King & Country book (3 Viewers)

[theBaron]

The Britains books have retailed at close to $200, if I remember correctly how much I paid for the first one, Opie's coffee-table book. There aren't 1000 K&C collectors who would pay $200 for a book about their favorite manufacturer? Some of you shell out that much for individual figures.

I hope you do find a way to publish it, though. I don't collect K&C, but as a toy soldier collector, I would buy a book like that, as part of my general interest in the hobby.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Alexdakar]

One of the members here sent me a PM recommending that we get dealers to take pre-paid pre-orders for the book, and then once we have collected enough money to satisfy one of the quotes, go forward. I guess it would be up to the willingness of the dealers to do this, but what do you guys think of this idea?

I don't think there will be enough collectors to pre-pay $200 for a book they haven't seen that will come out many months from now. Then some might back out because they envisioned the book differently. Sorry Louis about the book deal I was really wanting a K&C book. How about some free lance person that does this kind of work and put it on a DVD. The DVD can have the book formatted with pictures and added features like photo gallery, videos, and or commentaries. Just throwing stuff out there.

 

[thebritfarmer]

The Britains books have retailed at close to $200, if I remember correctly how much I paid for the first one, Opie's coffee-table book. There aren't 1000 K&C collectors who would pay $200 for a book about their favorite manufacturer? Some of you shell out that much for individual figures.

I hope you do find a way to publish it, though. I don't collect K&C, but as a toy soldier collector, I would buy a book like that, as part of my general interest in the hobby.

Prost!
Brad

I have to agree with Brad, (no disrespect to the backers) but are they toy soldier collectors? The Opie Britains book is no longer in production and every time a copy comes up on ebay it regularly sells for $250 plus and I think if it was re-released would still sell many copies.

Have you spoken with Norman Joplin or perhaps contact James Opie to see if they can offer any advice ???

 

[Gideon]

That's a shame, I know how much work and love went into that book.

Why not start out small? Something like the Edward Force Dinky books. A little intro, some history, lower quality images with notes under them to denote what sets are above and when they were made?

I know its a profoundly dumbed down version of what you really wanted to do but as an ID/set guide it would still be invaluable and would wind up in many more hands at a potential price point of $40. After that, if you've made enough to reinvest in the coffee table book, then you could do a limited run?

 

[theBaron]

That's a shame, I know how much work and love went into that book.

Why not start out small? Something like the Edward Force Dinky books. A little intro, some history, lower quality images with notes under them to denote what sets are above and when they were made?

I know its a profoundly dumbed down version of what you really wanted to do but as an ID/set guide it would still be invaluable and would wind up in many more hands at a potential price point of $40. After that, if you've made enough to reinvest in the coffee table book, then you could do a limited run?

That's a good point, Gideon. Start with a softcover overview/price guide, a la O'Brien. See how the demand is, then try the hardcover tome that includes more of the history of K&C, with looks at the different lines, and the development from the original lines to the present.

For me, I'm more interested in details about the history of the company and its figures. I think that's the appeal to the toy soldier collectors, beyond the circle of K&C collectors.

Prosit!
Brad

 

[Louis Badolato]

Perhaps you can put up a website with a 1 dollar fee /user / month...

JP

What do you think the interest would be in this option? A website with a small users fee? I am not looking to make a profit, but I would like to see Kevin at least make back the expenses of his trips to the U.S. to do the photography.

 

[tdubel]

I am the member who posted the prepayment idea to Louis. I think that would really work. Look, we all know from the people doing this their love of the hobby and manufacturer, so I think buying this site unseen is a no brainer. It will be the Bible of K&C, that I feel confident in.

NOW, i like 2 other ideas that were posted:

1. Norman Joplins advice
2. Thor Johnson's advice Aeroart book.

I also wonder if publishing in the US would be cheaper as I saw all quotes in GBP. Goal would be to find a small publisher who can do the color. I personally know the owner of a smaller publishing house and I can float the idea to him if you want me to. He is a small publisher who does printing on demand, I bet he would at least look at this one.


Louis,

email me if you want me to post that question to my friend.

Tom

 

[Louis Badolato]

Tom,

At this point, I am open to any help I can get, so please ask your friend the publisher what it would cost. But remember, the long and the short of it is the expense of publication. For example, John Adivari (NJJA) just called me and suggested we use the website with the small user fee to raise money for publication. This might very well work. If there were, for example, a $10 fee to use the website, and 1,000 people used the site, $10,000 would be available to publish the book.

 

[tdubel]

Louis,
I have reached out to him, so I will let you know what he comes back with . He is actually based in Maryland, the press print is somewhere in the South. I am pretty sure based on what he has done in the past, he has the capability, it will most likely be a matter of finance. THe subject matter is not his area, but then again, not too sure how many publishers it would be!! He is also an author, so I know he understands the issues you face.

Worth a shot,

Tom

 

[Tony Neville]

Guys

It wont take a rocket scientist to figure that K&C UK was one of the companies looking into getting the book done.

