King&Country Repaints.....A Good or A Bad Idea (2 Viewers)

[PanzerAce1944]

Lately I have been wondering what the general concesus is amongst collectors and doing "repaints" of their K&C Tanks and vehicles. I have heard both sides of opinion
here and there on this topic, but like anything else doesn't the vehicle go from new to altered once the paint brush is applied. Then the fact that the very repaint may
be factory produced as a factory done variation of the previous paint scheme within a reasonable amount of time. Seems to me it would be much better to wait say for
a King&Country produced grey or winter scheme from the factory than altering a perfectly good factory made product. Once any item that is a "collectible" has been modified doesn't that deflate the value ??? YES it does, but I guess if the individual collector makes that decision then it becomes his or her own choice.
Seems though with King&Country's track record, they do plenty of Winter, Desert, Camo, and now the new re-appearing grey making its way to the scene with much
collector anticipation. Sooner or later it gets done at the factory anyway. Now for say a skilled hobbyist like Guy from Belgium I can understand his reason for some
of his work as it is among the best as he is quite good at what he does. ^&cool

 

[vividgraphx]

Unless you plan on selling it later i say repainting is fine. Especially if its changing it to grey! Keith

 

[Mitch]

Interesting topic. I would disagree with you about the premise that they will get done eventually. There are plenty of versions of things that have been done on here by a number of the repainters that will never be done. Its also down to the individual collector what he or, she wishes to do with their items. Andy has said that he will never get around to producing all of the items that collectors want from specific AFV's to specific units. so, in come people who do this stuff or, collectors who have a bash themselves. Its simple to replace unit markings on figures and have a specific unit say, ones father or grandfather served in. I have repainted a spit in the markings that my grandfather flew in in WWII. I know for a fact that Andy or, any other maker would not do that design so, now I have one.

I know a few who are getting various things repainted that will never be released also so, this means the collectors are happy as they have bespoke items for their collections.

It also depends on how one looks at these releases. I care little for their after value and don't run my buys with the keep it mint and it will be more valuable in the end idea. One only has to look at e-bay to see the days when most K&C or any maker went for very high money are over. Some do but, not all and, if thats their primary concern then they will never have specific units etc in their collection as thats not what they collect for. I also have seen repaints sell for more than the actual value of an item which, means people are happy with what they see. I suppose, its down to who does them and, if a collector wants them.

Long gone on here are the days when PM's were sent from heads stuck in the sand type collectors who stated that sets were being butchered by the repainters. most are now more open minded and aware of what they want historically and, that there are a number of very talented people who will do these things for them in the hobby.
Mitch

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Unless you plan on selling it later i say repainting is fine. Especially if its changing it to grey! Keith

Yes, I agree with you. A customised rendition done for specific individual preference is a great thing, but say you want to get rid of it for a change in your collection, or
as many of us do swap things out from time to time. Sell X to buy Y to prevent spending out of pocket as a lot of collectors do these days then the repaint may bite
you in the long run. I am anticipating that a grey tiger will soon show its face ala King&Country style. Will be interesting to see what surfaces ^&confuse

 

[Larry Allen]

I am in Mitch's corner on this one, it is up to the individual what to do with their collection.

However, I do disagee with one sentence in PA's original post ... "Once any item that is a "collectible" has been modified doesn't that deflate the value ??? YES it does, but I guess if the individual collector makes that decision then it becomes his or her own choice."

Granted if item is re-worked poorly then the value would decrease, but with all of the superior work that I have seen here, they become ONE-OF-A-KIND, unique and professional piece. The value goes UP because where are you going to find that in the market space??? Does this "altering" include something very tiny like adding gloss to boots that were flat; or possibly changing an arm insiginia or marking?

I have wanted to re-paint the bases of my figures to match the terrain that they will be standing on. Does that also hurt the value?

As does Mitch, I seldom consider the "resale" value of the item. Maybe if the price is SOOOOOOOOO high that it will put a hold on other sets that I want to acquire, but generally if it is reasonable and I need it I will go after it. (Funny thing though the shipping costs from "FAR AWAY" will stop me from buying, ... just me I guess.)

For me bottom line is ... If people are looking for an investment then maybe Stocks, Land, Gold, Silver or Pork Bellies are a better way to go. IF you collect toy soldiers than have fun and make THEM YOURS.

