets there is a good chance you wouldn’t have anyway before this announcement was made.
At the end of the day no one can expect any manufacturer to keep absorbing increased production costs of re-runs but I agree with Randy that the original old sets should not be affected, but having said that nobody really knows yet which and how many sets are involved.
I will try and not lose any sleep over this.
Jeff
Mitch
Major General
- Joined
- May 1, 2010
- Messages
- 13,519
Jeff...
I thought we knew all pre 2009 sets and about 356 will be affected by the price rise Thats easy enough to look back and see what will be hit with a price increase its, just by how much as there is armour bands etc which are big items that could change a lot. I agree its not worth loosing sleep but, I wonder if K&C are taking a hit financially with these old sets or, if he may have been able to do without much real financial problem just discontinuing them as he does until, some decide to start threads like have been seen recently. Andy's post titled ''times are changing'' has certainly come true for some an awful lot quicker and in circumstances many seem not to have liked.
Mitch
I thought we knew all pre 2009 sets and about 356 will be affected by the price rise Thats easy enough to look back and see what will be hit with a price increase its, just by how much as there is armour bands etc which are big items that could change a lot. I agree its not worth loosing sleep but, I wonder if K&C are taking a hit financially with these old sets or, if he may have been able to do without much real financial problem just discontinuing them as he does until, some decide to start threads like have been seen recently. Andy's post titled ''times are changing'' has certainly come true for some an awful lot quicker and in circumstances many seem not to have liked.
Mitch
Last edited:
Phantom Warrior
Major
- Joined
- May 1, 2009
- Messages
- 6,881
And I still don't know where the great overstock is to have piles of old figures made years ago about to have a price increase. None of the dealers I regularly buy from seem to have a large overstock of old K&C. Just yesterday, one friend who collects mentioned he called his dealer to order several figures before the price went up and was told they were out of stock but new ones could be ordered from K&C??
Terry
Terry
aujj65
Colonel
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 9,151
Mitch, I think you misunderstand me, sorry what I meant was nobody really knows which of the 356 are original older sets (and not re-runs of these) and are still on the shelves.
Jeff
Phantom Warrior
Major
- Joined
- May 1, 2009
- Messages
- 6,881
There may not be much pre-2009 pieces sitting on shelves at all. Much of the dealers inventory has to be pieces introduced in 2009 and 2010 and older pieces are probably small batches of re-orders.
Terry
Rob
Four Star General
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 26,622
Tony told me yesterday that we will get a list of the items with the next newsletter, that will be a big help.
Rob
Mitch
Major General
- Joined
- May 1, 2010
- Messages
- 13,519
Jeff...
Apologies for not seeing what you meant. I think the best thing would then be for dealers to front up what and how many of these Targeted items they have in stock now to collectors allowing them to know they are not paying the new higher prices for stock bought in at lower prices.
Ethically, this would be the best way forward and then everyone starts tabula rasa from January1st
To be honest though, I am still struggling to see how if dealers are struggling to offload the older and cheaper K&C sets they hold in stock (as surely this means a slow down in collector buying) are going to be able to offload this stock any easier at the new higher prices.
I think the threads were all about pressure to lower prices and its certainly backfired but, as is always the way the majority of collectors and dealers now suffer as prices are to rise
Mitch
Apologies for not seeing what you meant. I think the best thing would then be for dealers to front up what and how many of these Targeted items they have in stock now to collectors allowing them to know they are not paying the new higher prices for stock bought in at lower prices.
Ethically, this would be the best way forward and then everyone starts tabula rasa from January1st
To be honest though, I am still struggling to see how if dealers are struggling to offload the older and cheaper K&C sets they hold in stock (as surely this means a slow down in collector buying) are going to be able to offload this stock any easier at the new higher prices.
I think the threads were all about pressure to lower prices and its certainly backfired but, as is always the way the majority of collectors and dealers now suffer as prices are to rise
Mitch
jazzeum
Four Star General
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2005
- Messages
- 38,428
Two points. Some of these items were originaly made five years ago, probably others two, three and four years ago. However, during that time prices were not increased. However, the cost to make them was. When they were first made they were priced with a certain profit margin in mind, which has been reduced. Andy could have raised prices but didn't. I think the man deserves some credit for not doing that. Instead, all people want to do and blast him. It really gets tiring with all the brick a bats that are constantly thrown at him.
Second point, inventory control. K & C have inventory centers or locations in HK and I believe in Texas, carrying hundreds of product. It's too much to ask them to separate the same item by price. What people are asking for is a logistical nightmare. These products aren't bar coded, have RFID (radar technology now in vogue) or have expiry dating. What some are asking for sounds good but is not practical. This is also a problem that the big dealers will have (not every dealer) but the big ones that drive this business.
I think we've beaten this one to death and let the man run his business, a business which he knows much more about than others do.
Second point, inventory control. K & C have inventory centers or locations in HK and I believe in Texas, carrying hundreds of product. It's too much to ask them to separate the same item by price. What people are asking for is a logistical nightmare. These products aren't bar coded, have RFID (radar technology now in vogue) or have expiry dating. What some are asking for sounds good but is not practical. This is also a problem that the big dealers will have (not every dealer) but the big ones that drive this business.