Tom although prices were in GBP in fact we were working on getting the book doe in HK or China the prices were just a comparison.

Your publisher friend would need to see the pictures and text to be able to give you clear advice.

We have looked at Book various volumes......... formats Coffee table, small and large. We have looked at CD rom with muliti play capability (ie play on your DVD player, PC mobile player etc etc)
We have also looked at DVD which would be muliti function to show pictures mixed with text and choose and move around the DVD. This then would have had a little jotters guide for you to be able to go to shows etc and record what you have and what you want when it comes to the sets.

so from a physical format we have looked at a number of different ways. and a couple of different countries to actually manafacture the book/CD/DVD

There has been a conversation about a Website!

I would like to publically announce that this is not for want of trying on both the sponsors sides as as a friend of Louis and also a very interested collector a dealer i / we would dearly love to see the book happen.

Norman Joplin is at the London show next week and i will speak to him to see what issues he has faced.

All the best

Tony Neville
for an don behalf of K&C UK

 

[Louis Badolato]

Tony,

As I stated in my earlier post, "The former sponsors really did their homework, and looked into every imaginable option." I certainly want it made clear to everyone that Tony, Bob, and the other sponsors really workied hard to find an affordable means of bringing the book to life. I am very appreciative of their hard work and the extensive time they put into trying to bring the book to life.

As a result of their efforts, I have discovered that the Kevin's excellent photography does not lend itself to affordable publication, as (1) to appreciate the detail, the images reproduced have to be very large and (2) formatting such large photographs into a text or DVD is very expensive.

Through relating the results of the sponsor's efforts to Tom and Tom's publisher friend, it has been suggested that the text of the book be published in a good quality hardcover or trade paperback book, with the photographs put on a CD sold with the book that would be referenced by "plate number" or "photograph number" and viewed on a computer while the paragraph of the book discussing the contents of the photograph is being read. This combination "low-tech" and "high-tech" solution, eliminating the need for the expensive formatting to either print these large photographs in a book or link the text to the photograph in a DVD, might render the project more affordable.

Further, as Tony mentioned, the sponsors did offer to put the book online as a free website. However, (1) since the authors and photographer had put a great deal of time, effort and expense into the book, we wanted at least a means to generate enough money to compensate Kevin for the several thousand dollars in expenses he invested in the project and (2) we wanted a means of actually seeing the book published in book or CD form.

If collectors would not mind paying a small fee for access to such a website, on the understanding that the money will only (1) first compensate Kevin for his expenses and (2) then be used towards publication of the information on the website in book/CD form, perhaps the project would be do-able.

As I final note, we are seriously considering breaking the book down into three books, to be published consecutively over time. First, since WWII is the backbone of K&C's success, a book on all K&C WWII products. That book could probably be kept to 200 pages of text, and somewhere in the range of 300-400 photographs on an attached CD.

If that book generates enough interest to continue, a second, shorter book on all non-WWII glossy production from 1984 through 1996. No more than 100-150 pages of text and perhaps 100-200 photographs.

Finally, again interest permitting, a third, longer book on all non-WWII matt production. This would be a large book, with 200+ pages of text, and in excess of 400 photographs.

Again, smaller books with fewer photographs would presumably be less expensive to initially publish, and the money from each round of publication could be used to fund the next round.

 

[panda1gen]

The sheer scale of this project might suit a subscription website best. My photos alone, with one per set or group of sets, are already many GB.

A Coffee Table Book would be cool though.

This for example is just 15% size.

 

[tdubel]

Y'all just needed to get a number cruncher involved to combat the costs

Seriously,

We may get lucky next week as my friend is a small publisher with print on demand ability and full scale print run ability. I personally think that the entire book can be done text only for reasonable as from what I have seen, the format will work.

The pictures as have been stated are the toughie, but I am hopeful that far more creative minds than mine will be able to figure that one.

TD

 

[jazzeum]

Here is my two cents and if I offend anyone such as Louis, Hans, Larry and Kevin in so saying, you have my sincerest apologies.

Book Text. Louis has on occasion provided sections of the book with respect to a particular figure. I think it might be possible to cut down the cost if you cut down the text and I think it's more than really necessary. I think what collectors are looking for what is the figure, what is the figure set number and the date first issued. That is what I use the brochures for. If the way the book has been drafted is the way it's been done with other like books, then I withdraw the comment. I had offered my services to help with the editing since as a contracts attorney that's what I do all day long and I believe I'm a pretty good writer. My offer was not taken up but the offer still stands if the authors would like me to help out.

Photos. Kevin's photos are amazing as I helped one day with setting things up for his photoraphy. However, many of them are dioramalike and I'm not sure if that works with a book like this where collectors probably just want, as mentioned above, set name, set number and date of issuance. I think what may be best is how they appear in the brochures: just the photo of the set. Perhaps the photos in the brochures can be used for the book, with Andy's permission.

Again, if I have offended anybody, you have my sincerest apologies as my only intent is to see the book published.