Larry

 

[Guy]

Everybody should know by now that I want my figures and AFV's to look as realistic as possible. For me practically all of the tanks ( and figures) that are produced are too clean and give me the impression that they come straight from the paint shop or the tailor. For example: Most of the white winter versions look like they went straight through a flower mill. If you look at photographs you will see that in reality they looked completely different.Winter camo was mostly applied in the field and vehicles were far from snow white but more like pale grey with a white accent here and there.( certainly after a few days in the field) When I repainted the TG SdKfz 253 winter version, Tom said he wanted his model to look exactly like that but that it was too expensive to have it done in such a way when produced.The wear and tear which you normally find on a tank or a truck or an armored vehicle will never be done by the TS manufacturers for economical reasons .
That is one of the reasons why I always repaint my figs and vehicles when I use them in a dio. They have to blend in with the scenery and they have to look as realistic as possible , dirty, dusty, rusty, etc ...;
When a paint job is well executed I am convinced that it does not decrease the value of the item, on the contrary, you then have a unique model which nobody else possesses .
guy

 

[Mitch]

Larry...

I would think that repainting the bases would do little to affect the value of the figure sets and that you should do them to match what you want. I fully agree that if you want investments then stocks and shares or gold etc should be the options.
Mitch

I am in Mitch's corner on this one, it is up to the individual what to do with their collection.

However, I do disagee with one sentence in PA's original post ... "Once any item that is a "collectible" has been modified doesn't that deflate the value ??? YES it does, but I guess if the individual collector makes that decision then it becomes his or her own choice."

Granted if item is re-worked poorly then the value would decrease, but with all of the superior work that I have seen here, they become ONE-OF-A-KIND, unique and professional piece. The value goes UP because where are you going to find that in the market space??? Does this "altering" include something very tiny like adding gloss to boots that were flat; or possibly changing an arm insiginia or marking?

I have wanted to re-paint the bases of my figures to match the terrain that they will be standing on. Does that also hurt the value?

As does Mitch, I seldom consider the "resale" value of the item. Maybe if the price is SOOOOOOOOO high that it will put a hold on other sets that I want to acquire, but generally if it is reasonable and I need it I will go after it. (Funny thing though the shipping costs from "FAR AWAY" will stop me from buying, ... just me I guess.)

For me bottom line is ... If people are looking for an investment then maybe Stocks, Land, Gold, Silver or Pork Bellies are a better way to go. IF you collect toy soldiers than have fun and make THEM YOURS.

Larry

 

[braddinpa]

I agree with Mitch. For me I collect because I enjoy it. I don't care about resale and profit. I care about enjoyment. If I can repaint or someone can repaint something that I like. I say, what the heck. Go for it. I have seen many fine repaints by Mitch and Guy that look awesome! Brad

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I am in Mitch's corner on this one, it is up to the individual what to do with their collection.

However, I do disagee with one sentence in PA's original post ... "Once any item that is a "collectible" has been modified doesn't that deflate the value ??? YES it does, but I guess if the individual collector makes that decision then it becomes his or her own choice."

Granted if item is re-worked poorly then the value would decrease, but with all of the superior work that I have seen here, they become ONE-OF-A-KIND, unique and professional piece. The value goes UP because where are you going to find that in the market space??? Does this "altering" include something very tiny like adding gloss to boots that were flat; or possibly changing an arm insiginia or marking?

I have wanted to re-paint the bases of my figures to match the terrain that they will be standing on. Does that also hurt the value?

As does Mitch, I seldom consider the "resale" value of the item. Maybe if the price is SOOOOOOOOO high that it will put a hold on other sets that I want to acquire, but generally if it is reasonable and I need it I will go after it. (Funny thing though the shipping costs from "FAR AWAY" will stop me from buying, ... just me I guess.)

For me bottom line is ... If people are looking for an investment then maybe Stocks, Land, Gold, Silver or Pork Bellies are a better way to go. IF you collect toy soldiers than have fun and make THEM YOURS.