I think we've beaten this one to death and let the man run his business, a business which he knows much more about than others do.
Mitch
Major General
- Joined
- May 1, 2010
- Messages
- 13,519
I presume by ''some'' you mean my post about fronting up how many items are in back stock now, I don't think that is an inventory nightmare at all as many have come on here and stated they have not got lots of stock in and, this bar code thing which has surfaced is nothing to do with it.
Retrospective rules pricing whatever always causes problems and, the suggestion is an open and honest one which, may restore faith to some who seem to have lost some in the recent days.
Its also a bit naive and a US perspective that big outlets drive the hobby well I think there are quite a few smaller outlets that contribute enourmously to the vitality of the hobby thats just IMO condescending to smaller outlets.
I also find it amazing at times how much information some have in one post then state how little we know in others as was stated yesterday its only 356 products and its not a huge amount.
I also do not see many sets from as far back as 2005 many of these are from 2007/8 and, indeed are ready for disco. The ''drum beat'' always gets brought out when people do not want debate in any form to continue but, this has been quite an important point for many collectors and if they feel they wish to continue surely, that is their right? I have not seen much K&C knocking in the last few posts.
Mitch
Retrospective rules pricing whatever always causes problems and, the suggestion is an open and honest one which, may restore faith to some who seem to have lost some in the recent days.
Its also a bit naive and a US perspective that big outlets drive the hobby well I think there are quite a few smaller outlets that contribute enourmously to the vitality of the hobby thats just IMO condescending to smaller outlets.
I also find it amazing at times how much information some have in one post then state how little we know in others as was stated yesterday its only 356 products and its not a huge amount.
I also do not see many sets from as far back as 2005 many of these are from 2007/8 and, indeed are ready for disco. The ''drum beat'' always gets brought out when people do not want debate in any form to continue but, this has been quite an important point for many collectors and if they feel they wish to continue surely, that is their right? I have not seen much K&C knocking in the last few posts.
Mitch
The Military Workshop
1st Lieutenant
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2005
- Messages
- 4,778
Hi Guys,
I am a shop as you know. Just had a walk around and I would estimate stock on hand that was first released before 2009 would represent 20-25% of what I have on display or in stock and some I have in multiples. Main areas are Naps, LAH, some ACW, SOHK, some WWII (ie Bulge and Africa) and odd bits here and there. My old Black Watch Naps I had in multiples (some as many as 10) and now I am working out who will get the last ones as something seems to have caused a rush of orders.
Regarding keeping track of pricing I know all about it. My A$ shop price changes pretty much weekly due to the exchange rate and I guess I would be the only K&C dealer in the world who has been dropping his price most of this year (in order to match US$ RRP) . I recall the customer two years ago who pointed to an item and said he wanted to the pay the price at what it was months earlier before the A$ exchange rate fell like a stone (ie. my prices went up 50% in 6 weeks - imagine that on this forum !!). He seemed to think I knew the cost of every item and knew cost each time I bought them in and could keep track of it. Sorry no can do. My case is probably different to most dealers but as the A$ has risen my stock value has gone down. US dealers have it easy as I have to get a calculator out to work out my prices !
There are still new collectors coming into this hobby and for certain items I would rather see their price rise rather than not have them to sell. The list of older cheaper items is decreasing anyway as I can see some selling out at K&C in past 48 hours. Once the list is out I expect many more to fall of the K&C stocklist as items are "culled".
Regarding the "Golden Age". Perhaps the factory owners and workers also think it is their "Golden Age" too. I guess they should have frozen their costs and wages years ago to support the wealthy foreigners indulging in their hobby.
Regards
Brett
I am a shop as you know. Just had a walk around and I would estimate stock on hand that was first released before 2009 would represent 20-25% of what I have on display or in stock and some I have in multiples. Main areas are Naps, LAH, some ACW, SOHK, some WWII (ie Bulge and Africa) and odd bits here and there. My old Black Watch Naps I had in multiples (some as many as 10) and now I am working out who will get the last ones as something seems to have caused a rush of orders.
Regarding keeping track of pricing I know all about it. My A$ shop price changes pretty much weekly due to the exchange rate and I guess I would be the only K&C dealer in the world who has been dropping his price most of this year (in order to match US$ RRP) . I recall the customer two years ago who pointed to an item and said he wanted to the pay the price at what it was months earlier before the A$ exchange rate fell like a stone (ie. my prices went up 50% in 6 weeks - imagine that on this forum !!). He seemed to think I knew the cost of every item and knew cost each time I bought them in and could keep track of it. Sorry no can do. My case is probably different to most dealers but as the A$ has risen my stock value has gone down. US dealers have it easy as I have to get a calculator out to work out my prices !
There are still new collectors coming into this hobby and for certain items I would rather see their price rise rather than not have them to sell. The list of older cheaper items is decreasing anyway as I can see some selling out at K&C in past 48 hours. Once the list is out I expect many more to fall of the K&C stocklist as items are "culled".
Regarding the "Golden Age". Perhaps the factory owners and workers also think it is their "Golden Age" too. I guess they should have frozen their costs and wages years ago to support the wealthy foreigners indulging in their hobby.
Regards
Brett