 

[Gideon]

Here is my two cents and if I offend anyone such as Louis, Hans, Larry and Kevin in so saying, you have my sincerest apologies.

Book Text. Louis has on occasion provided sections of the book with respect to a particular figure. I think it might be possible to cut down the cost if you cut down the text and I think it's more than really necessary. I think what collectors are looking for what is the figure, what is the figure set number and the date first issued. That is what I use the brochures for. If the way the book has been drafted is the way it's been done with other like books, then I withdraw the comment. I had offered my services to help with the editing since as a contracts attorney that's what I do all day long and I believe I'm a pretty good writer. My offer was not taken up but the offer still stands if the authors would like me to help out.

Photos. Kevin's photos are amazing as I helped one day with setting things up for his photoraphy. However, many of them are dioramalike and I'm not sure if that works with a book like this where collectors probably just want, as mentioned above, set name, set number and date of issuance. I think what may be best is how they appear in the brochures: just the photo of the set. Perhaps the photos in the brochures can be used for the book, with Andy's permission.

Again, if I have offended anybody, you have my sincerest apologies as my only intent is to see the book published.

If you look through the Britains book(s) and the Norman Joplin material, you will see some dio type photos but the books are mainly figures on shelves or sets in single photos with fairly detailed descriptions.

The Louis, Larry and Hans book is quite different - more like a narrative of a companys history and figures - not so much a guide.

There is a place for both but I think to start out small, the book would have to be "guide-like".

 

[hhenry]

Guys
Norman Joplin is at the London show next week and i will speak to him to see what issues he has faced.
Tony Neville
for an don behalf of K&C UK

Good idea to talk to Norman Joplin since he's just finished his latest Britains book. Was Cavendish or Schiffer publishers contacted directly?

Hope it works out, since I collect all such books.

 

[Tony Neville]

Hhenry definatly will.

he is going to have a draft copy for me to see soi i can again see what format these such books get done.

Louis.

No taken offence at all mate. As per our e-mails i know you understand. Just wanted the TF guys know that we are one of the guys behind trying to find out hwo we could have done this. Not my place to reveal the other party!!

We would like to see it as much as the collectors

regards

Tony

 

[gk5717]

I again agree with my friend Brad.
I was mainly interested in the book as a way to identify sets, origional price, year released etc.
I personally don,t care to see dioramas as they are readily found on web sites.
As for price, I know it is more than most were expecting, but $200, I would do it if the book was a solid reference guide.
As stated before, we K&C collectors shell out over $200 for a tank, why not a book.
Gary

 

[wadepat]

Here is my two cents and if I offend anyone such as Louis, Hans, Larry and Kevin in so saying, you have my sincerest apologies.

Book Text. Louis has on occasion provided sections of the book with respect to a particular figure. I think it might be possible to cut down the cost if you cut down the text and I think it's more than really necessary. I think what collectors are looking for what is the figure, what is the figure set number and the date first issued. That is what I use the brochures for. If the way the book has been drafted is the way it's been done with other like books, then I withdraw the comment. I had offered my services to help with the editing since as a contracts attorney that's what I do all day long and I believe I'm a pretty good writer. My offer was not taken up but the offer still stands if the authors would like me to help out.

Photos. Kevin's photos are amazing as I helped one day with setting things up for his photoraphy. However, many of them are dioramalike and I'm not sure if that works with a book like this where collectors probably just want, as mentioned above, set name, set number and date of issuance. I think what may be best is how they appear in the brochures: just the photo of the set. Perhaps the photos in the brochures can be used for the book, with Andy's permission.

Again, if I have offended anybody, you have my sincerest apologies as my only intent is to see the book published.

Gentle Friends,

Speaking as a collector who is not yet totally addicted to King and Country and as one who prizes diversity, I think some of Brad's comments make sense to me. I had planned to purchase this book for my library. While diorama like photographs are stunning, I could easily give up that feature in the book. Also, my primary interest in the book is to use it as a research tool. I am less interested in the history of the King and Country Company and more interested in data. Parallelling Brad's comments, I have listed below the information I believe I would find useful:

Separate pictures of each set issued.
Set name of each set.
Set number of each set.
Where possible dates of issue and dates of retirement.
Where possible, production numbers of each set.
Where possible, retail cost at the time of issue.
An indication of gloss or matte finish.

I believe a short, objective introductory chapter on the history of King and County is appropriate and useful. However, too much time and space devoted to complimenting the company and its products, discussing personal relationships, praising creativity, focusing on the company's industry leadership, etc., etc. is both expensive and unnecessary and, consequently, not particularly useful to the average collector.

Like Brad, I mean no offense to anyone. The above is only an honest description of what I consider to be the primary information I would find useful in such a publication. I hope some relatively practical means of presenting this information to the toy soldiering public is identified.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[tdubel]

My 2 cents,

I think there is room for all kind of books on K&C and all would be welcome. I personally would like to see the history and diorama approach as much as a straight catalog/guidebook. Heck, a book has never been done on these guys, so there is room for all!

Tom