Larry

For many people these days, paying $225.00 on up for a tank model is not a drop in the bucket, as it is not for me anyway. I am not suggesting "investment" here
but in the past I personally have gotten rid of one vehicle for whatever reason......loss of interest, new collecting interest, etc to buy another or at least help pay
for the majority of the new purchase. I agree whole heartedly if its yours, do what you want with it. There are classes online for do it your selfers seeking to paint
their models themselves,thus involving some own personal hobby time for the individual. May eliminate the high shipping costs and risk of damage during transit.
Go to "Google" or "youtube" and type in the topic say.......Winterize painting a Tiger Tank and you would be surprised the results that pop up.
Then of course the flip side of the coin may be.....some are just not inclined to do the work themselves. I saw at a local hobby shop last week a complete armored
vehicle winterize painting set with everything needed for the "do it yourselfer" for under $40.00.....brushes included with user guide and plenty of material to do
a good 5 repaints. Just a topic of discussion here guys,the title does read pro or con. Without topics, views or discussions we have no forum !

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I agree with Mitch. For me I collect because I enjoy it. I don't care about resale and profit. I care about enjoyment. If I can repaint or someone can repaint something that I like. I say, what the heck. Go for it. I have seen many fine repaints by Mitch and Guy that look awesome! Brad

The term I collect because I enjoy it is the core of what this hobby is all about. Couldn't have a better purpose than that :salute::

 

[Mitch]

You did reword your original post though to align it with the notion that you seem to believe or, be making the point that they are, once repainted, somehow devalued. I would think that a great number of people like Wayne and Howard to name just a few would disagree but, that is your opinion. as I said thats down to each collector. I have offered a lot of painting, diorama and scratch building advice to many people on her who have contacted me and always happy to do so including many threads on how to build everything from trees to desert wells and buildings.

Many just cannot do this type of thing and, although I think everyone should give it a try many will never be able to do it. Thats why hobbies like this are popular because people cannot build or paint kits so, the next best thing is to buy pre built and pre painted. The progression is then to build units in size that they want. Like Wayne and his tunisian tigers all with different serial numbers. Thats however, not what you asked it was whether its a good or bad thing and, the simple answer is its down to the individual collector.
Mitch

For many people these days, paying $225.00 on up for a tank model is not a drop in the bucket, as it is not for me anyway. I am not suggesting "investment" here
but in the past I personally have gotten rid of one vehicle for whatever reason......loss of interest, new collecting interest, etc to buy another or at least help pay
for the majority of the new purchase. I agree whole heartedly if its yours, do what you want with it. There are classes online for do it your selfers seeking to paint
their models themselves,thus involving some own personal hobby time for the individual. May eliminate the high shipping costs and risk of damage during transit.
Go to "Google" or "youtube" and type in the topic say.......Winterize painting a Tiger Tank and you would be surprised the results that pop up.
Then of course the flip side of the coin may be.....some are just not inclined to do the work themselves. I saw at a local hobby shop last week a complete armored
vehicle winterize painting set with everything needed for the "do it yourselfer" for under $40.00.....brushes included with user guide and plenty of material to do
a good 5 repaints. Just a topic of discussion here guys,the title does read pro or con. Without topics, views or discussions we have no forum !

 

[theBaron]

I agree with Mitch. For me I collect because I enjoy it. I don't care about resale and profit. I care about enjoyment. If I can repaint or someone can repaint something that I like. I say, what the heck. Go for it. I have seen many fine repaints by Mitch and Guy that look awesome! Brad

Two out of two Brads in PA agree

Prost!
Brad

 

[PanzerAce1944]

You did reword your original post though to align it with the notion that you seem to believe or, be making the point that they are, once repainted, somehow devalued. I would think that a great number of people like Wayne and Howard to name just a few would disagree but, that is your opinion. as I said thats down to each collector. I have offered a lot of painting, diorama and scratch building advice to many people on her who have contacted me and always happy to do so including many threads on how to build everything from trees to desert wells and buildings.

Many just cannot do this type of thing and, although I think everyone should give it a try many will never be able to do it. Thats why hobbies like this are popular because people cannot build or paint kits so, the next best thing is to buy pre built and pre painted. The progression is then to build units in size that they want. Like Wayne and his tunisian tigers all with different serial numbers. Thats however, not what you asked it was whether its a good or bad thing and, the simple answer is its down to the individual collector.
Mitch

There is no arguing that point, down to each and every individual. I have heard the topic brought up at shows,collector gatherings, etc and have heard from all sides of the spectrum. Just a talking point for conversation. A lot of good points brought up. No Lo contendo . Now..........about forthcoming dispatches ^&grin

 

[TomNT]

I agree with Mitch and Guy on this topic as i believe repainting vehicles can enhance the vehicle's appearance and also increase it's value. Another thing to consider and this has also been mentioned in this thread is that some vehicles will never be made in a certain colour/theatre of war ect. So if a collector wants a vehicle but not in it's original factory colour then the only option he or she has is to get it repainted. This happened in my case as i saw a repaint in AK colours of a SdKfz 9 Famo Recovery Vehicle and i instantly wanted one. Obee (john) did the first Famo repaint for Howard and was happy to do one for me as well. I would never have purchased this vehicle if i did not get it repainted so it's a win for me as well as Obee, the dealer that sold it to me and also K&C as they all get a sale that they would otherwise not have gotten.

Tom

 

[Shyguy151]

I have no issue with repainted or modifications. I repainted two King Tigers for late Normandy, and would be happy to post pictures. They match the ambush scheme, and I took some heavily damaged figures from some other K&C vehicles and made some custom figures to go with them. Part of this hobby is the creativity and if you look at Gordon"s title at K&C he is the creative director. It makes perfect sense and as far as value goes it is worth what somebody will pay. Manufacturers cannot produce all vehicle schemes, I would not mind seeing some in the white so to speak in partial kit form from K&C and others that could be custom painted from the gitgo. I personally would pay more and wait to get custom painted items from manufacturers if they offered it.

 

[OzDigger]

Simple really, it's a good idea if you intend to keep the item as you may gain more enjoyment having it in a coloration you like. But not a good idea if you intend to sell the item as repaints of any collectible rarely achieve the sale price of items in original condition.

 

[wayne556517]

Not a good idea IMO its a brilliant idea,you get what you want i highly recommend it.

 

[Rob]

The great thing about freedom of choice is that you can all do exactly as you please, nobody to say its wrong or right. Over the years we've seen some stunning paint jobs on a whole host of subjects that really demonstrate the skill these people have. Myself I don't have repaints as I guess I'm a purist at heart and consider once another coat of paint is applied its no longer a K&C item, but that's my choice and I still really admire the skill involved in repainting these vehicles {bravo}}

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob....

Heaven forbid it happens but, your sets fall from a shelf and break. tears, anger, kick the cat etc etc would you bin these sets and try and buy new again or, would you get them fixed?

I appreciate your anwser and accept the way you rate K&C. just interested
Mitch

The great thing about freedom of choice is that you can all do exactly as you please, nobody to say its wrong or right. Over the years we've seen some stunning paint jobs on a whole host of subjects that really demonstrate the skill these people have. Myself I don't have repaints as I guess I'm a purist at heart and consider once another coat of paint is applied its no longer a K&C item, but that's my choice and I still really admire the skill involved in repainting these vehicles {bravo}}

Rob

 

[Shyguy151]

Here is something to consider all the way around. Manufacterer's do it all the time. A number will take requests on special sets. Traditions was always willing to accommodate custom paint jobs. If you look at the K&C dioramas some of them are custom paint jobs. I wish I could figure out how to post pictures because if you look at my latest winter Tiger I made from the K&C Normandy Tiger and I told you it was a demo from K&C (not that I would), you would be hard pressed to doubt it. There are some very good painters and people who can do modifications that would blow you away with their skill. That goes for repairs too. The only difference as far as painting or repainting is the quality of the artist. These are all hand painted figures. The vehicles are just castings. It took me almost a year to finish the Tiger due to some family health issues, but it was well with worth it and goes well with the two winter Panthers I did last year. I did a winter King Tiger and it was a custom job and it sold for over $500 the first time and over $700 the second time and it was never represented to be anything but what it was. The custom dioramas at the Chicago show go for big money. They are custom one offs. I agree with Mitch in the fact I am not running out to buy sets because of a small scratch. If you send them back to the manufacturer a number of them will touch then up inhouse and resell them. The real question is not painting or repainting but the quality and the skill of the person doing it. I love buying damaged items and redoing them.